TaylorMade Proposes 15 Inch holes!

[iacas]

  krupa said:

All I can think about is how much trouble I'm having getting the ball in the air and how little a big hole would help improve my game.

Ten-stroke and 45 minute improvements cited above. Just saying. :-) P.S. Play shorter tees.

[krupa]

  iacas said:

Ten-stroke and 45 minute improvements cited above.

Just saying.

P.S. Play shorter tees.

I do... also doesn't help get the ball in the air. :)

The frustrating part of golf isn't putting (for me anyway) it's chunking, skulling, and otherwise hacking my way around the course.

For the record, I took a lesson last week that I think really helped my fundamentals.  I haven't a chance to hit the range but I've spent a lot of time in the living room practicing taking a better stance and it's more and more comfortable.

[iacas]

  krupa said:

I do... also doesn't help get the ball in the air. :) The frustrating part of golf isn't putting (for me anyway) it's chunking, skulling, and otherwise hacking my way around the course.

There are lots of frustrating parts about cough, and I don't think we should rule out ideas simply because they don't match perfectly with your particular weaknesses. :-)

[krupa]

  iacas said:

There are lots of frustrating parts about cough, and I don't think we should rule out ideas simply because they don't match perfectly with your particular weaknesses.

I'm not ruling it out, I'm just saying that as a beginner putting isn't the frustrating part for me.  You're the instructor... is there any area that stands out as a general frustration for your students?

I think 15" holes would be fun but I don't see how it would encourage people like me if we're taking 7 strokes to get to the green.

[iacas]

  krupa said:

I think 15" holes would be fun but I don't see how it would encourage people like me if we're taking 7 strokes to get to the green.

I already spoke to this earlier. Putting looks simple, and even if it takes you seven strokes to get on the green, at least you're advancing the ball. Three and four and five putting feels like being slapped in the face after being kicked in the shins. And again, 45 minutes. 10 strokes.

[Chilli Dipper]

[URL=http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/sports/golf/in-a-hole-golf-considers-digging-a-wider-one.html?_r=0&referrer;=] NYT: In a Hole, Golf Considers Digging a Wider One[/url] My own opinion: golf's governing bodies are obviously concerned about the long-term health of the game, so I understand their desire to throw out new ideas. The 15-inch cup feels like a gimmick to me, though.

[newtogolf]

  iacas said:

I already spoke to this earlier. Putting looks simple, and even if it takes you seven strokes to get on the green, at least you're advancing the ball. Three and four and five putting feels like being slapped in the face after being kicked in the shins.

And again, 45 minutes. 10 strokes.

Hack golf is like bowling with the bumpers down, it's might be more fun to score better, but in the end it's like kissing your sister.  So instead of taking it 4:30 for a new golfer, it take 3:45 and instead of shooting 140, they shoot 130, not seeing how this is going to save golf but if some courses stay open because it's a cool gimmick I'm okay with it.

One could save 45 minutes and 10 strokes by simply utilizing generous gimme's - oh wait a lot of people already do that.

[Lihu]

  newtogolf said:

Hack golf is like bowling with the bumpers down, it's might be more fun to score better, but in the end it's like kissing your sister.  So instead of taking it 4:30 for a new golfer, it take 3:45 and instead of shooting 140, they shoot 130, not seeing how this is going to save golf but if some courses stay open because it's a cool gimmick I'm okay with it. One could save 45 minutes and 10 strokes by simply utilizing generous gimme's - oh wait a lot of people already do that.

It would save a lot more than 10 strokes.

[iacas]

  newtogolf said:

Hack golf is like bowling with the bumpers down, it's might be more fun to score better, but in the end it's like kissing your sister.  So instead of taking it 4:30 for a new golfer, it take 3:45 and instead of shooting 140, they shoot 130, not seeing how this is going to save golf but if some courses stay open because it's a cool gimmick I'm okay with it.

One could save 45 minutes and 10 strokes by simply utilizing generous gimme's - oh wait a lot of people already do that.

I feel like people are taking my comments as if they (not you specifically @newtogolf ) think I believe 15" holes are THE answer.

It's one of MANY possible answers. I'm not saying courses should do this in isolation. Heck, I voted "sometimes" in the poll (once a year is pointless). For a new player, I say give them a 15" hole, let them throw the ball out of bunkers, and have them tee it up everywhere. If I was limited to three things, those might be them. It reduces frustration at every point along the hole.

Yes, hitting the ball is clearly a lot more difficult than putting. But putting is at the end. The last mile of the marathon is just as easy as the first, but which do people dread more? For beginners, the very fact that putting is supposed to be and seems relatively easy makes it all the more frustrating. You need to be within 1° (and assuming you have the speed perfect AND the read perfect too) to hole a 10' putt. It simply doesn't happen often for beginners, who four- and five-putt regularly. It's frustrating to cover 300 yards in six shots, yes, but often it's even more frustrating to cover the last 30 feet in nearly the same number of strokes!

So no, this is not THE solution, but it could easily be part of a solution to "sometimes" help new golfers.

[newtogolf]

  Lihu said:

It would save a lot more than 10 strokes.

10 strokes wasn't my stat, it was the articles.

[newtogolf]

  iacas said:

I feel like people are taking my comments as if they (not you specifically @newtogolf) think I believe 15" holes are THE answer.

It's one of MANY possible answers. I'm not saying courses should do this in isolation. Heck, I voted "sometimes" in the poll (once a year is pointless). For a new player, I say give them a 15" hole, let them throw the ball out of bunkers, and have them tee it up everywhere. If I was limited to three things, those might be them. It reduces frustration at every point along the hole.

Yes, hitting the ball is clearly a lot more difficult than putting. But putting is at the end. The last mile of the marathon is just as easy as the first, but which do people dread more? For beginners, the very fact that putting is supposed to be and seems relatively easy makes it all the more frustrating. You need to be within 1° (and assuming you have the speed perfect AND the read perfect too) to hole a 10' putt. It simply doesn't happen often for beginners, who four- and five-putt regularly. It's frustrating to cover 300 yards in six shots, yes, but often it's even more frustrating to cover the last 30 feet in nearly the same number of strokes!

So no, this is not THE solution, but it could easily be part of a solution to "sometimes" help new golfers.

I didn't mean to imply these were your suggestions or that you believed they were "THE answer".  I recognize the industry as a whole is trying to figure out ways to save itself and this is one possible solution that is being promoted by King and TM.

I personally don't have a better suggestion, I've said many times, golf is the toughest sport / game I've ever attempted to play.  It takes a lot of practice, lessons and patience to get good enough to even think about playing on a real course.  Most sports / games you can be a novice and fake your way through it and still have a good time but you really can't in golf.

[iacas]

  newtogolf said:

I didn't mean to imply these were your suggestions or that you believed they were "THE answer".  I recognize the industry as a whole is trying to figure out ways to save itself and this is one possible solution that is being promoted by King and TM.

And I wasn't posting specifically in response to only you.

[Fourputt]

  iacas said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by krupa

I think 15" holes would be fun but I don't see how it would encourage people like me if we're taking 7 strokes to get to the green.

I already spoke to this earlier. Putting looks simple, and even if it takes you seven strokes to get on the green, at least you're advancing the ball. Three and four and five putting feels like being slapped in the face after being kicked in the shins.

And again, 45 minutes. 10 strokes.

I want to know how many of the participants in these demo outings are the beginners that the program is aimed at.  It's all well and good for tour pros and "golf industry leaders" (who are more than likely middling good players) to shave that time off the round, but are those same gains reflected when it's just rank novices who are playing?  This mutual backslapping is fine, but I want to see the results when the field is made up of a bunch of one lesson or no lesson beginners.  If they show the same results, then there might be merit in the idea, but I still can't see smooth sailing with both games played simultaneously on the same course.

[Strandly]

The cost to play excludes waaaay more people than the difficulty imo.  Lessons are expensive, the equipment is expensive, renting the course is expensive.  If you can't afford these things you can't even get out there and get mad at your inability to hit the ball in the first place.  Making the game more affordable so more people could play would be my #1 suggestion but I have no idea how one would do that without turning all the courses into goat tracks due to lack of maintenance and massive traffic.

[pepsiplusconker]

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[MS256]

I wish we had used 15" holes yesterday. ;-) I saw more 3 putts in that round of golf among our group than I have ever seen before, by a wide margin. Lightning fast dormant Bermuda + slow patches of emerging new grass + 30mph winds = a complete nightmare on the greens. One guy barely touched his very slightly downhill 12' putt and the wind kept pushing it and pushing it until it went completely off of the green 30' past the hole.

[Lihu]

  MS256 said:

I wish we had used 15" holes yesterday. ;-) I saw more 3 putts in that round of golf among our group than I have ever seen before, by a wide margin. Lightning fast dormant Bermuda + slow patches of emerging new grass + 30mph winds = a complete nightmare on the greens. One guy barely touched his very slightly downhill 12' putt and the wind kept pushing it and pushing it until it went completely off of the green 30' past the hole.

I bet he only missed by 7 inches, too? I had quite a few miss by an inch or two.

[MS256]

  Lihu said:

I bet he only missed by 7 inches, too? I had quite a few miss by an inch or two.

Yeah, less than that. If the weather stays like it was today for a few more days that will be the last we have to deal with greens like that. BTW. Our group won the money on one side at one over par in double low ball, and that never happens, so the other groups did worse than we did.