Cary Schoen and The Lower Body Lie That Is Devastating Golf (Troll Thread)

[Phil McGleno]

Where are you @ZeroComp ?-Inquiring minds want to know.

[ZeroComp]

No Sales Pitch. Nothing really to sell. I do teach golf in California and sell it there on a daily basis. I just thought that maybe we could get an interesting conversation going about how the lower body is supposed to work. Like, what do you all feel it's role should be ?

[iacas]

@ZeroComp , how about you tell us what you think and we will start discussing it from there? Guessing games weren't even fun as a child.

[ZeroComp]

Phil, Thanks for reminding me. Yes, I stunk it up for about 10 years of full time playing. That particular year was the toughest stretch. I turned 30 this year and although my other years were all pretty much like this, I had never really hemorrhaged this bad since my first year out. It was enough to get me to cry uncle. But, this particular year I also met a tremendously knowledgeable fella who turned me on to Homer Kelley and the Golfing Machine. After working with many of the so-called "top instructors," I began to finally gain some understanding of why I wasn't able to get over the hump from averaging 71-72 to averaging 70. I sure wish I would have been able to play any one of those 10 years with what I know now. I don't know if I had the balls to compete at the level that I was aiming for, but I surely would have had a better chance of finding what kind of guts I had in a fair fight and not in a gun fight with a knife. Hopefully, what I've learned could help others from having to go down the same bad roads. Also, what does spamming a forum mean ? Very Truly, Cary

[jamo]

Also, what does spamming a forum mean ?

It means starting a thread that goes 22 posts while you still haven't actually explained this: [quote name="ZeroComp" url="/t/71453/the-lower-body-lie-that-is-devastating-golf/0_30#post_928507"]Hopefully, what I've learned could help others from having to go down the same bad roads. [/quote]

[Ernest Jones]

I don't now anything about Cary's product but after perusing some of his "activity" on the wrx (sp?) site I would recommend he take a course in media relations or hire someone to represent him in cyberspace because that kind of "na-na, na-na, boo boo" playground stuff won't last long around here.

[ZeroComp]

Ernie, I'm not sure what you're referring to as "na-na,na-na,boo-boo" ??? stuff Care to reference 1 single substantive example of me exhibiting questionable behavior ?

[ZeroComp]

Jamo, Sorry about letting it go 22 posts. I started the thread and then had to go teach. Not sure about cyber-forum etiquette. My only other experience on a golf forum is WRX and sometimes there would be hundreds and hundreds of posts that would go on without me explaining anything

[iacas]

@ZeroComp , how about you tell us what you think and we will start discussing it from there? Guessing games weren't even fun as a child.

Still waiting.

[billchao]

Jamo, Sorry about letting it go 22 posts. I started the thread and then had to go teach. Not sure about cyber-forum etiquette. My only other experience on a golf forum is WRX and sometimes there would be hundreds and hundreds of posts that would go on without me explaining anything

I count nine so far.

[mvmac]

No Sales Pitch. Nothing really to sell. I do teach golf in California and sell it there on a daily basis.

I just thought that maybe we could get an interesting conversation going about how the lower body is supposed to work.

Like, what do you all feel it's role should be ?

[Ernest Jones]

Ernie,

I'm not sure what you're referring to as "na-na,na-na,boo-boo" ??? stuff

Care to reference 1 single substantive example of me exhibiting questionable behavior ?

To the casual observer (and potential costumer) you came across as cryptic and argumentative. Not a great way to spread the Gospel.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong.

[ZeroComp]

Mvmac, I believe there should be some slide also. What do you feel like this slide accomplishes ? Jamo and billchao, I'm going to go walk my dog. I won't be posting till I get back. Sorry in advance

[ZeroComp]

Well Big Ern (remember Murray in Kingpin ?) I guess I was intentionally cryptic in order to provoke debate, which I was certainly successful doing, over 50,000 views in my 4 threads in 8 days. They even create new threads for me in order to try to get me to engage. Then the chicken$hit moderators ban me. And the very nature of debate would be that each side would have to argue their beliefs. Those sissies on WRX just didn't like being told the world wasn't FLAT and they reacted badly. Like babies. I was never once rude to a single WRX member while they were just rotten to me.

[mvmac]

Mvmac,

I believe there should be some slide also.

What do you feel like this slide accomplishes ?

Kicks in the 2nd axis tilt, moves low point forward.

[ZeroComp]

Interesting. I believe that the lower body moving laterally would absolutely tilt the "secondary" axis if what you're referring to is your spine / upper body tilting away from the target. The guys on WRX claim that this move is essential to "shallow" the attack angle. Which, they clearly believe is golf's Holy Grail / Magic Bullet You're saying it would move the low point forward. Would this then steepen the angle of attack ?

[mvmac]

Interesting.

I believe that the lower body moving laterally would absolutely tilt the "secondary" axis if what you're referring to is your spine / upper body tilting away from the target.

The guys on WRX claim that this move is essential to "shallow" the attack angle. Which, they clearly believe is golf's Holy Grail / Magic Bullet

You're saying it would move the low point forward. Would this then steepen the angle of attack ?

It helps the radius of the left arm not break down, so it allows for some decent but I can hit it 5 inches behind the ball and have a steep AoA.  Axis tilt allows for the hands/handle to raise, that with the thrust shallows the AoA.  We still want some decent but we don't want the player to just "spin" the hips where they have to "hold" their wrist angle and drag the handle left.

Compare these two players, note the difference in the left knees.  Left pic, player hasn't used "pressed" into the ground.  His AoA throughout the bag is too steep.  Right pic, player hitting a 6 iron about 3* down, because his left knee is flexed and forward he can thrust into the followthrough, raising the handle.  Player on the left won't have the same opportunity to get the club out of the ground.  Notice also how "bunchy" he looks, right arm, right shoulder and wrist angles.

Player can't release his pelvis on the left.  Player on the right is releasing the flexion in his torso, hips and legs, stretching everything out.

I don't believe this is the Holy Grail, I think every player has their own issues but having the majority of your weight forward at impact with the head steady and a flat lead wrist will make you a pretty damn good golfer.

[Mr Playerhater]

So what do you think zerocomp are the problems with most of the modern instructors teaching of the lower bodie lie. Give us some info