REALLY Need Putting Help 10 GIRs and not a single Par

[bplewis24]

You guys really do love to take something and run with it.

I agree with you here.  Seems like a lot of quibbling over a subtle variation or semantics.  I don't see anything wrong with what you said, but more to the point, I doubt it has any relevance to the OP.  My guess is the OP simply gave up on the round at some point and didn't take his putting seriously.  There's no technical excuse for 58 putts (or I guess it was 55 putts?).  Gripping the club too tightly or a little too loose in the wrists doesn't result in a +25 explosion in putts.

[boogielicious]

You guys really do love to take something and run with it. I do not advise moving your wrists at all. In doing so, you can easily move something off line. All it takes is 1 mm to move that putter face at an angle that disrupts your ball contact. That is how I was taught by a respected coach and that's how I play. It serves me well, and the folks I have played with that move their wrists like Erik did, miss more putts. Maybe that's why Erik missed all 3 putts? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Phil Mickelson and many other players set a hinge in their wrist right before they start the back swing. Then the LOCK that hinge and do not move their wrists. This is to ensure little funny business throughout the stroke.

Phil does a forward press. But on longer putts, there is more movement in his wrists in the back swing. The feeling maybe hinge and hold, but there is movement.

[Lihu]

Although you did not answer my question the way I wanted you to (with the examples), I will TRY and help you here. I used to be this same way. My friend instilled this "new" way of looking at it for me. Most people can't sink a 10 ft putt. 3ft and in, yes. So instead of trying to make it (because in doing so, it means you hit it AT LEAST to the hole) start playing under the hole and just get it as close as possible. This will begin to GUARANTEE 2 putts. You aren't going to miss a 4" putt. Get my point there? Now if you have an 8 ft putt with break for birdie, go for it. That's the way I was doing things and it brought me from a 40's putter to a low 30's putter. Hope it helps.

Thanks for the advice, but as I have mentioned many times I am not even working on my putting. Other than rounds, and the occasional 5 minutes on the putting green, I do not practice putting. So, it is understandable that my putting average is 7-8 strokes above the PGA average of 29. My plan is to get more GIR then plateau, and then start to work on the short game. I'm learning in stages, so to speak. I get more out of it, and can track statistics much more readily if I have less variables to think about. [quote name="dbrock504" url="/t/74199/really-really-really-need-putting-help-10-girs-not-a-single-par/54#post_985560"] You guys really do love to take something and run with it. I do not advise moving your wrists at all. In doing so, you can easily move something off line. All it takes is 1 mm to move that putter face at an angle that disrupts your ball contact. That is how I was taught by a respected coach and that's how I play. It serves me well, and the folks I have played with that move their wrists like Erik did, miss more putts. Maybe that's why Erik missed all 3 putts? ;-) Correct me if I'm wrong, but Phil Mickelson and many other players set a hinge in their wrist right before they start the back swing. Then the LOCK that hinge and do not move their wrists. This is to ensure little funny business throughout the stroke. [/quote] This is the type of thing that you write that will invite questions. The fact that you even joke about Erik missing putts (and he is scratch or nearly so) somewhat discredits what you are stating. Even if you were a 2.04 handicap, you could still learn something from him. Now, I am looking at the same video as you are and I do not see any locking of his wrists. It is very clear on the second putt, where you can see a rubbery action around his wrists on the takeaway. I agree that his timing is so nearly perfect that it looks like his wrists are locked. I want to make a statement. We are roughly the same handicap, and I am taking into account the fact that you think you could easily be a 10 or even single digit. So could I, if I just didn't make all those stupid mistakes. Well, we make those mistakes, and that is why we are mid/high handicappers. I drive the ball anywhere from 230 to 270, averaged 250 all day yesterday, hit my irons to within 20 yards from 140 yards(all two of them), made 5 greens and 10 fairways, putted 15 on the front 9 and chipped in on one hole from 30 feet for a par, missed 4 birdies and one eagle putt. Does this sound like a 17.3 handicap? Yes, because I am a mid/high handicap for whatever reason. Our handicaps indicate that we have a lot to learn about this game, and if we spend more time listening to experts rather than criticizing them, we can improve more quickly. My goal is to shoot low 80s before the end of the year, and I still have volumes of information to learn to get there.

[iacas]

Seems like a lot of quibbling over a subtle variation or semantics.

I disagree that it's just semantics. When you tell people to "lock" their wrists, they'll do certain things that I and perhaps others feel are counter-productive. I take very seriously my somewhat unstated pledge to try to put the best information out there on a site I own.

I do not advise moving your wrists at all. In doing so, you can easily move something off line. All it takes is 1 mm to move that putter face at an angle that disrupts your ball contact.

As I said before, there's minimal trade-off and the positives, IMO, outweigh the negatives. The positives are increased touch and feel and distance control. Combine that with the fact that more three-putts are a result of poor distance control on the first putt than poor face control and that's the nucleus of my reasoning for it.

I don't wish to belabor the point, because we had this discussion just over a year ago, and that thread is better suited for this. In fact, the rest of my quote and response is going to go there.

Here's the thread: .

[dbrock504]

This is the type of thing that you write that will invite questions. The fact that you even joke about Erik missing putts (and he is scratch or nearly so) somewhat discredits what you are stating. Even if you were a 2.04 handicap, you could still learn something from him.

Now, I am looking at the same video as you are and I do not see any locking of his wrists. It is very clear on the second putt, where you can see a rubbery action around his wrists on the takeaway. I agree that his timing is so nearly perfect that it looks like his wrists are locked.

I want to make a statement. We are roughly the same handicap, and I am taking into account the fact that you think you could easily be a 10 or even single digit. So could I, if I just didn't make all those stupid mistakes. Well, we make those mistakes, and that is why we are mid/high handicappers. I drive the ball anywhere from 230 to 270, averaged 250 all day yesterday, hit my irons to within 20 yards from 140 yards(all two of them), made 5 greens and 10 fairways, putted 15 on the front 9 and chipped in on one hole from 30 feet for a par, missed 4 birdies and one eagle putt. Does this sound like a 17.3 handicap? Yes, because I am a mid/high handicap for whatever reason. Our handicaps indicate that we have a lot to learn about this game, and if we spend more time listening to experts rather than criticizing them, we can improve more quickly. My goal is to shoot low 80s before the end of the year, and I still have volumes of information to learn to get there.

It was a joke, and nothing more. I even added an emoticon to make sure the joke wasn't taken out of context. Simply just messing around. Where is everyone's sense of humor now days? These are his opinions on what he believes is most effective. I simply disagree. Never did I criticize Erik on a serious note. I am just explaining my point of view, and all he is responding with is his opinion (increase in feel and more consistent distance). I find that is not true with my game. It really is that simple. I believe you shouldn't have any free movement there to minimize errors. He disagrees. He's a pro, I am not, but I am a low 30's putter, so I am not a bad putter. My issues on the course lie elsewhere. I felt that I had some knowledge to pass along in this particular area of the game. Sorry if I didn't agree with the all-mighty Erik. If you want to learn from Erik and Erik alone, read his comments and disregard others. I thought the point of this site was to hear from other point of views and perspectives. If you can't handle that, I suggest you quit signing on. I don't mean to be hostile, but I'm tired of being told how I may or may not give my opinion on topics here just because Erik says another. I never once discredited or criticized Erik's opinion. In fact, I respect and value his opinion. In this case however, I disagree. I was taught differently by a PGA coach and it makes sense and works for me. There is more than ONE way to play this game, you know?

[Lihu]

It was a joke, and nothing more. I even added an emoticon to make sure the joke wasn't taken out of context. Simply just messing around. Where is everyone's sense of humor now days? These are his opinions on what he believes is most effective. I simply disagree. Never did I criticize Erik on a serious note. I am just explaining my point of view, and all he is responding with is his opinion (increase in feel and more consistent distance). I find that is not true with my game. It really is that simple. I believe you shouldn't have any free movement there to minimize errors. He disagrees. He's a pro, I am not, but I am a low 30's putter, so I am not a bad putter. My issues on the course lie elsewhere. I felt that I had some knowledge to pass along in this particular area of the game. Sorry if I didn't agree with the all-mighty Erik. If you want to learn from Erik and Erik alone, read his comments and disregard others. I thought the point of this site was to hear from other point of views and perspectives. If you can't handle that, I suggest you quit signing on. I don't mean to be hostile, but I'm tired of being told how I may or may not give my opinion on topics here just because Erik says another. I never once discredited or criticized Erik's opinion. In fact, I respect and value his opinion. In this case however, I disagree. I was taught differently by a PGA coach and it makes sense and works for me. There is more than ONE way to play this game, you know?

Agreed, there is more than one way to play. As a 30s putter I would say you do have good knowledge of putting. I suppose I'm just too focused on one way right now to understand other methods.

[dbrock504]

Agreed, there is more than one way to play. As a 30s putter I would say you do have good knowledge of putting.

I suppose I'm just too focused on one way right now to understand other methods.

This is what I believe hurts too many players that I play with. Find what works for you off of the base idea (having good feel and distance control). Phil Mickelson putts differently than Tiger Woods who putts different than Arnold Palmer, yet they are all multi-winning Masters champions. Don't FORCE your self to do something ONE way just because some guy with the low handicap said so (not directing this at Erik). This would be the benefit of getting lessons surrounding each part of your game (driver, long fairway shots, long irons, short irons, chipping, putting). Again, find what works for you. Try my (David Pilsner's) way, try Erik's way, try Phil Mickelson's way on YouTube, try Mark Crossfield's way on YouTube. Heck, you might have a concoction of all 4! haha

[MS256]

I'm not anymore of a putting guru than anybody else (and it seems everybody is an expert putter) but if I have a putt for a million dollars I'm not picking anybody else to hit the putt for me either. FWIW here's my drill: Make an 8 foot chalk line on a straight putt with a dime as the target (hole). Draw lines around 4 golf balls. Roll the balls down the chalkline line with no wobble in the line around the ball. When you can do that almost every time roll all 4 balls so each one touches the previous one without moving it and all 4 balls are sitting on the chalk line, the lines around the balls are all straight on the chalk line, and all 4 balls are touching each other. Is it easy? Hell no. Will you be able to do it quickly and consistently? Hell no, it might take who knows how long. (Maybe never depending on skill). Will you feel like there is not a reasonable putt you don't have a better chance than anybody else of making once you can do it? Hell yes!

[dbrock504]

Quote:

Originally Posted by achadha7

Yet another disappointing round yesterday.... iron and driver were excellent ... i shot 10 GIR's but not a single par... total score 102 which had ...... 58 PUTTS !!!!!!! help pls

I'm not anymore of a putting guru than anybody else (and it seems everybody is an expert putter) but if I have a putt for a million dollars I'm not picking anybody else to hit the putt for me either.

FWIW here's my drill:

Make an 8 foot chalk line on a straight putt with a dime as the target (hole).

Draw lines around 4 golf balls.

Roll the balls down the chalkline line with no wobble in the line around the ball.

When you can do that almost every time roll all 4 balls so each one touches the previous one without moving it and all 4 balls are sitting on the chalk line, the lines around the balls are all straight on the chalk line, and all 4 balls are touching each other.

Is it easy? Hell no. Will you be able to do it quickly and consistently? Hell no, it might take who knows how long. (Maybe never depending on skill).

Will you feel like there is not a reasonable putt you don't have a better chance than anybody else of making once you can do it? Hell yes!

I'm going to have to try this! Sounds awesome. Thanks for sharing this

[achadha7]

wow that is a lot of advice and has completely overwhelmed me... i will try and get a swing video today ( monday) and post it. i played another round yesterday 6 GIR's in 9 holes not a single par. same story continues, 24 putts .... i am gonna be posting my swing and prolly getting a lesson later this week ....

[iacas]

I don't mean to be hostile, but I'm tired of being told how I may or may not give my opinion on topics here just because Erik says another.

You don't need to be quite as hostile as you were, but @Lihu , as you know, we welcome differing opinions. Even if you want to learn just from me (which would be dumb), you're given the chance to hear more about what I have to say (and others too) because people discuss, debate, disagree, etc.

So everyone, chill. :) I haven't been offended by anything. Again, we welcome discussion here.

[dbrock504]

wow that is a lot of advice and has completely overwhelmed me... i will try and get a swing video today ( monday) and post it. i played another round yesterday 6 GIR's in 9 holes not a single par. same story continues, 24 putts .... i am gonna be posting my swing and prolly getting a lesson later this week ....

I apologize for the insane argument above. We did not mean to overwhelm you.

It really is simple. Implement a pendulum motion in your swing. You have to be getting "wristy" by rolling, flipping or rotating your wrists on the ball. 24 putts on 9 holes is absolutely insane. Upload that swing as you have mentioned and we will all be able to help you better. Go to YouTube if you can and just view a video on how to putt. They will provide a simple swing for you that you can model for now to get you out of such bad putting. Putting is insanely simple. Almost too simple. Anyone that uses different grips or funky stances are just making it harder on themselves IMO. Just putt the ball! The real skill is in the vision and ability one has to see the green well. That is the only thing that separates a good putter from a great putter IMO.

You will be a great player once you become a low 30's putter if you're hitting 10 GIR a round.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

Maybe you could hit less girs. If you put the ball right off the green a lot you can lower your putts easily. ;-)

[achadha7]

You will be a great player once you become a low 30's putter if you're hitting 10 GIR a round.

10 /9 GIR's was a great day for me usually i am abt 6 gir's a round and 50 putts, this day just ruined it for me completely. swing to come today hopefully if i get to the course. will have the caddy film my swing once i am on the green.

[Lihu]

10 /9 GIR's was a great day for me usually i am abt 6 gir's a round and 50 putts, this day just ruined it for me completely. swing to come today hopefully if i get to the course. will have the caddy film my swing once i am on the green.

Nice!

Sorry about the thread hijack.

You don't need to be quite as hostile as you were, but @Lihu, as you know, we welcome differing opinions. Even if you want to learn just from me (which would be dumb), you're given the chance to hear more about what I have to say (and others too) because people discuss, debate, disagree, etc.

So everyone, chill. :) I haven't been offended by anything. Again, we welcome discussion here.

I disagree. It's plenty smart to use science as much as you can.

[achadha7]

Nice!

Sorry about the thread hijack.

no issues. it is supposed to be a calm 100 - 105 high so playing at 3 should be a lil cooler hopefully. if putting sucks today this putter does not come home with me .... you can find it in pieces in the woods or a deep water hazard

[achadha7]

Played today, putting was a lil better 45 putts, total score of 95.

here are the stats. the swing is being uploaded to youtube as i speak. filmed at 4 holes. 2 2putts 1 3 putt

[iacas]

1. Record your putting stroke from a few angles.
2. Put it in your My Swing thread.
3. Link to that post here.