Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 4171 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted
Uh,oh.  Can feel it coming...another censure.   The ultimate answer for the weak minded antagonist with some pull.   (please don't say I must explain that last line as well for heaven's sake)  It is bad enough to debate you self absorbed, egotistical types as it is.  To explain my responses to your shallow minds is simply just to much for me to bare at times.  Get a student loan for God's sake and take some courses in logic and or philosophy. PLEASE.   Or stick to the subject of....golf.  Hey, that's it!  Stick to golf.

I'm not sure why you're off on a rampage here. I'm disengaging before it gets uglier.

- Shane

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Uh,oh.  Can feel it coming...another censure.   The ultimate answer for the weak minded antagonist with some pull.   (please don't say I must explain that last line as well for heaven's sake)  It is bad enough to debate you self absorbed, egotistical types as it is.  To explain my responses to your shallow minds is simply just to much for me to bare at times.  Get a student loan for God's sake and take some courses in logic and or philosophy. PLEASE.   Or stick to the subject of....golf.  Hey, that's it!  Stick to golf.

I was wondering when the attention tank would start running low.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I was removed from a golf forum several years ago. The folks running the site were promoting some drink that was supposed to make you a better golfer. They had all kinds of connections in the golfing world. Gave away all kinds of nice prizes. Had member golf outings in various parts of the country. At some point the folks promoting the drink said it was so good that they "just had to have it first thing in the morning" and through out the day. I mentioned something to the effect that it sounded like a drink that could become habit forming. Just a simple remark. That was it for me on that golf forum. They ran me off, post haste. (We also had some previous words about their resident swing guru flaming  other members swing advice, then changing the verbiage, and using it for their own swing guru instruction)

That's when I decided that any forum I was posting on, I would not care what other members of the forum thought of my posts. Good, bad, or indifferent. Did not matter what the subject matter of the forum was about. I post what I know is good information, and that's good enough for me. My opinions are my own, and not meant to crinkle anyone's shorts. Different opinions on any forum are not a life, and death struggle. Opinions differ in context from one individual, and are, in some instances, just another form of entertainment for those folks involved.

Back in April when I felt I was physically able to get back into the game of golf, I googled for golf forums and TST came up. I decided to give it try. I just wanted to see what might have changed while I was away from the game. As it turns out not much had changed over the past few years. IMHO, TST is a decent site, with great members/contributors, and from what I have  seen so far, has the test of time on it's side.

If it doesn't look and taste like good beer, no way. :beer:

Or we could be an administrator and simply ban someone from a post when they expose weakness in our logic.

What I have observed is when someone makes personal attacks rather than sticking with the topics at hand they get "restricted" from a thread. If they sign up multiple times or are intentional trolls they are banned from this site. This is why we have more intelligent golf related discussions on this site.

I feel bad for the people who are banned, but they know that if they present something that contradicts a theory supported by this site then they need to support their suppositions with facts. This is a minimum requirement to have a reasonable discussion showing what aspects of their theories are correct. Then someone like Erik can discuss possible flaws or contradicting data in an intelligent manner.

It can be pretty futile if the discussion centers around non-fact based references, and this futility can lead to a lot of personal attacks which is not conducive to a good learning environment for many of us.

I sign onto this site to learn golf related things, and not watch people squabble over who they know and that's why they are right.

The banning is a tactic used to protect the rest of us, and not to "win" arguments.

One example is an instructor that showed a method that you keep your hips and lower body absolutely static. This looked like a method that could lead to serious injury. The promoter was eventually banned from this site.

I lurked around on a few golf sites for a year or two, never posting, just reading tips and usefull info! When I came across this site it was soon apparent that it's the best one out there, it has a wealth of knowledge and instruction from some really clued up guys! I was soon checking in regularly and still do and my game is improving because of it! I don't kiss anyone's ass but it's quite obvious to me that Eric and mike, amongst several others, make this site what it is, and I am, until now, quietly grateful for all their efforts!

I got some abuse when I first came on because people thought I was a bit... Unlikeable? My comments are always light hearted in nature, but! they can and do appear different in writing! (Something else I've learnt on here!)

And so, on this forum, and others I presume, we should all leave our egos at the door and jump in! To me, it seems to be simply about learning, and having a bit of fun, and if you insist on bringing your ego with you, prepare to have bashed a bit!

If I didn't know you were from the UK (I presume Britain), your statements could appear very insulting. You have never talked to me that way, but I certainly have read your posts and got a good chuckle out of them. :beer:

Not some of the reactions, though. :whistle:

I don't think I have any friends on here besides Nate (I think he's doing it for community service or some thing like that probably to avoid some serious time) and I haven't notice what your implying.  Give me an example if you don't mind.

Do you mean Cyber-pals? If so, I'm hurt you don't consider more of us?

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Do you mean Cyber-pals? If so, I'm hurt you don't consider more of us?

Well I guess now I have 3. :banana: Im not a social media guy so when my wife says my Facebook friend I don't understand what that means. Maybe after today I do :-D

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Well I guess now I have 3.  Im not a social media guy so when my wife says my Facebook friend I don't understand what that means. Maybe after today I do


At least 3. :dance:

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Uh,oh.  Can feel it coming...another censure.   The ultimate answer for the weak minded antagonist with some pull.   (please don't say I must explain that last line as well for heaven's sake)  It is bad enough to debate you self absorbed, egotistical types as it is.  To explain my responses to your shallow minds is simply just to much for me to bare bear at times.  Get a student loan for God's sake and take some courses in logic and or philosophy. PLEASE.   Or stick to the subject of....golf.  Hey, that's it!  Stick to golf.

There. All better now.


Posted

Some of you guys really do take this too seriously.  I play with logic, phrases, and words to try and see what kind of response I may get.    I have only experimented with this in The Grill Room.  I kinda thought it looked like a fun place to play.  Well, I've tried to get a few goats just for the fun of it, cause I don't do it in the other areas due to my being golf minded in the other places.  I have very much enjoyed and benefited from what I have learned from many of you in the forum.

I promise not to banter in The Grill Room again.  Not because I feel guilty for having been mischievous, but because I see that not everyone can pick up on certain humor.  I know in real life there are people who love my sense of humor and those who think I am totally off the scale.  It just depends on who one is and how they see life in general.  I have worked with many people who simply cannot laugh at themselves for fears only they are aware of.  Some of them are not even aware.  I totally understand these principles in relationship to the individuals themselves and their relationship to the world as they view it.  I fault no one for the way they see others and the world.  We are all different.  Diversity is one of the things that makes the world worthwhile.  How boring it would be if we all thought alike, eh?

I propose we all embrace (or at least tolerate) our vast experience in life and our individuality in thought.  And I promise to not relive my times on a debate team in grad school while I am in the Trap.

To all my brothers in the wonderful game of golf,

---Matt


Posted

To all my brothers in the wonderful game of golf,

---Matt

I'll drink to that! :beer:

Enjoy more of this site, too.

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I always enjoy the proclamation of wit from a great logician.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Some of you guys really do take this too seriously.  I play with logic, phrases, and words to try and see what kind of response I may get.    I have only experimented with this in The Grill Room.  I kinda thought it looked like a fun place to play.  Well, I've tried to get a few goats just for the fun of it, cause I don't do it in the other areas due to my being golf minded in the other places.  I have very much enjoyed and benefited from what I have learned from many of you in the forum.

I promise not to banter in The Grill Room again.  Not because I feel guilty for having been mischievous, but because I see that not everyone can pick up on certain humor.  I know in real life there are people who love my sense of humor and those who think I am totally off the scale.  It just depends on who one is and how they see life in general.  I have worked with many people who simply cannot laugh at themselves for fears only they are aware of.  Some of them are not even aware.  I totally understand these principles in relationship to the individuals themselves and their relationship to the world as they view it.  I fault no one for the way they see others and the world.  We are all different.  Diversity is one of the things that makes the world worthwhile.  How boring it would be if we all thought alike, eh?

I propose we all embrace (or at least tolerate) our vast experience in life and our individuality in thought.  And I promise to not relive my times on a debate team in grad school while I am in the Trap.

To all my brothers in the wonderful game of golf,

---Matt

I think this thread is proof enough that you are different. :-P

In case you can't tell I'm just giving you some grief.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I always enjoy the proclamation of wit from a great logician.

Quit using big words I don't like having to think on a Friday afternoon. :doh:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I always enjoy the proclamation of wit from a great logician.

Just curious... who is the guy in your avatar that looks like he is smelling a dead cat under his chair?


Posted

Just curious... who is the guy in your avatar that looks like he is smelling a dead cat under his chair?

James

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Quit using big words I don't like having to think on a Friday afternoon.


Who's thinking right now? I'm just filling out mindless quarter end forms until beer-thirty. :beer:

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Who's thinking right now? I'm just filling out mindless quarter end forms until beer-thirty.

It is obvious that I abhor thinking.  Why would youse guys want to think?


Posted

James

Heard of him but not had the pleasure to meet him yet.  I thought he somehow looked familiar tho.  Thanks.


Posted
James

Moriaaaarrrrrtyyyyyyy.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 4171 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Day 1: 2025.12.26 Worked on LH position on grip, trying to keep fingers closer to perpendicular to the club. Feels awkward but change is meant to.
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.