Pregnant Student Athletes Losing Scholarships

[iacas]

Obviously the pregnant part really rubs you the wrong way.

Incorrect. Couldn't care less - it was simply the topic on a radio show and I posted on my blog about it many years ago, then when someone else commented on it I started the thread here.

1) She has found a good guy who takes care of his family and they work things out. A fairly unlikely reality.

2) She gets a part time job at Walmart and let her receive an EBT card to help her put food on the table. She gets pregnant again and the cycle continues and probably gets worse.

Huh? The student got pregnant. Why do you feel particularly sorry for her when she had incredibly big incentives NOT to get pregnant?

3) The school shows compassion for the the pregnant student and allows her to continue with her scholarship and offers her young baby child care so she can continue her studies and get a career in her field of study. She graduates and is no longer a burden on the state.

Why should they? They gave her an athletic scholarship with the understanding that she would compete for the team. The school gives her an education, she gives her athletic ability. If she deprives them of her athletic ability because of something that's 100% preventable, then the school should be under no requirement to continue to uphold their half of the contract.

True women's sports do not raise a lot of media based revenues.

You missed the point that most college SPORTS do not make money.

Yes I do realize that students have there scholarships revoked and I think it is wrong unless the student  gets involved in illegal activity.

Why? Should a student given an academic scholarship keep it if he decides partying is more fun than studying and gets Ds or Fs in his classes (i.e. he can't perform academically because of preventable choices)?

Do realize that the endowments of many of the large Universities are so large now that most students of average means are granted large scholarships?

The problem with that statement? It contains the qualifiers "large Universities" and "many." So not even ALL of the LARGE universities. What about ALL of the SMALLER and MEDIUM sized ones?

I have had done research work with a girl who went to Harvard who paid a quarter of what her sister did who went to Umass as an instate student.

So? Good for her. The cost to students is still really, really high. To pretend that kids these days are mostly getting by on scholarships and not having to pay for their college is silly and foolish.

My point is that the schools have a responsibility which they are shirking and are using there student athletes for financial gain which is wrong.

1. Student athlete and college create a contract.
2. Student fails to uphold their side of the contract.
3. College continues to pay out on the contract?

Yeah, okay…

[club ho]

Incorrect. Couldn't care less - it was simply the topic on a radio show and I posted on my blog about it many years ago, then when someone else commented on it I started the thread here.

Huh? The student got pregnant. Why do you feel particularly sorry for her when she had incredibly big incentives NOT to get pregnant?

Why should they? They gave her an athletic scholarship with the understanding that she would compete for the team. The school gives her an education, she gives her athletic ability. If she deprives them of her athletic ability because of something that's 100% preventable, then the school should be under no requirement to continue to uphold their half of the contract.

You missed the point that most college SPORTS do not make money.

Why? Should a student given an academic scholarship keep it if he decides partying is more fun than studying and gets Ds or Fs in his classes (i.e. he can't perform academically because of preventable choices)?

The problem with that statement? It contains the qualifiers "large Universities" and "many." So not even ALL of the LARGE universities. What about ALL of the SMALLER and MEDIUM sized ones?

So? Good for her. The cost to students is still really, really high. To pretend that kids these days are mostly getting by on scholarships and not having to pay for their college is silly and foolish.

Student athlete and college create a contract.

Student fails to uphold their side of the contract.

College continues to pay out on the contract?

Yeah, okay…

If a student does not perform academically to an established level than they should not receive any further scholarship. Obviously Ds and Fs would put them on academic probation and ultimately they would be kicked out of school then the scholarship argument becomes moot.

Very few scholarships cover 100 percent of the financial cost of attending college. The bulk is usually built into a combination of student loans and parental support.

Obviously we have different views on what would be the best way of resolving the problem of what to do when a student athlete who relies on a athletic scholarship to remain in school gets pregnant.

You give them the tough love approach which throws her out to fend for herself.

I look at it as a situation which doesn't happen in epidemic proportions as far as I know and can be handled by colleges at a very reduced cost that will allow the affected student to graduate and become a very productive member of society. Your approach I fear will more likely produce in the long run a greater expense to society.

[newtogolf]

If a student does not perform academically to an established level than they should not receive any further scholarship. Obviously Ds and Fs would put them on academic probation and ultimately they would be kicked out of school then the scholarship argument becomes moot.

Very few scholarships cover 100 percent of the financial cost of attending college. The bulk is usually built into a combination of student loans and parental support.

Obviously we have different fews on what would be the best way of resolving the problem of what to do when a student athlete who relies on a athletic scholarship to remain in school get pregnant.

You give them the tough love approach which throws her out to fend for herself.

I look at it as a situation which doesn't happen in epidemic proportions as far as I know and can be handled by colleges at a very reduced cost that will allow the affected student to graduate and become a very productive member of society. Your approach I fear will more likely produce in the long run a greater expense to society.

Female athletes on scholarship should ensure they don't get pregnant.  It's very simple, if you don't want to risk your scholarship, don't have sex.

[David in FL]

You give them the tough love approach which throws her out to fend for herself.

1. You hire me to mow your lawn. (We enter into a contract where I'm given compensation in return for services you find of value)

2. I decide to try to ride my daughter's skateboard and fall and bust my ass, rendering me unable to mow your lawn for the next 9 months. (I engage in an activity that I know could result in my being unable to fulfill my obligation to you)

3. As a result, you hire someone else to mow your lawn. (Because I'm no longer available to fulfill my obligation, you are forced to find a replacement and compensate them)

4. Do you continue to pay me too? (Do you pay us both, or am I responsible for the consequences of my own actions?)

This is simple stuff.  Actions have consequences and individuals are responsible for those consequences, whether they were intentional or not.

I look at it as a situation which doesn't happen in epidemic proportions as far as I know and can be handled by colleges at a very reduced cost that will allow the affected student to graduate and become a very productive member of society. Your approach I fear will more likely produce in the long run a greater expense to society.

Is your contention really that just because someone lost a field hockey scholarship, they're now destined to become a burden on society?  Even assuming she's now unable to attend college, do you really believe that someone who does not attend college for whatever reason is so destined?

[iacas]

If a student does not perform academically to an established level than they should not receive any further scholarship. Obviously Ds and Fs would put them on academic probation and ultimately they would be kicked out of school then the scholarship argument becomes moot.

Uhm… I guess the point of that question was lost on you. It's almost the same thing. The student makes a choice, cannot uphold their end of the contract, and the school revokes the contract.

Very few scholarships cover 100 percent of the financial cost of attending college. The bulk is usually built into a combination of student loans and parental support.

Irrelevant to the discussion.

Obviously we have different views on what would be the best way of resolving the problem of what to do when a student athlete who relies on a athletic scholarship to remain in school gets pregnant.

They'll have to figure it out like the vast majority of the other students who weren't given the gift of athleticism that could pay for their college education . Oh gee, the horror!

You give them the tough love approach which throws her out to fend for herself.

Like the vast majority of other students who have to pay for their own college education? Because of a choice SHE made when well aware of the possible outcome (pregnancy)??? Again, I say, the horror!

You apparently see the women out there as victims.

I look at it as a situation which doesn't happen in epidemic proportions as far as I know and can be handled by colleges at a very reduced cost that will allow the affected student to graduate and become a very productive member of society. Your approach I fear will more likely produce in the long run a greater expense to society.

Oh brother. The scholarship can still be awarded to another student. And the average college athlete has a median household income (their family) that's higher than the average college student (it typically takes a lot of money to support a great athlete and to help them continue to be great), so they're likely better able to fund their continued education if they're so STUPID as to make a choice which invalidates their contract.

Female athletes on scholarship should ensure they don't get pregnant.  It's very simple, if you don't want to risk your scholarship, don't have sex.

QFT.

[14ledo81]

Well, its obvious the large, evil universitites are intentionally victimizing the poor, defenseless women.  After all, everyone is entitled to an education....

[club ho]

1. You hire me to mow your lawn. (We enter into a contract where I'm given compensation in return for services you find of value)

2. I decide to try to ride my daughter's skateboard and fall and bust my ass, rendering me unable to mow your lawn for the next 9 months. (I engage in an activity that I know could result in my being unable to fulfill my obligation to you)

3. As a result, you hire someone else to mow your lawn. (Because I'm no longer available to fulfill my obligation, you are forced to find a replacement and compensate them)

4. Do you continue to pay me too? (Do you pay us both, or am I responsible for the consequences of my own actions?)

This is simple stuff.  Actions have consequences and individuals are responsible for those consequences, whether they were intentional or not.

Is your contention really that just because someone lost a field hockey scholarship, they're now destined to become a burden on society?  Even assuming she's now unable to attend college, do you really believe that someone who does not attend college for whatever reason is so destined?

The point I am making is how to best handle a situation where a student who relies on that scholarship to be able to continue with there education in the case of a pregnant female athlete.

My contention assuming that this athlete is not from the aristocratic families that you infer all athletes come from but from very modest means where she has to raise her family on her own. Again this is by  no means an epidemic in college though it is in high school (an argument for another day). I believe that the best solution would be to find a way for the affected woman to continue to get her education so as to make her a productive member of society rather than risk letting her fall into a potential welfare situation. And yes woman often are victims under these circumstances which ultimately cost everyone if not properly handled.

[David in FL]

The point I am making is how to best handle a situation where a student who relies on that scholarship to be able to continue with there education in the case of a pregnant female athlete.

My contention assuming that this athlete is not from the aristocratic families that you infer all athletes come from but from very modest means where she has to raise her family on her own. Again this is by  no means an epidemic in college though it is in high school (an argument for another day). I believe that the best solution would be to find a way for the affected woman to continue to get her education so as to make her a productive member of society rather than risk letting her fall into a potential welfare situation. And yes woman often are victims under these circumstances which ultimately cost everyone if not properly handled.

Where did I say anything about her socioeconomic background?!

Regardless, she does what EVERYONE else does, pays for her education......heck, maybe even get a JOB to do so?  Just like I did and just about everyone else I know.  Or don't go to college.  I disagree with your apparent premise that anyone that doesn't attend college is destined for welfare.  Now that's an elitist attitude!

And I'm still waiting to hear.......are you gonna continue to pay me for not mowing your lawn?

[rehmwa]

Is this your position for a woman breaking contract on an athletic scholarship specifically?  or is this just your position in general - "anyone in a bad situation should get free schooling"

it would lend light on your position and the discussion.  (i.e., are you talking the thread topic vs just a general socio-political position).

Your position is to trade this athletic scholarship for charity.  That's a completely different thing than just "continuing the existing scholarship".  For accuracy's sake, let's define it correctly and discuss those merits vs not.

IMO - the "scholarship"  (but there is NO aspect of scholarly achievement as criteria for this money/benefit - so the semantics is already all screwed up.  we also mischaracterize charity as scholarship too frequently also.) is invalid while she cannot compete or train - she's failing to meet the terms of the contract.  But, I do think there is a scenario to continue if she can and expects to return to training and competing (i.e., take a sabbatical and then re-enter the contract at a later date) - this would require agreement on both sides of the contract.  i.e., there has to be a payoff, and just "for the good of society" is a really weak rationalization since even better good can be done without a MUCH less generalized and weak position.

Why on earth would you prioritize giving this athlete that makes poor life decisions a free college education over anyone else?  particularly when that 'scholarship' money could go to her replacement (who deserves it more in terms of how the scholarship is defined), or, if we really want to do social engineering, give it to a smart kid instead.  (or, for that matter, why are you preferencing this girl over some random pregnant girl standing out on the street in front of the school?).

hey David - I''m price shopping for people to not mow my lawn.....what are your rates?  Do you do a good unjob?  or is your nonwork just comparable to locals?  Maybe you're work is on a non-reference website and I could read nonreviews to get an idea?  disreferences are nice too....

[Golfingdad]

Where did I say anything about her socioeconomic background?! Regardless, she does what EVERYONE else does, pays for her education......heck, maybe even get a JOB to do so?  Just like I did and just about everyone else I know.  Or don't go to college.  I disagree with your apparent premise that anyone that doesn't attend college is destined for welfare.  Now that's an elitist attitude! And I'm still waiting to hear.......are you gonna continue to pay me for not mowing your lawn?

I would! (Assuming you could arrange a round of golf for me with Gmac. ;)

[David in FL]

Is this your position for a woman breaking contract on an athletic scholarship specifically?  or is this just your position in general - "anyone in a bad situation should get free schooling"

it would lend light on your position and the discussion.  (i.e., are you talking the thread topic vs just a general socio-political position).

Your position is to trade this athletic scholarship for charity.  That's a completely different thing than just "continuing the existing scholarship".  For accuracy's sake, let's define it correctly and discuss those merits vs not.

IMO - the "scholarship"  (but there is NO aspect of scholarly achievement as criteria for this money/benefit - so the semantics is already all screwed up.  we also mischaracterize charity as scholarship too frequently also.) is invalid while she cannot compete or train - she's failing to meet the terms of the contract.  But, I do think there is a scenario to continue if she can and expects to return to training and competing (i.e., take a sabbatical and then re-enter the contract at a later date) - this would require agreement on both sides of the contract.  i.e., there has to be a payoff, and just "for the good of society" is a really weak rationalization since even better good can be done without a MUCH less generalized and weak position.

Why on earth would you prioritize giving this athlete that makes poor life decisions a free college education over anyone else?  particularly when that 'scholarship' money could go to her replacement (who deserves it more in terms of how the scholarship is defined), or, if we really want to do social engineering, give it to a smart kid instead.  (or, for that matter, why are you preferencing this girl over some random pregnant girl standing out on the street in front of the school?).

hey David - I''m price shopping for people to not mow my lawn.....what are your rates?  Do you do a good unjob?  or is your nonwork just comparable to locals?  Maybe you're work is on a non-reference website and I could read nonreviews to get an idea?  disreferences are nice too....

Well that depends.  Do you want the rate I charge for actually showing up to do the work, or the rate I charge to sit home and let you hire someone else to do the job that you're paying me to do?

And yep, I do a GREAT unjob.  Much better than the locals!

[club ho]

Where did I say anything about her socioeconomic background?!

Regardless, she does what EVERYONE else does, pays for her education......heck, maybe even get a JOB to do so?  Just like I did and just about everyone else I know.  Or don't go to college.  I disagree with your apparent premise that anyone that doesn't attend college is destined for welfare.  Now that's an elitist attitude!

And I'm still waiting to hear.......are you gonna continue to pay me for not mowing your lawn?

Sorry I pulled down the wrong post it was IACAS who suggested that the athletes come from well to do families.

My premise is not that everyone  who does not go to college is destined for welfare. It is a tough position for a woman who has little money and a child to make it and like it or not a large percentage do receive public assistance of some sort. I am talking about situations where it might make more sense to find a way to allow this student to finish school wether it be via student loans in place of the scholarship.

At my house in florida I paid plenty of guys to not mow my lawn when I was away. I also paid guys to not clean my pool as well. Seems like that is a well learned trick played on snow birds by florida home maintenance services. When I bought my house down there the builder told me that would be my biggest problem and he was right.

I would argue that the odds would be much better that the student would become far more productive in life and cost the tax payers less by finding a way for the pregnant student to finish college.

[club ho]

Female athletes on scholarship should ensure they don't get pregnant.  It's very simple, if you don't want to risk your scholarship, don't have sex.

I went to Umass which by the way is 16-1 right now in mens basketball. On campus stands a bronze statue of Chief Mentawampe holding a musket in his right hand. During my freshmen orientation in 1975 our guide told us that when the first virgin graduates Umass, Mentawampe will drop his musket. I was just visiting last week to watch a basketball game and noticed that Mentawampe still has a firm grasp on his musket.

[David in FL]

Sorry I pulled down the wrong post it was IACAS who suggested that the athletes come from well to do families.

My premise is not that everyone  who does not go to college is destined for welfare. It is a tough position for a woman who has little money and a child to make it and like it or not a large percentage do receive public assistance of some sort. I am talking about situations where it might make more sense to find a way to allow this student to finish school wether it be via student loans in place of the scholarship.

At my house in florida I paid plenty of guys to not mow my lawn when I was away. I also paid guys to not clean my pool as well. Seems like that is a well learned trick played on snow birds by florida home maintenance services. When I bought my house down there the builder told me that would be my biggest problem and he was right.

I would argue that the odds would be much better that the student would become far more productive in life and cost the tax payers less by finding a way for the pregnant student to finish college.

Missed

You're not paying them NOT to do the work, you're paying them to maintain the property while you're away.......

Now, are you going to continue to pay me while you also have to pay someone else to do the same job while I recover from having done something stupid?

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by club ho

I am talking about situations where it might make more sense to find a way to allow this student to finish school wether it be via student loans in place of the scholarship.

I like this better.  the school does not have a responsibility to take care of her after she breaks contract.  HOWEVER, it would be a decent thing to try and find a way to mitigate the impact of the problem.

In the end, though, her decisions should come with her responsibility to own the results.  No one else can own that.

[Slice of Life]

I respond to this collectively to all the posts that question my reasoning. We as consumers look at a scholarship as a  let say 40K dollar annual free ride for a student. In fact the actual cost to a school is far less.

If there was no money to be made from sports than there would be no scholarships offered.  "Irresponsible behavior" leads to a very slippery slope that ultimately leads to letting schools out of there contracts to there athletes.

I'd recommend you read a book on Title IX before you say that again. Because it's absolutely false.

[club ho]

I like this better.  the school does not have a responsibility to take care of her after she breaks contract.  HOWEVER, it would be a decent thing to try and find a way to mitigate the impact of the problem.

In the end, though, her decisions should come with her responsibility to own the results.  No one else can own that.

Clearly she owns the results a newborn baby. I think you see that helping her to finish college would reduce the likelihood that she might become a further burden via social programs.

[David in FL]

Clearly she owns the results a newborn baby. I think you see that helping her to finish college would reduce the likelihood that she might become a further burden via social programs.

1.  If not her, who would you like to see bear the burden of paying for her college?

2.  How does she differ from the pregnant woman who wasn't on scholarship but now finds that she can't afford both baby and school?  Should that same someone also pay for this woman's education?

3.  How about the woman who wasn't sure if she was going to college when she became pregnant......