The KyleAnthony Golf Opera Thread

[KyleAnthony]

I know Erik doesn't need my help, but I can assure you Kyle that he wasn't being disrespectful. He's being honest. Going from mid/high 90's to scratch in 10 months is, I'm pretty sure, unheard of. Nobody's saying you'll never get there, but one year is really, really optimistic.

Don't give up on the site yet ... At least until after the 16tj outing when you meet everybody and realize that TST is good people. ;)

the thing is. i finally started improving. then had 3 terrible rounds. now Erik just assumes i shoot high 90's when I've started averaging 90 on my last 8 rounds, excluding the last 2. its kind of like solving a part of a puzzle and someone walking up to you bursting your bubble and saying you suck. i don't feel that it is necessary on the site when someone is trying to improve. Mvmac has been very nice and helpful to me and i greatly appreciate him and Drew you have been very nice as well. i met up with tristan today to play a round and he was very nice as well. it was honestly a big shock to see an admin, who Tristan talked very highly of, be so rude to someone who is using their site.

[KyleAnthony]

on a side note. don't people get in the penalty box for attacking users? how is that so when admin does it?

[flopster]

Well conversing this way is very "sterile" of personality and it's very easy to misinterpret how someone is trying to come across.

[SloverUT]

on a side note. don't people get in the penalty box for attacking users? how is that so when admin does it?

He didn't attack you.  As GD said, he just gave you honest feed back and it seems as if you didn't like that.  Erik is generally blunt and speaks directly.  Some people are used to that, others aren't.  Either way, he wasn't being disrespectful really and he definitely wasn't attacking you...

[KyleAnthony]

Well conversing this way is very "sterile" of personality and it's very easy to misinterpret how someone is trying to come across.

by saying i haven't brook 95 when i've post the 10 rounds that make up my handicap, none of which are even over 95 can't be meant to be nice. and i have never in my life shot a 56 on 9 holes until today so for him to say all my bad shots were on the 9 is just bad. i usually shot 39 to 47 for 9 holes.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleAnthony

my rounds last week were 86,91, and 87 in that order… i was mishitting non stop on the first 10 and finally realized what i was doing. and the feeling i get on my backswing is pulling it straight back. obviously its not only going straight back. and as far as your response i feel it is a little inappropriate for someone who as respected around here as you

I know Erik doesn't need my help, but I can assure you Kyle that he wasn't being disrespectful. He's being honest. Going from mid/high 90's to scratch in 10 months is, I'm pretty sure, unheard of. Nobody's saying you'll never get there, but one year is really, really optimistic.

Don't give up on the site yet ... At least until after the 16tj outing when you meet everybody and realize that TST is good people. ;)

Yes, I agree, it did not sound disrespectful.

I'll second the outing part, you'll have fun.

[KyleAnthony]

ok i understand it may be blunt, but did it really have to be said based on assumptions?

[KyleAnthony]

im not fighting the fact i won't be a scratch golfer by the end of the year. I'm arguing that he said i haven't broke 95, which is untrue and i rarely shoot over 95. and that he's implying i normally am not good because i have so many bad holes today just seemed that i got all my bad holes on the front 9 and good holes on the back. when my back 9 was normal.

[SloverUT]

I think you are misinterpreting what he said.

He was saying that your 56 on the front 9 and 43 on the back still ended up being your average score: The 90's (on average).  So while you may have shot your worst on the front 9 you evened it out on the back 9 by playing good golf.  Normally you may have shot a 45 on the front and 45 on the back but this time it was a bit more lopsided.  Whether you shoot even on the front and back or not, the end result was similar.

Also, I don't think he was saying you never break 95.  I think (I could be wrong) is that he was saying that if you aren't consistently shooting below 95 it may a bit hard to reach scratch by the end of this year.

Either way, I think you are taking it as a personal affront when there isn't one to be bad.

[David in FL]

on a side note. don't people get in the penalty box for attacking users? how is that so when admin does it?

The "admin" to whom you refer is the owner of this site. He's also being incredibly generous when he says that getting to scratch in 9 months will be difficult for you. It won't be difficult. It is flat out impossible. Sorry, that's just the honest truth. My unsolicited, and I'm sure unwelcome advice....... Set some reasonable, attainable goals, listen to experts when they try to help, and tone down the attitude. Call it tough love.

[KyleAnthony]

I think you are misinterpreting what he said.

He was saying that your 56 on the front 9 and 43 on the back still ended up being your average score: The 90's (on average).  So while you may have shot your worst on the front 9 you evened it out on the back 9 by playing good golf.  Normally you may have shot a 45 on the front and 45 on the back but this time it was a bit more lopsided.  Whether you shoot even on the front and back or not, the end result was similar.

Also, I don't think he was saying you never break 95.  I think (I could be wrong) is that he was saying that if you aren't consistently shooting below 95 it may a bit hard to reach scratch by the end of this year.

Either way, I think you are taking it as a personal affront when there isn't one to be bad.

my scores this year have been 90, 89 ,86, 91, 87, 100, 99 in that order. 2 bad rounds were my last 2 rounds. i haven't shot close to 95 in any other round.

The "admin" to whom you refer is the owner of this site.

He's also being incredibly generous when he says that getting to scratch in 9 months will be difficult for you. It won't be difficult. It is flat out impossible. Sorry, that's just the honest truth.

My unsolicited, and I'm sure unwelcome advice....... Set some reasonable, attainable goals, listen to experts when they try to help, and tone down the attitude.

i think i can make my own goals thank you. plus it may be unrealistic, but it makes me work harder toward it.

[KyleAnthony]

anywho. to sum this all up before my whole thread turns into this. i don't shoot mid-high 90's. him saying i do is a lie and disrespectful to me. that is how i interpreted it and everyone interprets things different. i don't care if people say i can't be a scratch golfer by september. its just an out there goal that I'm shooting for. the end. sorry for saying that i took what Erik said to be disrespectful. lesson learned.

[KyleAnthony]

so I'm off to play Soboba tomorrow. should be fun

[iacas]

Well that was unexpected. Here's what I said, in two parts.

Here's the pessimistic way of looking at that: your 56 could have just been all of your bad holes in a round coming together, and the 43 being the good holes coming together, rather than being distributed throughout the round. Play enough and that happens now and then. At the end of the day it's a 99.

You shot a 99. And a 100/99/97 before that, IIRC.

What I was saying is that I see stuff like this all the time - say someone averages 90, which is 45 per nine holes. Sometimes, though, their "good holes" come in a clump of nine or so holes and they shoot 40. Then they "revert to the mean" and shoot 50 on the other nine holes. Sometimes that nine is the front. Sometimes it's the back.

These golfers often think "they had it!" for nine holes (when they shot 40). The truth is, they're still a 90 shooting golfer… they just randomly had their good holes all on one side of the golf course.

Instead of going 4 5 6 4 5 6 4 5 6 4 5 6 4 5 6 4 5 6 they will go 6 6 5 6 6 5 6 6 5 5 4 4 5 4 4 5 4 4 and think they "had it for nine holes!" In a way they did… but viewed another way, they just randomly got a bunch of their better scores in a row. Throw 18 coins in the air enough times and they'll all land heads up (or tails up) eventually. It's bound to happen. Hell, I once went 31/41 to shoot even par. Guys on the PGA Tour sometimes shoot 29/39. It happens.

So the first part of my post said that. It's important to be somewhat pessimistic when you're reaching for goals because it keeps you grounded. Staying grounded allows you to celebrate the actual successes when you achieve them. If you think "I've got it!" that's when golf reaches up and CRUSHES you.

Heck, you shot 87 in a practice round (I learned that reading posts you made after mine) and then shot 100 or 99 or 97 or whatever in your tournament, right? You said yourself (IIRC) that you felt good, and golf reached up and crushed you. Staying practical and even a little pessimistic is a good way to avoid falling into the trap of thinking you've got it. Of thinking that you're better than you are. And that's important to actually make progress.

Your club doesn't go straight back. It goes back, up, and in.

That's just good (and correct) information. Not much more to say about that.

Scratch this year when you're not breaking 95 is going to be difficult - no sense making it more so with a bunch of bad information.

This is the part you seem to have most drastically misread or misunderstood. You shot 97 (or 99, or 100… IIRC that was you, right?). Then you shot 99. So here's simply how I meant it: "you're not breaking 95" right now . I literally meant right now. It may surprise you, but I don't keep track of what every member of the site shoots every time they play. I - like most people - notice the "noticeable" scores (good or bad), and I know you're the guy who's set a goal to get to scratch this year. So have that knowledge, a score of 87 simply doesn't register. It's not "noticeable." But a guy who wants to get to scratch shoots a pair of rounds in the high 90s, that is noticeable. That does stand out. just as a guy who says he's a 12 would stand out if he shoots 70.

If Tristan - a good guy like myself - said to you on the 18th tee "you're not breaking 95" would you be able to say otherwise? It's a statement of fact. I did not say you haven't broken 95. I said you're "not." It's framed in the present tense .

I was talking about the last two rounds, because those are the only rounds I remember. I remember only those rounds because they're the only ones that have stood out. They were noticeable to me.

Additionally, the MAIN point in that sentence was to urge you to start being very selective about the information you gather. "Club going straight back" isn't accurate information. It may work for you as a feel (I can relate - Rickie Fowler backswings feel like that to some people), but again my statement there was as a follow up to support the previous sentence, and to support the prior paragraph as well by trying to keep you from getting in too much despair.

Goals are good, but unrealistic goals lead to people crashing and getting burnt out and hating a game that's supposed to be fun.

I'm respected on this site because I have good information and care about people getting better at golf. It's troubling to me and deeply disappointing that you've seen fit to call me a liar, to say that I've attacked you, been rude, and several other things. Those could not be farther from the truth, and I should think that the many people who told you otherwise are a good testament to that.

I can tell you that I have a great deal in common and feel a kinship with anyone who is even remotely as addicted to the game as I am, and I get tremendous joy and satisfaction out of helping people on the site and in real life. Sometimes it requires some tough love, and sometimes it takes understanding the fact that I don't, for example, keep track of everyone's scores in my head.

I was looking forward to meeting you at the SoCal outing. I think Mike and I can help you, in a few minutes, on the range. I still hope you plan to come.

[KyleAnthony]

Thank you Erik for the explanation. For me I was caught up in the moment of figuring out what I was doing wrong so the bluntness of what you said probably did effect me more negatively than normal. When I started golfing again 5 months ago I was shooting mid to high 90's so I was very happy to start shooting high 80's low 90's. I do look forward to the SoCal meeting. Tristan said how helpful you and mike were to him. i do look forward to tips from everyone out there because i strive to be better. i will continue this thread as normal and not bring up the misunderstanding/argument anymore as to keep this thread on topic. i know that there are many nice and friendly people on here so i do look forward to tips from everyone as i update my swing thread

[flopster]

by saying i haven't brook 95 when i've post the 10 rounds that make up my handicap, none of which are even over 95 can't be meant to be nice. and i have never in my life shot a 56 on 9 holes until today so for him to say all my bad shots were on the 9 is just bad. i usually shot 39 to 47 for 9 holes.

I shot 80 last year 35 front 45 back.

[mvmac]

Don't mean to rehash anything but I did want to give my opinion.  Erik's post was just trying to help you.  He's not out to make you feel bad or to be rude to you.  If he was an a$$hole then this website wouldn't exist and there sure wouldn't be the amount of free information available.  You may have been more sensitive to it after the last round but it helps to consider the source.  Erik is one of the most knowledgeable guys in the game giving you some advice, may have been bordering on "tough love" but it was also insightful information.

[hopefulhacker]

@Kyle So where are you losing your shots in your recent bad rounds? I'm not overly familiar with the US HC system, I'm aware that you use the best 10 from 20 recent rounds. Do you need to be shooting 72 average in those 10 to get to scratch? Or is there a buffer? Without being harsh, on your recent rounds played you have to make a ~20-25 shot improvement. Have you looked into this and analysised where you are "losing" these shots? Do you keep detailed stats?