Bad slice - possible its the driver?

[nvestn]

Hi guys - amateur golfer here in Eastern Canada. I have been playing and practicing a lot this summer and am doing fine except for my driver... I had a cheap Dunlop driver when I started golfing and don't recall ever having a slice in my drives, though I didn't play much. This year I bought an Adams 9064LS with DFS off of eBay as a demo... was in perfect shape, no use on it. All year I've been struggling with the meanest slice you can imagine. I thought something in my swing had changed and kept working on my drills. I tried everything : strengthening my grip, addressing with the club face closed, working on an inside out swing, etc. Nothing worked... ridiculous slices with maybe 2 out of 5 drives being playable. Twice this year I've gone to Golftown (our version of Golfsmith in Canada) and drove some balls on their simulators. Both times I was hitting nice, straight drives. Today I spent the afternoon outside hitting nothing but slices with my Adams and tonight on the simulator hitting a Nike Covert and Ping G25 I was hitting straight or slight draws. Shot 53 drives and not a single one was more than 5 yards right of center line... Is it possible there is something wrong with my driver? I always use stiff shafts and the simulator was telling me that I'm either swinging straight or slight inside out... usually club face was slightly closed or square... nothing to indicate a slice... I know the answer is to try another driver on the range or course, but I can't make it out to either for another 2 weeks so I'm anxious to see if it's even possible my driver is the culprit...

[KinG-NothinG]

Sounds like a possible shaft problem.

Have you been able to test your Adams driver in a simulator as well or was it just the Ping and Nike drivers that showed that you're swinging straight? It could be that the stiff shaft on your Adams is to stiff for you (stiff in different manufacturers shafts isn't the same thing) and that's what creating the slices.

That the driver head itself would be the problem in this case seems a little farfetched - I've never seen nor heard of a club head being the reason for it.

[nvestn]

Thanks!

No, I have not hit my Adams in the simulator. I will bring it next time to see what's up.

I have just noticed that on my Adams, it is set at 45.5" length (it has the distance fitting system, meaning you can shorten to 45", go standard at 45.5" and extend to 46" with spacers). Mine is set at standard length but the weight on the bottom is the one that goes with the shortened shaft length. The DFS manual says there is a removable weight that goes with each swing length to maintain a D3 swing weight. I do not have the other weights in the kit (damn eBay).

Could having the shortened weight on a standard length setting be causing some issues? I can't see it making that much difference but I am grasping at straws here...

[KinG-NothinG]

I'm not familiar with any of Adams drivers so I can't say to much about it. Can you set the length yourself without to much hassle?

Cause first tip would then be to set it to 45" and see if it helps - its placement could possibly be doing something weird for you but thats no certainty. Anyway you'd probably enjoy the difference of a 45" instead of a 45.5".

[gojo]

Not sure it'll be of help to you, but I just thought I'd chip in with the information that despite playing since I was 5, I've always sliced drivers.  To this day, I cannot hit a driver in a straight line.

I can hit a 3 Wood straight as a dye, but something about drivers has always eluded my control.

The only exception was when I was a teenager, a pal at my club had a driver with an offset head.  I could hit that straight the few times I tried it, but being at school at the time meant I had no money to buy one myself.  I've never bothered since.  Fortunately I can hit a 3 Wood for miles, so it's never been that big a deal.

So I suppose if I was to sum this up in one tip, it would be: try an offset driver.

[dbuck]

I believe that driver is adjustable for face angle and loft. Is it possible that you have the face adjusted to the open position?

[mdl]

I'm no equipment hound, but my experience with simulators is that I look like a MUCH better golfer on them than I do in real life.  Like 10-30 yards bigger hitter and significantly smaller dispersion cone than in real life.  And if you had the driver fit so it's not something like a senior flex shaft when you need a stiff shaft with a different kick, I'm inclined to say that you most likely just have a different swing in practice swings and on the simulator than on the course.

Not to say that the driver couldn't be contributing, it obviously could.  But I've never heard of anyone going from wicked slice to baby draw hitter just from going from one fitted driver to a different fitted driver.

I think the clear next move is hitting your driver on the simulator.  I hope I'm wrong and the simulator also says you're hitting a wicked slice with your driver and baby draws with something else, but I'd be surprised.

[luu5]

I believe that driver is adjustable for face angle and loft. Is it possible that you have the face adjusted to the open position?

And he would not have noticed the face being open when addressing the ball? He said he tried addressing with closed face and strong grip etc.

Just move the ball back in stance and take strong grip, hooks will come, if you hit from inside out.

[clearwaterms]

Is your handicap accurate (30)?  It is likely a swing fault.  The Dunlop might have masked it somehow.  A slice is a result of an out to in swing path (casting, coming over the top, etc)  In my swing I have found multiple causes and it took a long time to finally get it straightened out, and while I don't have it fixed all the time, I am finally moving in the right direction.

Equipment will help to tune / refine your game, but a nasty slice (the kind that ends up across the NEXT fairway) isn't going to be fixed by equipment.  You might find something that does a good enough job masking it that that game is still fun, but an over the top motion is likely robbing you of power and causing you to expel energy on creating excessive side spin on the ball instead of putting that energy into directing the ball further down the fairway.

As for the simulator, others have said it, Simulators are designed to sell you golf clubs and the best way to sell somebody a new "thing" is make that person believe it is better than his old "thing".

[nvestn]

Is your handicap accurate (30)?  It is likely a swing fault.  The Dunlop might have masked it somehow.  A slice is a result of an out to in swing path (casting, coming over the top, etc)  In my swing I have found multiple causes and it took a long time to finally get it straightened out, and while I don't have it fixed all the time, I am finally moving in the right direction.

Equipment will help to tune / refine your game, but a nasty slice (the kind that ends up across the NEXT fairway) isn't going to be fixed by equipment.  You might find something that does a good enough job masking it that that game is still fun, but an over the top motion is likely robbing you of power and causing you to expel energy on creating excessive side spin on the ball instead of putting that energy into directing the ball further down the fairway.

As for the simulator, others have said it, Simulators are designed to sell you golf clubs and the best way to sell somebody a new "thing" is make that person believe it is better than his old "thing".

Thanks everyone for the posts... I agree that there is definitely an inconsistency issue in my swing - no doubt about it. I was just so puzzled by the simulator telling me that I should be hitting baby draws when the only other data I have using my own driver is massive straight slices or sometimes push slices...

Even worse is the simulator telling me in exact technical detail that my clubface was slightly closed or square and that my swing path was either straight or in to out - both things that should be promoting draws or hooks - not the other extreme. Had I only hit a few balls in the simulator I could accept that it was luck - but I hit 50+ in a row and they were all straight or baby draw...

Do you guys really think an establishment like GolfTown would "cheat" their simulators into saying incorrect information to help sell golf clubs?

[nvestn]

I believe that driver is adjustable for face angle and loft. Is it possible that you have the face adjusted to the open position?

I have tried it at standard and +1 setting - which means +1 degree loft and 1 degree closed clubface. I did notice a small difference but definitely not enough to fix the slice - lol!

[mvmac]

These drills may help

http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread/90#post_846019

[slightlymad]

When i started to plkay again i also sliced my driver hard. I didnt understand it because my irons were crazy straight. If you delve a bit deeper you will see that its something in your swing that makes you slice, even thoough it looks and feels like you are swinging straight.

Maybe its an idea to post a video with your driver swing. That way we can help you help whatever it is that causes you to slice. I know i have benefited from posting video immensely.

[nvestn]

Thanks so much guys - I think I have found the underlying issue. I was hearing everyone talk about "release the clubhead". I thought I was, but today on the range I tried making a conscious effort of releasing my wrists at impact and like magic I'm hitting straight at my target now. Not a single slice from the moment I started making that release effort. I hit 3/4 of the bucket with this technique and was amazed. Been struggling with this all summer and it's hard to believe I found the solution. I think I cried a little at the range... lol. Hopefully I can replicate the same success at my next range session.

I also noticed a noticeable increase in distance when making the conscious effort of releasing the clubhead immediately before impact.

Thanks so much for bearing with me!

Still confused as to why the simulator was screwing with my psyche, though. That one remains unexplained for the moment.

Jeff

[clearwaterms]

Thanks so much guys - I think I have found the underlying issue. I was hearing everyone talk about "release the clubhead". I thought I was, but today on the range I tried making a conscious effort of releasing my wrists at impact and like magic I'm hitting straight at my target now. Not a single slice from the moment I started making that release effort. I hit 3/4 of the bucket with this technique and was amazed. Been struggling with this all summer and it's hard to believe I found the solution. I think I cried a little at the range... lol. Hopefully I can replicate the same success at my next range session.

Thanks so much for bearing with me!

Still confused as to why the simulator was screwing with my psyche, though. That one remains unexplained for the moment.

Jeff

Jeff,

In my experience there are 2 kinds of simulators at Golf stores.  The first is the dopler radar based.  It is a small unit that sits on the ground next to the ball.  Those are generally very accurate and usually have given me carry results that are on par with what I have found at the golf course.  Those monitors usually use a pretty accurate measurement regarding side spin and as a result are fairly accurate to represent ball flight.

The other kind, which uses cameras above the head or two laser fields that the ball passes through before hitting the screen generally don't have the ability to pick up the side spin on the ball, so they have to make alot more assumptions for ball flight.  The assumptions programmed into the machine are usually best case.  I once saw a guy program the thing with a down hill slope and a tail wind.  This of course makes it look like the ball is going to travel further.  Now he would also tell me, bring in your old club before buying a new one to compare.

So to answer your question, it is likely that the simulator you were using doesn't take side spin into effect (which is the cause of a slice)  If you were pushing the ball (starts right of the target and goes on a straight line) that "should" have been taken into effect.

The web page that I recommend you read is this one.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

It is a GREAT article written by Iacas that describes what causes a ball to do what when it is flying through the air.

Cheers

Chris

[nvestn]

Thanks Chris - very helpful! Great read :)

And yes, it was in fact one with overhead sensors...

[SoundandFury]

And he would not have noticed the face being open when addressing the ball? He said he tried addressing with closed face and strong grip etc.

Just move the ball back in stance and take strong grip, hooks will come, if you hit from inside out.

Face open at address doesn't necessarily cause the ball to curve right.  I play a draw and every time I address the ball I set the face wide open.  What matters is what the face is doing at impact.

Also, I know the accepted thought is to move the ball back in the stance to hit draws...this won't necessarily work if you have a problem squaring the club face; in fact it will likely make the slice worse.  I personally play the ball off my left instep.

[mvmac]

Face open at address doesn't necessarily cause the ball to curve right.  I play a draw and every time I address the ball I set the face wide open.  What matters is what the face is doing at impact.

Also, I know the accepted thought is to move the ball back in the stance to hit draws...this won't necessarily work if you have a problem squaring the club face; in fact it will likely make the slice worse.  I personally play the ball off my left instep.

Well, playing the ball back can help you swing more out, just the geometry of the arc.  I would not recommend it because the angle of attack will increase.  So to draw it with the driver, play the ball a ball or two in front of the left shoulder and aim the body a little right at address.

In terms of the face, you're correct, hit draws with a face aimed right of the target.  Most slicers/faders hit the ball with a face LEFT of the target and the path further left of the face.