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The Wolf

Confessions of a pull hooker

60 posts in this topic

Hello

I'm new to this site.

Up to recently, I have played golf more for relaxation but its now starting to mess with my head. I am a decathlete and have studied sport to a very high level. I understand the basics of swing path and face angles but am having great difficulty eradicating my push hook which on bad days duck out of control.

I aim 20° right of target and feel that I am keeping the face open through impact but the ball still turns back to the target. Obviously the face is closed at impact but even if I over-exaggerate this it never slices. Someone suggested Hogan's wrist insulation to me but I didn't understand what he was talking about.

I am open to any suggestions.

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Welcome to this site.

There are many causes of a pull hook such as OTT (over the top), and it is difficult to tell without a video thread.

Look up "MySwing" and make your own swing thread.

Please read through this:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/73197/so-you-joined-tst-and-posted-a-member-swing-thread

You'll get a lot of helpful information from the vast number of posters here.

Again, welcome.

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Possibly swinging a bit too hard. This happens to me if I go after it and mess up the sequence.
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I aim 20° right of target and feel that I am keeping the face open through impact but the ball still turns back to the target. Obviously the face is closed at impact but even if I over-exaggerate this it never slices. Someone suggested Hogan's wrist insulation to me but I didn't understand what he was talking about.

Ball starts where the face is pointed at impact and curves away from the path. Good article to check out

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

I would first stop aiming 20 degrees right, it's curving too much because the path is too far out to the right. Face angle seems fine if the ball is starting right of the intended target. For draws, face should be right of intended target.

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Ball starts where the face is pointed at impact and curves away from the path. Good article to check out

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

I would first stop aiming 20 degrees right, it's curving too much because the path is too far out to the right. Face angle seems fine if the ball is starting right of the intended target. For draws, face should be right of intended target.

Thanks for the feedback.

My problem isn't how far right I start the ball but how much it curves back. The flight laws are a little over my head and the only path that I can talk about is the in/out. I think the other two paths are nonsensical. As the club always comes from the inside initially on the downswing, its a bit of a back breaker and a power leak to then move to the outside of the attack line and move the club head on an out/in path through impact. As for the in/in path, I would like to see the player who can consistently achieve a square path through impact.

Anyway that's about my understanding of path. Back to my problem...

I normally start my ball 15° to 25° right of my desired target and on good days it curves nicely back to target. But on bad days it tends to curve way too much. I have never been able to achieve a slice curve except when I get silly with face angles but there's something about club design that makes closed face conditions more accessible.

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@The Wolf , I mean this in the right way, but some education is in order here…

The flight laws are a little over my head and the only path that I can talk about is the in/out. I think the other two paths are nonsensical. As the club always comes from the inside initially on the downswing, its a bit of a back breaker and a power leak to then move to the outside of the attack line and move the club head on an out/in path through impact. As for the in/in path, I would like to see the player who can consistently achieve a square path through impact.

There are millions of golfers who swing out to in. Some have won five majors…

Everyone's swing is circular or in an arc - so they start inside, and at some point (and only for that tiny moment) are on the target line, and then are right back inside it again.

Virtually nobody has a "square" path every time, because that would be a player with no real pattern. Virtually every good player on the PGA Tour, etc. has a path slightly left or right of the target. Only a few degrees - no more than 6-8° (and only 8° with the driver, typically).

The ball flight laws are simple.

The ball starts generally where the face is pointing, and curves away from the path.

I normally start my ball 15° to 25° right of my desired target and on good days it curves nicely back to target.

No you don't. You'd have to swing 20-30° out. Nobody really does that. I saw a guy with one of the most right-ward paths I've ever seen and it was only 12-13° out. And that's "path" - not face.

I haven't read much of the thread, but if you're push-hooking the ball is starting right because the face is right, and hooking because your path is farther right than that.

Keep your left arm pressure point (in your armpit) tighter to your chest. It will keep your arm from flying off your chest and continuing to go out to the right. Or make a "My Swing" thread so we aren't making educated guesses.

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He might be starting it that far right considering he says he aims (I assume he means aligns) 20 degrees right. I would probably call it a pull hook though. Just with adjusted alignments.
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He might be starting it that far right considering he says he aims (I assume he means aligns) 20 degrees right.

I would probably call it a pull hook though. Just with adjusted alignments.

Yeah, I missed that part. He should stop aiming so far right.

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Anyway that's about my understanding of path. Back to my problem...

Might be fair to consider that your understanding of face/path might be the root of the problem.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Anyway that's about my understanding of path. Back to my problem...

Might be fair to consider that your understanding of face/path might be the root of the problem.


I still don't understand the physics behind this kind of flight. A push-draw already "reaches out" at impact to get that slight draw. It seems like you would need to dislocate your shoulder outwards to do a push-hook.

The original thread title makes a lot more sense "Confessions of a pull hooker", that would be your classic OTT swing.

Oh well, until I can get my short game in order to lower my handicap, my opinion is not worth the words I put into it.

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I still don't understand the physics behind this kind of flight. A push-draw already "reaches out" at impact to get that slight draw. It seems like you would need to dislocate your shoulder outwards to do a push-hook. The original thread title makes a lot more sense "Confessions of a pull hooker", that would be your classic OTT swing. Oh well, until I can get my short game in order to lower my handicap, my opinion is not worth the words I put into it.

In regards to the OP, it's more of a pull hook because of how far to the right he aims. "Pulled" in relation to his body line, not the target. A pull hook doesn't necessarily mean it wa an OTT swing. From a neutral stance, if I have the face 2 degrees left at impact and swimg out 3 degrees, that ball will pull draw. Remember ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path. From my experience when it's a quick hook it tends to be off the toe so gear effect tilts the spin axis more left. On my phone so that's my quickie answer.

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If I hit more off the toe from an inside out swing, it seems like I should get a baby fade that goes a little high. I use dr. Scholls to track my impacts. I suppose if the shaft is too flexible, it could hook?
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I'll be popping down to the range next week and I intend filming my swing. I can't believe the feedback I have had already. My boyfriend reckons you lot will be sending me an invoice for this advice.
Allow me to throw another teaser at you all. my playing partner, who plays off 3 says I definitely hit a push hook. You see there's a short par 4 at our home course that has trees all down the left and right for about 150 yds, its a rather narrow corridor with very tall trees on the left. My point is, I hit the ball over the shorter trees on the right and at about 170 yds my ball begins to turn left and finds the dogleg and often runs on or near trhe green. Is it possible to hit a high pull hook?

BTW, can I question the logic of an in/out path (3°) with a slightly closed face (2°) creating a pull. That ball would start right and end up left of target. A clubface that's almost square couldn't send the ball left of target that quickly, surely?

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Allow me to throw another teaser at you all. my playing partner, who plays off 3 says I definitely hit a push hook. You see there's a short par 4 at our home course that has trees all down the left and right for about 150 yds, its a rather narrow corridor with very tall trees on the left. My point is, I hit the ball over the shorter trees on the right and at about 170 yds my ball begins to turn left and finds the dogleg and often runs on or near trhe green. Is it possible to hit a high pull hook?

We're not doubting the ball starts right of the target and draws back or draws left of the target. If you aim 20 degrees right of your target and the ball starts 15 degrees right of the target, that's a pull in relation to your body alignments.

Again, if you want to curve it less, stop aiming 20 degrees right.

BTW, can I question the logic of an in/out path (3°) with a slightly closed face (2°) creating a pull. That ball would start right and end up left of target. A clubface that's almost square couldn't send the ball left of target that quickly, surely?

No it wouldn't, again please read this

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

Here's the quick summary, it's not logic, it's just the way it is.

The ball starts generally where the face is pointing, and curves away from the path.

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Hey All, I just spent an entire bucket of balls trying to produce a low push-hook. I think I succeeded ???, and then it took me another half an hour to undo what I did.

The ball flight started off slightly to the left (I'm a lefty) and pulled all the way to the right fence. It was a lot shorter and lower than my normal drive (Maybe 2/3 the distance and half the height).

On the other hand, it could have been flipping that produced it???

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Golf. Got to love it. ;-) People set up to hit a hook and then complain that they hook the ball and people set up to hit a slice and then complain that they slice the ball. I asked a guy one day why he was setting up to hit a huge slice if he didn't want to hit a slice (after he had been complaining about his slice all day). He said "What do you mean by that?" SMH!!!
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Golf. Got to love it.

People set up to hit a hook and then complain that they hook the ball and people set up to hit a slice and then complain that they slice the ball.

I asked a guy one day why he was setting up to hit a huge slice if he didn't want to hit a slice (after he had been complaining about his slice all day).

He said "What do you mean by that?" SMH!!!

That's pretty funny. :-$

And, once I can do any of these things on demand, I think I'll be ready to understand exactly what you are talking about and laugh from a higher level of understanding.

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