2014 NCAA Football

[saevel25]

Just hope that MSU blows Ohio out of the top 25. Such an overrated free pass team. They've beaten NO ONE and lost to an unranked weak Vtech. They lost to Vtech and beat cupcakes yet Oklahoma State barely lost to FSU and Ohio was given a higher ranking.

Same old story....Ohio gets its free pass to an over ranked spot in the beginning....beats a bunch of cup cakes then gets their asses handed to them by a real team.

Oklahoma State has 3 LOSSES!! You are seriously complaining about a 1 loss team versus a 3 loss team. I could understand maybe if they were a 2 loss team and they actually played a close game against their other losses. They got SMASHED by two ranked teams. Seriously, I've heard some rants against Ohio State before like this, but this one is just delusional.

How is it a free pass team? Both the coaches and the AP poll have Ohio State near 13th. The play off poll has them outside the top 15. Not sure how that is giving them a free pass. Maybe if they actually ranked them better then they have performed. Yet they haven't, they actually ranked them higher than they have performed.

Ohio State is ranked 8th in the F/+ rankings, http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feiplus. A ranking system that goes play by play and actually ranks teams based on strength of schedule in terms of offense, defense and special teams.

Another similar ranking system has them ranked 9th. These are NOT HUMAN POLLS. These are polls based on data that all other teams are compared to. and actually includes strength of schedule. This means Ohio State has been playing at the ability of an 8th-10th ranked team overall this year.

Wait here is another one. The ESPN FPI team efficiencies, Ohio State is ranked 8th, http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/teamratings/_/tab/efficiency. Ok. State is ranked 58th, with a barely above average offense, a below average defense and actually good special teams. Basically Ohio State would be nearly a 20 point favorite over Ok. State.

So, by actually play by play data, scoring averages, strength of schedule. Ohio State is the 8th to 9th best team in the country in terms of the cumulative 3 phases of football.

Yet the CFP rankings have them at 16th. I think Ohio State is actually getting the raw end of the deal on this one.

Really all you have is your own eye test, which is clearly biased. I threw out actual rankings based on statistics and strength of schedule to prove that Ohio State is being underrated were they are currently ranked at.

[Vinsk]

I wasn't referring to the current situation. OSU had one loss as well as Ohio but Ohios loss was to Vtech and OSU's was to FSU yet Ohio was ranked higher. You can't possibly argue Ohio's strength of schedule. It's pathetic. They are over ranked ...period. They lost to a weak team and have beaten nothing but weak teams. Listen to Cowherd....he's a hell of a lot more expert than you or I and be knows this is true.

[saevel25]

I wasn't referring to the current situation. OSU had one loss as well as Ohio but Ohios loss was to Vtech and OSU's was to FSU yet Ohio was ranked higher. You can't possibly argue Ohio's strength of schedule. It's pathetic. They are over ranked ...period. They lost to a weak team and have beaten nothing but weak teams. Listen to Cowherd....he's a hell of a lot more expert than you or I and be knows this is true.

Sure I can, OSU's SOS by Sagarin is 60th, Ok. State is 47th, Michigan State is 64th. Not like Ok. State is really pushing for those tough games. Did they compete well against FSU, yea. Did they get their assess kicked by the other two ranked teams they faced, YEP. Great job there guys. Even with that, their SOS isn't that impressive over Ohio State's. I could see it if Ok. State was like 20th or something.

Did you know that Ohio State has 6 freshman that have started on both offense and defense. They also only have 7 seniors starting. They have four new starters on the offensive line.

Now think about about that. There is an undeniable fact in college football, experience matters. Teams with a lot of talent can compete. Teams with a lot of talent + experience win National Championships.

Same with Ohio State, lots of talent. You can't argue they haven't recruited well. They have had top 10 recruiting rankings the past 3 years.

What they don't have is experience in some key positions. Those key position produce match up problems. So you add in four new starters on the O-line that has to go up against a complex defense that spent a year installing the bear defense, which no one really runs anymore. Only the Chicago Bears defense in the 80's ran it full time.

Do you see Vtech running that Bear Front on other teams. I don't think so. It was a unique defense adjustment to go up against Ohio State who likes to run a power version of the read option inside, and what hurt more was not having as shift as a QB running the option. Then you throw in the tight press coverage, and the complex blitz schemes. It was enough to give V-tech the advantage in an area that matters most in football, the line of scrimmage.

Look against Penn State. One of the best front seven in college football on defense and they just caused havok on OSU's O-line for majority of the time that night. You get beat at the line of scrimmage and I don't care how good an offense you have, you are going to look way worse, than lets say a WR just happens to drop an easy pass.

Now how does this translate into rankings. Well I have already proven that OSU has played like a top 10 team for most of the year. That is proven by play by play analysis including strength of schedule. So what happened in the 2nd game, BAD MATCHUPS + INEXPERIENCE.

To go on and say, "Well they lost to a bad V-Tech team." That is a total cop out argument from people who don't actually spend time looking at football at a finer detail. As an Ohio State fan, I admit that we are not a complete team. We have major match up problems against good defensive fronts. I am smart enough to trust empirical data more than Cowherd who probably doesn't watch every play by play of ever football game like those who run the statistics at Football Outsiders.

I agree with you, early in the season rankings are crap. Could have OK. State have been ranked higher than OSU after week 2, yea. I wouldn't have complained about it. Should they be now, absolutely not.

Really your whole argument, especially crying about what happened 3 weeks ago sounds more likes our grapes than an actual thoughtful argument on rankings and how good a team really is.

[MS256]

I wasn't referring to the current situation. OSU had one loss as well as Ohio but Ohios loss was to Vtech and OSU's was to FSU yet Ohio was ranked higher.

Early season polls mean almost nothing, and especially now that there is a Selection Committee. Certainly traditional powers have an advantage in the polls over most teams. That's not going to change. If a team doesn't like not getting that kind of respect all they have to do is start winning some championships.

Listen to Cowherd....he's a hell of a lot more expert than you or I and be knows this is true.

I like watching both of Colin's shows but he's no more of an expert than the rest of us. Sometimes I agree with his opinions and sometimes I don't. Sometimes his opinions turn out to be true and sometimes they don't. One thing I do like about him is that when he's totally wrong he doesn't mind admitting it.

I get the most aggravated with him on those years when he thinks Alabama is a lot better than they actually are. I'm thinking shut up Colin. We don't need an additional target on our back, additional motivation for opponents, and added fuel to the fire for stupid fans that think we are going to win every game.

[MS256]

Louisiana Monroe at TAMU:

1. TAMU is terrible.

2. Kevin Sumlin with possibly the worst coaching job here at the end that I have ever seen.

Little over 2 minutes left and TAMU runs the ball for 3 straight first downs to the ULM 45 yard line. Then a brain explosion tells Sumlin to throw the ball??? Then another brain explosion tells Sumlin to throw the ball again??? A third down run and the last timeout for ULM gives ULM the ball back with a chance to win.

Fortunately TAMU holds them and wins the game 21 to 16.

And they play Auburn next week? LOL They should call in sick for that one.

[trickyputt]

ESPN really had me going. I actually thought Ole Miss and Miss State had a chance. I forgot about the propaganda machine that goes with college football being changed by TV contract money. I am actually pissed off. Paul Finebaum is a local radio guy who took a contract ESPN job and still does his show locally, which explains my GOTCHA. I should have known better. I am gonna start some BBQ tomorrow a.m. because I suddenly need to burn things and eat comfort food.

[MS256]

LOL. Surely you don't take F-Baum seriously. ;-) I would say at this point that both Mississippi schools have more than a "chance" though. I would say more like in the driver's seat for Mississippi State and at least in the car for Ole Miss. (I'm hoping Auburn can put an end to Ole Miss' chances tonight). Mississippi State can even afford to lose this game (and I don't think they will) and still be in decent shape. Not so for Ole Miss.

[teamroper60]

Look against Penn State. One of the best front seven in college football on defense and they just caused havok on OSU's O-line for majority of the time that night. You get beat at the line of scrimmage and I don't care how good an offense you have, you are going to look way worse, than lets say a WR just happens to drop an easy pass.

Now how does this translate into rankings. Well I have already proven that OSU has played like a top 10 team for most of the year. That is proven by play by play analysis including strength of schedule. So what happened in the 2nd game, BAD MATCHUPS + INEXPERIENCE.

To go on and say, "Well they lost to a bad V-Tech team." That is a total cop out argument from people who don't actually spend time looking at football at a finer detail. As an Ohio State fan, I admit that we are not a complete team. We have major match up problems against good defensive fronts. I am smart enough to trust empirical data more than Cowherd who probably doesn't watch every play by play of ever football game like those who run the statistics at Football Outsiders.

Seriously?   Penn State has lost their last 4 games, including losing to a horrible Michigan team and today to Maryland.   In fact, UMASS is their best win of the season.   Doesn't sound like a real top tier defense to me.  The fact it took OSU 2OT to beat them says a ton about OSU and it isn't good.    As I said earlier in this thread, the committee doesn't think much of OSU's body of work either.   The chairman of that committee said so on live TV.

The problem with those stats you listed is, they are still dependent upon rankings to determine which teams are "good".   So human opinion still plays a part in them, rendering them no more (and conversely, no less) useful than any other metric.   I don't think Vinsk is seeing Ohio State with a clear view when he brings up rankings from early in the season but I don't think you are either.   The difference is, you make no bones about being an ardent OSU fan.

Changing gears, I want to personally thank Florida for putting Mizzou back in the drivers's seat on the road to Atlanta.    I just hope Mizzou can keep it together and take care of business for the remainder of their schedule.   Of course, I don't think they stand the proverbial snowball's chance against the SEC west champ but it would be nice to see them make the SEC championship game two years in a row.

[trickyputt]

That was the ugliest scoring play I remember seeing a defense score. Auburn broke that poor boys leg, took the fumble and made a safety. BRUTAL defense! Arkansas tried but I am suprised Miss State didnt do better in their game. Maybe MS wasnt fired up. Arkansas has lost a lot of games this year, 4-5 losses I think. I am kinda glad that Miss State is going to the show at the end of the year, its good for the SEC excitement level overall.

[MS256]

I don't always root for Auburn and Mississippi State... but when I do...it's because it's better for Alabama if they win. LOL. War Eagle and Hail State (at least for this week). BTW It's amazing how big and physical Arkansas is to have not won an SEC game in about 17 tries. They are so close it's bound to happen soon.

[teamroper60]

Arkansas is  0-5 in conference this year but have played well in all of them.   Their best win is against Texas Tech..   The same team that gave up 82 to TCU...

I will be surprised if Oregon doesn't get into the top 4 after finally breaking their Stanford jinx...

Hated to see that injury to the Miss. St. receiver.   That looked brutal...

[saevel25]

The problem with those stats you listed is, they are still dependent upon rankings to determine which teams are "good".   So human opinion still plays a part in them, rendering them no more (and conversely, no less) useful than any other metric.   I don't think Vinsk is seeing Ohio State with a clear view when he brings up rankings from early in the season but I don't think you are either.   The difference is, you make no bones about being an ardent OSU fan. Changing gears, I want to personally thank Florida for putting Mizzou back in the drivers's seat on the road to Atlanta.    I just hope Mizzou can keep it together and take care of business for the remainder of their schedule.   Of course, I don't think they stand the proverbial snowball's chance against the SEC west champ but it would be nice to see them make the SEC championship game two years in a row.

It isn't based on human opinion. Those rankings are mathematically created metrics for each phase of the game. The teams are ranked by statistics not human opinion. The strength of schedule then compares how the teams offense and defense, go up against another teams. In no way are they making human opinion, except in the ideology on what they consider something like points scored in garbage time. What I posted was the most unbiased statistical representation of a teams performance with out being tanted by win loss record. Ohio state is playing at a top 10 level statistically. Now does that say they should win. Individual game match ups are key for a lot of things. Oh, Penn State has the 12th best defensive line, and a top 15 overall defense. Don't get stuck on wins and losses. Their defense is very good. Their offense sucks. Oh, Virginia tech has the 8th ranked overall defense, with the 4th best defensive line. Ohio State has a very very young and inexperienced offensive line. Teams with top defensive, especially defensive lines are a big mis match. Ohio State caught the perfect storm in that 2nd game. It isn't an excuse, because I'm not saying Ohio State should have won that game. I am saying why they lost, like in all sports, big mismatches, especially on the line of scrimmage is not good.

[Golfingdad]

Pretty sure Brett Hundleys draft stock is going down with every successive play this year. I feel like he's dropped back to pass 15 times tonight and only actually thrown it 4 or 5 times. His current MO appears to be drop back, stand around for a few seconds, then run for it. Ugh. And UCLA has more penalty yards than Arizona has yards gained. Or at least it seems that way.

[teamroper60]

According to that website, those rankings are based at least partially on how a team performs against "good teams". "Good" is subjective in and of itself. Since schools can be undefeated (and therefore mathematically good) yet not of the caliber of schools who have multiple losses, human intervention is still involved in determining which teams are "good" otherwise Marshall would be in the top 3 and they aren't. Furthermore, humans created the program, so human criteria for weighting the parameters is still involved. This isn't something as black and white as you are trying to portray it. Furthermore, anyone who has seen their games or highlights and honestly believes Penn State has a top ranked defense is delusional. Regardless of what some set of stats say, their defense is not anywhere near that good. They have just played most of their games against other bad teams. If their defense was half that good, they wouldn't be 1-4 in the B1G because they wouldn't have lost today and they sure as hell wouldn't have lost to what is a really bad Michigan team.

[saevel25]

According to that website, those rankings are based at least partially on how a team performs against "good teams". "Good" is subjective in and of itself. Since schools can be undefeated (and therefore mathematically good) yet not of the caliber of schools who have multiple losses, human intervention is still involved in determining which teams are "good" otherwise Marshall would be in the top 3 and they aren't. Furthermore, humans created the program, so human criteria for weighting the parameters is still involved. This isn't something as black and white as you are trying to portray it.

Furthermore, anyone who has seen their games or highlights and honestly believes Penn State has a top ranked defense is delusional. Regardless of what some set of stats say, their defense is not anywhere near that good. They have just played most of their games against other bad teams. If their defense was half that good, they wouldn't be 1-4 in the B1G because they wouldn't have lost today and they sure as hell wouldn't have lost to what is a really bad Michigan team.

Nope, you can quantify the term "good".

Not really, because Marshall is undefeated and is ranked 22nd in the F/+ rankings. The way their team played says they are the 22nd best team, yet their W-L is undefeated. No need for the eye candy test. The reason being, their statistics are based off playing against teams with poor statistics. Those poor statistics are quantifiable.

It really isn't opinionated as saying, "Oh they only lost to FSU by 3 points". Heck FSU could have played a bad game. Or the team could have played crazy good while FSU played bad. How do you actually prove that. You don't, you usually get 20 different opinions on the matter. The rankings use standard deviations as their levels to measure strength of schedule. The defensive part of the F/+ stat has a strength of schedule component based on around what is considered an elite defense. That elite defense is based on 2 standard deviations above the mean. It isn't looking at a team and saying, "oh i think they look good". It takes majority of the human error out of it by actually making it based around statistics that every team is measured.

I will say prove Penn State's defense isn't that good. I said DEFENSE not team. Don't look at teams they faced in terms of wins and losses. Prove to me their DEFENSE is bad. Saying just because they lost to these teams, and they are 1-4 in the B10 doesn't prove to me their defense is bad. Anyone who knows football, knows there are three phases to the game. Teams have lost games because their special teams gave up two TD returns. You haven't said anything to prove your point. I've given statistics from multiple sites.

Heck even ESPN's FPI team efficiencies have Penn State's DEFENSE ranked as 9th in the nation. Their Offense is ranked 104th, and their Special Teams is ranked 92nd. That is how the games have played out. A lot of low scoring games, but the Offenses and Special Teams can't do enough to get them the wins.

[MS256]

Hated to see that injury to the Miss. St. receiver.   That looked brutal...

I hated to see that too. Hope it heals up alright.

He's a really good player, probably the best player on Ole Miss' team, and was bound to be a good NFL player.

Whenever I see a broken leg the first thing that comes to my mind is Tyrone Prothro who was never able to play again after his broken leg.

[cowboydave1967]

ESPN really had me going. I actually thought Ole Miss and Miss State had a chance. I forgot about the propaganda machine that goes with college football being changed by TV contract money. I am actually pissed off. Paul Finebaum is a local radio guy who took a contract ESPN job and still does his show locally, which explains my GOTCHA. I should have known better. I am gonna start some BBQ tomorrow a.m. because I suddenly need to burn things and eat comfort food.

Is it just me or does it seem most of the college football "authorities" i.e. sports show josts, play by play announcers, analysts and such really do not like the SEC? They really are tired of the SEC winning on the big stages. The last decade or so the SEC has. Unfortunately, college fotball is no longer a game played by young men on Saturdays. It is a billions of dollars per year business. There is becoming less and less integritiy of players, and coaches. What is the final tally of actual graduations of college athletes? I am sure it is lower now than ever. I personally am sick of institutions "taking care" of off campus issues, as they are often described. If a non-athlete commits these crimes, I means has the same issues, they have a criminal record and face the consequencesf the judicial system. The message that is being sent to prospective recruits is they can whatever they want as long as the perform on the athletics field. That does nothing in teaching these athletes how to be people of integrity. But, I may be the minorty of fans the believe an education and moral character are more important than wins and losses. And btw ,Trickyputt, great day to BBQ. I got chickens on the smoker now. :-)

[MS256]

Is it just me or does it seem most of the college football "authorities" i.e. sports show josts, play by play announcers, analysts and such really do not like the SEC? They really are tired of the SEC winning on the big stages. The last decade or so the SEC has. Unfortunately, college fotball is no longer a game played by young men on Saturdays. It is a billions of dollars per year business. There is becoming less and less integritiy of players, and coaches. What is the final tally of actual graduations of college athletes? I am sure it is lower now than ever. I personally am sick of institutions "taking care" of off campus issues, as they are often described. If a non-athlete commits these crimes, I means has the same issues, they have a criminal record and face the consequencesf the judicial system. The message that is being sent to prospective recruits is they can whatever they want as long as the perform on the athletics field. That does nothing in teaching these athletes how to be people of integrity. But, I may be the minorty of fans the believe an education and moral character are more important than wins and losses.

And btw ,Trickyputt, great day to BBQ. I got chickens on the smoker now.

I take most TV opinions with a huge grain of salt. Some people have an agenda and are biased. Some even admit it and make no bones about it. Some people are just ignorant and don't actually watch a lot of the teams they are talking about. And some are simply not very bright about the Xs and Os of football.

Pretty much just like "fans".

I normally like announcers that equally piss off both fan bases during a game or during commentary. It's actually hilarious when I check websites for two different teams during a game and both fan bases are absolutely convinced that the announcers are openly rooting for the other team.

It happens every single game that Vern and Gary call. Alabama fans think Colin Cowherd hates them. Fans outside of the SEC think Colin Cowherd is an Alabama and SEC homer.

It's best for TV and probably best for football when at least some teams in major nationwide TV markets are in the mix.