The Official (Not Official At All) Drugs & Alcohol Thread

[newtogolf]

In theory, I can kind of agree with you. But there are some very dangerous drugs which should remain illegal. Misuse of heroin even once can kill someone, for example.

In reality, we know this will never happen anyway. It would not be accepted socially, and would never garner enough political support for change. Pot, yes. Everything else, not a chance.

I agree, it's not going to happen but I wish it would.

Here in NY heroin is the #2 drug in high schools.  It's cheap and kids can easily gain access to it.  It appears they start with pot, progress to their parents pain killers and switch to heroin when their parents supply of pain killers dry up.  Parents are all buying naloxone kits so they can save their kids when (not if) they overdose.  My wife's friend has had to use the kit twice on her daughter.  It's a horrible drug, ruins their lives but it's so addictive they can't stop after they try it.

[zipazoid]

Yes, heroin is a horrible highly addictive drug. It obviously is never going to be legal.

There is a socially-acceptable middle ground, I believe, and Colorado & Washington have found it. Simply by decriminalizing pot so many law enforcement/prison resources can be freed up - we are by far the country with the highest incarceration rate in the world - which tells me it's one of two things -

Either Americans are ridiculously more immoral/illegal than the rest of the world....or we have ridiculously punitive drug laws.

[Spyder]

Yes, heroin is a horrible highly addictive drug. It obviously is never going to be legal.

There is a socially-acceptable middle ground, I believe, and Colorado & Washington have found it. Simply by decriminalizing pot so many law enforcement/prison resources can be freed up - we are by far the country with the highest incarceration rate in the world - which tells me it's one of two things -

Either Americans are ridiculously more immoral/illegal than the rest of the world....or we have ridiculously punitive drug laws.

I'm going to guess the latter. Especially when applied toward the marijuana debate.

[zipazoid]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-lava/marijuana-incarceration_b_2459214.html

Quote:

In all, nearly 65 million Americans have a criminal record.

That's about 20% of all Americans.

[phan52]

Yes, heroin is a horrible highly addictive drug. It obviously is never going to be legal.

There is a socially-acceptable middle ground, I believe, and Colorado & Washington have found it. Simply by decriminalizing pot so many law enforcement/prison resources can be freed up - we are by far the country with the highest incarceration rate in the world - which tells me it's one of two things -

Either Americans are ridiculously more immoral/illegal than the rest of the world....or we have ridiculously punitive drug laws.

This. And as I've said before, our 30 year war on drugs have had unintended consequences all around the world, not just here.

[RonTheSavage]

The War on Drugs that the CIA was invloved in going back to Iran Contra? Im reading Dark Alliance right now and it's about a reporter Gary Webb who worte a series of artlicles about this subject publised in the San Jose Mercury News. He investigated Nicaraguans linked to the CIA-backed Contras who had smuggled cocaine into the U.S. which was then distributed as crack cocaine into Los Angeles and funneled profits to the Contras. The CIA was aware of the cocaine transactions and the large shipments of drugs into the U.S. by the Contra personnel and directly aided drug dealers to raise money for the Contras. On December 10, 2004, Webb reportedly committed suicide, albeit under strange circumstances (two gunshot wounds to the head).[7]

[jusanothajoe]

I'm not directing this at you, but people in general seem more approving of things they have done themselves.  Those that occasionally smoke pot think there's nothing wrong with it, those that eat 4 Big Macs and 2 large fries think it's okay, those that like to drink a 6 pack regularly see little issue with it.

We all condone our own behaviors to some degree because we want to see ourselves in a positive light but that doesn't mean it's a good behavior.

And all the peoples said Amen

[Aguirre]

The United States has the largest documented incarceration rate in the world.  We have roughly 4% of the world's population, yet have 25% of the prison population.  The majority of these are non-violent offenders.  The completely failed and useless War on Drugs, mandatory minimums, and the parasitic industry that is law enforcement are why the prison population has skyrocketed over the last several decades.  Land of the free, my ass.

The simple act of shooting up heroin is no worse than pouring yourself a fine glass of wine, unless you have a weird view that types of mind altering drugs have a morality on their own.  The fact that drug addicts often commit secondary crimes to fuel their habit is no more relevant than dumb drunks getting behind the wheel.

The War on Drugs is probably the most devastating act of spending that our government does destroying our economy.  Probably slightly worse than the endless wars for peace and the military industrial complex, definitely worse than the bloated individual and corporate welfare machine.  Despite all their efforts, any one of us could buy illicit narcotics within a few hours if we wanted.  Personally, I don't know where to find the more hard stuff, but I do know people who could let me know.  So if the concept was to end drug abuse, a disturbingly parentalistic goal for a state to begin with (government stepping in to tell you what and what not to put in your body), it has failed miserably.  Every DEA agent, every narco cop, every Federal prosecutor who has imprisoned non-violent drug offenders has wasted their professional life, and done more harm than good.

The fact that prohibitionism is still debated by otherwise intelligent people in 2014 is a disgrace.

[Grndslmhttr3]

The simple act of shooting up heroin is no worse than pouring yourself a fine glass of wine

uh

[Aguirre]

uh

Are you an adult?  Can you read and do your own research?  Or do you need the government, with the threat of violence, to hold your hand through every decision on what you put into your body?

[RJH999]

The United States has the largest documented incarceration rate in the world.  We have roughly 4% of the world's population, yet have 25% of the prison population.  The majority of these are non-violent offenders.  The completely failed and useless War on Drugs, mandatory minimums, and the parasitic industry that is law enforcement are why the prison population has skyrocketed over the last several decades.  Land of the free, my ass. The simple act of shooting up heroin is no worse than pouring yourself a fine glass of wine, unless you have a weird view that types of mind altering drugs have a morality on their own.  The fact that drug addicts often commit secondary crimes to fuel their habit is no more relevant than dumb drunks getting behind the wheel.   The War on Drugs is probably the most devastating act of spending that our government does destroying our economy.  Probably slightly worse than the endless wars for peace and the military industrial complex, definitely worse than the bloated individual and corporate welfare machine.  Despite all their efforts, any one of us could buy illicit narcotics within a few hours if we wanted.  Personally, I don't know where to find the more hard stuff, but I do know people who could let me know.  So if the concept was to end drug abuse, a disturbingly parentalistic goal for a state to begin with (government stepping in to tell you what and what not to put in your body), it has failed miserably.  Every DEA agent, every narco cop, every Federal prosecutor who has imprisoned non-violent drug offenders has wasted their professional life, and done more harm than good.   The fact that prohibitionism is still debated by otherwise intelligent people in 2014 is a disgrace.

"Instead of War on Poverty, they gotta War on Drugs so the police can bother ME?"

[Aguirre]

"Instead of War on Poverty, they gotta War on Drugs so the police can bother ME?"

What's that quote from?

Anyway, the War on Poverty has also been a disaster.  And the War on Terror.  And the War on x, y, z.  I wish the government would simply stop wars on nouns.

[Grndslmhttr3]

Are you an adult?  Can you read and do your own research?  Or do you need the government, with the threat of violence, to hold your hand through every decision on what you put into your body?

That post was more so me being dumbfounded by your asinine comparison between shooting up heroin and pouring a glass of wine than anything else

[RJH999]

What's that quote from? Anyway, the War on Poverty has also been a disaster.  And the War on Terror.  And the War on x, y, z.  I wish the government would simply stop wars on nouns.

Changes-Tupac. STOP ALL WAR!! WAR IS AWFUL! WAR HAS NEVER HELPED ANYONE EVER! WAR IS FOR IDIOTS! PEACE MAN. just kidding

[Aguirre]

That post was more so me being dumbfounded by your asinine comparison between shooting up heroin and pouring a glass of wine than anything else

Tell me why shooting heroin is morally wrong, while drinking wine is morally acceptable.  And do it without being inconsistent in your ethical positions. I'm trapping you a bit, because I don't believe you can.

[Grndslmhttr3]

Tell me why shooting heroin is morally wrong, while drinking wine is morally acceptable.  And do it without being inconsistent in your ethical positions. I'm trapping you a bit, because I don't believe you can.

Heroin is a more addictive and lethal substance (which would be harmful to the user and others close to the user), and the amount used in shooting up can be dangerously close to what would lead to an overdose, if it isn't already. Drinking a glass of wine wouldn't even have a very noticeable effect. While alcohol abuse is a serious matter, I don't think any rational person would consider drinking "a fine glass of wine" to be anywhere close to that, nor would they consider drinking a single glass of wine to be akin to shooting up heroin. Can a single glass of wine eventually lead to alcohol abuse? Sure, I suppose it can, but which do you think is more likely to lead to abuse, a single glass of wine or shooting up heroin once?

Now, what makes you think heroin is no worse than drinking a glass of wine?

[Golfingdad]

Tell me why shooting heroin is morally wrong, while drinking wine is morally acceptable.  And do it without being inconsistent in your ethical positions. I'm trapping you a bit, because I don't believe you can.

Heroin is a more addictive and lethal substance (which would be harmful to the user and others close to the user), and the amount used in shooting up can be dangerously close to what would lead to an overdose, if it isn't already. Drinking a glass of wine wouldn't even have a very noticeable effect. While alcohol abuse is a serious matter, I don't think any rational person would consider drinking "a fine glass of wine" to be anywhere close to that, nor would they consider drinking a single glass of wine to be akin to shooting up heroin. Can a single glass of wine eventually lead to alcohol abuse? Sure, I suppose it can, but which do you think is more likely to lead to abuse, a single glass of wine or shooting up heroin once?

Now, what makes you think heroin is no worse than drinking a glass of wine?

I'll try and give this a shot as well ...

I'm gonna say supply and demand.  Demand creates the need for supply and to get or create heroin, I'm going to assume there are bad people down there in SA doing bad things.  Am I right??  (Nope, I'm not.  Apparently, Afghanistan is the World's largest producer of Heroin.  Go figure.  Also, Southeast Asia, Mexico and Colombia.  OK, not totally wrong ;))  Anyways, production and trafficking leads to some shady things happening, that were it not for the demand, wouldn't be happening.

Wine, on the other hand, is just created by old dudes growing grapes on a farm.  No harm there.

I don't know, just thought I'd give it a try. ;)

[RJH999]

I'll try and give this a shot as well ... I'm gonna say supply and demand.  Demand creates the need for supply and to get or create heroin, I'm going to assume there are bad people down there in SA doing bad things.  Am I right??  (Nope, I'm not.  Apparently, Afghanistan is the World's largest producer of Heroin.  Go figure.  Also, Southeast Asia, Mexico and Colombia.  OK, not totally wrong ;))  Anyways, production and trafficking leads to some shady things happening, that were it not for the demand, wouldn't be happening. Wine, on the other hand, is just created by old dudes growing grapes on a farm.  No harm there. I don't know, just thought I'd give it a try. ;)

China's huge on heroin too, I think it's their largest drug...Burma too.....Mexico's quickly turning into New Colombia....