Where to make contact on irons and how?

[Lihu]

of course.  goes without saying.

Are you saying that in comparing the same lofts, that a center shot MB will go farther than the equivalent cavity back?

[mvmac]

Are you saying that in comparing the same lofts, that a center shot MB will go farther than the equivalent cavity back?

Depends on a few factors, one of them being the player's club speed.

[colin007]

Are you saying that in comparing the same lofts, that a center shot MB will go farther than the equivalent cavity back?

More mass near the sweet spot, so yeah...

[Lihu]

Depends on a few factors, one of them being the player's club speed.

Are you indicating that beyond a certain swing speed that the MB have more distance and below that speed the CB/SGI have the advantage? If so, what is that speed just out of curiosity?

More mass near the sweet spot, so yeah...

I am wondering if something else could be at play here too. See above post and question.

[mvmac]

Are you indicating that beyond a certain swing speed that the MB have more distance and below that speed the CB/SGI have the advantage? If so, what is that speed just out of curiosity?

Not necessarily saying that a higher speed player will hit a MB longer, I don't know the exact speed breakdown but a lower speed player will have a harder time getting the ball airborne and keeping it airborne with a MB vs a CB/SGI.

[Reval14]

So if I understand it right, by "spreading" the weight / mass behind the clubface it won't loose as much distance on off center hits. But generally the sweet spot still has the same size or does it get bigger? And how do off center hits feel at impact? Still soft because there is more weight behind the face or how does this work?

[Pretzel]

Not necessarily saying that a higher speed player will hit a MB longer, I don't know the exact speed breakdown but a lower speed player will have a harder time getting the ball airborne and keeping it airborne with a MB vs a CB/SGI.

I'd imagine this would be due in part to a CG that's forward a low (sound like an advertising line yet?) that keeps the spin rate down compared to a low and back CG. This is assuming that the weight being low and forward still reduces spin in an iron the same way it does in a driver. Having that lower spin could make the iron fly further and prevent it from ballooning. I know that the CB/GI irons are usually designed (at least in-part) to help you get the ball off the ground with a higher launch angle so that it can stay in the air longer. I thought that was why the CG on those irons was usually back compared to blades. At any rate, I thought the perimeter weighting was mostly meant to stabilize the face against torsion by increasing the MOI instead of doing anything to the ball flight itself. That is assuming though that the club has the same shape as a blade (like a MP-59 does) with perimeter weighting and no weight moved towards the rear.

[mvmac]

So if I understand it right, by "spreading" the weight / mass behind the clubface it won't loose as much distance on off center hits. But generally the sweet spot still has the same size or does it get bigger? And how do off center hits feel at impact? Still soft because there is more weight behind the face or how does this work?

GI irons tend to transmit less feedback, while a MB iron will "tell" you if you hit it off center. So a blade will feel "harsher" on off center hits.

I'd imagine this would be due in part to a CG that's forward a low (sound like an advertising line yet?) that keeps the spin rate down compared to a low and back CG. This is assuming that the weight being low and forward still reduces spin in an iron the same way it does in a driver.

Having that lower spin could make the iron fly further and prevent it from ballooning. I know that the CB/GI irons are usually designed (at least in-part) to help you get the ball off the ground with a higher launch angle so that it can stay in the air longer. I thought that was why the CG on those irons was usually back compared to blades.

At any rate, I thought the perimeter weighting was mostly meant to stabilize the face against torsion by increasing the MOI instead of doing anything to the ball flight itself. That is assuming though that the club has the same shape as a blade (like a MP-59 does) with perimeter weighting and no weight moved towards the rear.

MB's tend to have a higher CG compared to a GI clubs. GI irons excel is in getting the ball up in the air, and on helping to reduce the error caused by mishits due to their higher MOI. More "resistant" to gear effect.

Also, the GI's lower CG helps effectively raise the "delivered loft" which widens the spin loft and reducing tilt to the ball.

[Lihu]

GI irons tend to transmit less feedback, while a MB iron will "tell" you if you hit it off center. So a blade will feel "harsher" on off center hits.

MB's tend to have a higher CG compared to a GI clubs. GI irons excel is in getting the ball up in the air, and on helping to reduce the error caused by mishits due to their higher MOI. More "resistant" to gear effect.

Also, the GI's lower CG helps effectively raise the "delivered loft" which widens the spin loft and reducing tilt to the ball.

It seems like even some of the CB clubs like the MP-52 hit lower. These clubs all hit lower than the MP-32 which is supposed to be a blade.

I think many forged players clubs are all built like this. I recently tried "playing" the clubs to see if it is even worth using players clubs at all. For me to get a purposeful slice or hook, I had to almost turn the club face 20 to 30 degrees or more. I also lose a lot of distance for the club at hand (60-70% full distance? on longer clubs and about 80% on the shorter clubs). Is this normal, or is it just a lack of skill yet to be developed?

The other thing is bounce seems to have a lot to do with the performance of a club. If I hit off a mat the bounce is a lot stronger and the ball seems to go much higher than when off the grass. The higher bounce clubs behave better in grass than the low bounce clubs. For example, my MP-52 seem to go lower than my MP-32. Both go a lot higher than my Cleveland CG tour which have almost no bounce since they are "real" blades" with a sole that is about half the thickness of the MP-32.

It seems like both CG and bounce play an equal part in getting the ball up in the air?

[Jeremie Boop]

At one point in my golfing I was doing great at hitting down on the ball, was constantly getting shreds of golfball in the grooves of my club. Then I had to take a couple year break from golfing when I moved to Texas and lost that. Now it's a struggle getting back to that.

[golf-noob-bruce]

Well technically, the sweetspot is a point in 3D space...

I don't understand what this means, could you explain?

[Lihu]

I don't understand what this means, could you explain?

It probably means that the sweet spot is actually a vector and not a single point on the face of the club, and that the direction of that vector is not necessarily normal to the club face. It could be pointing in some other direction (probably upwards and towards your pull side), and some other direction on another spot on the club. For example, I suspect the vector point normal near the bottom of the face.

Not sure how much the face on the iron deforms, through.

[billchao]

I don't understand what this means, could you explain?

Sorry, I misspoke. I meant center of gravity.

[Reval14]

I don't understand what this means, could you explain?

It means the center of gravity isn't on the clubface, it's inside the clubhead.

[billchao]

It means the center of gravity isn't on the clubface, it's inside the clubhead.

Yes, thank you. Basically the whole point of that post by me that @golf-noob-bruce quoted was that you can't test the club's CoG by poking at it. Yes, the sweetspot is typically around the area, but due to variations in club design, the sweetspot may not be perfectly centered around the CoG. Therefore, you may poke at the sweetspot of the club and still cause it to torque.

[Lihu]

Yes, thank you.

Basically the whole point of that post by me that @golf-noob-bruce quoted was that you can't test the club's CoG by poking at it. Yes, the sweetspot is typically around the area, but due to variations in club design, the sweetspot may not be perfectly centered around the CoG. Therefore, you may poke at the sweetspot of the club and still cause it to torque.

This would definitely be something fun to test.

[billchao]

This would definitely be something fun to test.

You and I have different definitions of "fun" it seems ;-)