DQ'd For Using Two Caddies.

[Patch]

Some years back, a PGA player was DQ'd for using two caddies. The scenario went something (not sure) like this. The player and his caddy had a friend walking with them. I think the caddy was the golfer's son, and friend was the son's friend. At some point the golfer passed the club to the friend, who passed it to the caddy, hence the player used two caddies and was DQ'd. Not sure if a wrong score card attributed to the DQ.

Here's my question. Scenario; during a swing, the golfer loses his grip, and the club flies off the fairway into the gallery. If someone other than the golfer, or his caddy picks up the club, and hands it to the player, who then hands it to his caddy is that the same as using two caddies?

Just curios.

[rogolf]

Some years back, a PGA player was DQ'd for using two caddies. The scenario went something (not sure) like this. The player and his caddy had a friend walking with them. I think the caddy was the golfer's son, and friend was the son's friend. At some point the golfer passed the club to the friend, who passed it to the caddy, hence the player used two caddies and was DQ'd. Not sure if a wrong score card attributed to the DQ.

Here's my question. Scenario; during a swing, the golfer loses his grip, and the club flies off the fairway into the gallery. If someone other than the golfer, or his caddy picks up the club, and hands it to the player, who then hands it to his caddy is that the same as using two caddies?

Just curios.

No, not the same circumstances.

[imsys0042]

Probably like the rules about your club touching sand in a bunker or hitting part of a hazard. If it's accidental, no penalty. John Daly dropped his club in a bunker and wasn't penalized because he dropped it. Wasn't trying to test the sand. Having someone walking with you is a bit over the line to begin with

[ColinL]

Probably like the rules about your club touching sand in a bunker or hitting part of a hazard. If it's accidental, no penalty. John Daly dropped his club in a bunker and wasn't penalized because he dropped it. Wasn't trying to test the sand.

Having someone walking with you is a bit over the line to begin with

Think again! Dropping a club is not the same thing as, say, touching the ground of a hazard with your backswing which, accidental or not, is penalised.

[tristanhilton85]

This sounds like a mefree kind of question...

[imsys0042]

Think again! Dropping a club is not the same thing as, say, touching the ground of a hazard with your backswing which, accidental or not, is penalised.

Correct. That's what I said. If you accidentally drop your club, it's fine. If you use your club to ground the club in a hazard, change anything on the ground or the sand, it's a penalty.

[David in FL]

Correct. That's what I said. If you accidentally drop your club, it's fine. If you use your club to ground the club in a hazard, change anything on the ground or the sand, it's a penalty.

Accidentally grounding your club in the hazard is still a penalty.....

[edwjmcgrath]

Correct. That's what I said. If you accidentally drop your club, it's fine. If you use your club to ground the club in a hazard, change anything on the ground or the sand, it's a penalty.

Touching the ground with a club while the club is in your hand is grounding.  If you toss it in the hazard, that's not grounding as long as it's not in your hand when it touches the ground.

[ColinL]

Correct. That's what I said. If you accidentally drop your club, it's fine. If you use your club to ground the club in a hazard, change anything on the ground or the sand, it's a penalty.

Yes, thanks. I know I was correct.

But the sentence I highlighted in your posting did not say what you maybe thought it said and was incorrect.

[tomvk77]

Well if the guy was walking with them and he took the club out off the bag, you could say he gave the advice to play that club.

If he loses his grip and the club flies in the crowd he basically made the club selection already.

think you should see it in this way

[imsys0042]

Super, thanks all. My point was about intent. Dropping a club in a bunker accidentally is not intending to test the sand, and brushing growing grass in a hazard is not intent on a backswing to cheat. For the penalty assessed in the first post, a friend is with the player and the caddy. I think that is wrong to begin with, but there is deliberate intent by handing your club to someone else and perform a caddy's duties. Flinging a club and someone else picks it up has no such intent.

[ColinL]

. Dropping a club in a bunker accidentally is not intending to test the sand, and brushing growing grass in a hazard is not intent on a backswing to cheat........

.........and is not a breach of a Rule.

I think your focusing on intent is misleading you a bit.  Touching the ground of a hazard with hand or club when your ball is in the same hazard is a breach of Rule 13-4 whether accidental or deliberate.  Intent doesn't come into it.

Whether  touched accidentally or deliberately there is no penalty for touching growing grass in a hazard.  See the Note to the Exceptions to Rule 13-4.

[Draftstone]

Just wondering where this 2 caddie rule stops.

Last week at the barclay's, a player (sorry can't remember his name) hit a shot out of a greenside bunker. After his shot, he went on the green to mark his ball and since his ball was dirty he looked at his caddie to clean it, but his caddie was busy raking the bunker. The other player's caddie made him a sign and the player threw his ball to the other caddie, that cleaned it and threw it back to the player.

Would that be a breach of the rule of using a single caddie, or since it was simply for cleaning a ball and no club/putting line questions were discussed, everything was fine?

[iacas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draftstone

Just wondering where this 2 caddie rule stops.

Last week at the barclay's, a player (sorry can't remember his name) hit a shot out of a greenside bunker. After his shot, he went on the green to mark his ball and since his ball was dirty he looked at his caddie to clean it, but his caddie was busy raking the bunker. The other player's caddie made him a sign and the player threw his ball to the other caddie, that cleaned it and threw it back to the player.

Would that be a breach of the rule of using a single caddie, or since it was simply for cleaning a ball and no club/putting line questions were discussed, everything was fine?

That's commonly done and perfectly acceptable. Just as another caddie can tend the flag for you.

Quote:

A “ caddie ” is one who assists the player in accordance with the Rules , which may include carrying or handling the player’s clubs during play.

When one caddie is employed by more than one player, he is always deemed to be the caddie of the player sharing the caddie whose ball (or whose partner’s ball) is involved, and equipment carried by him is deemed to be that player’s equipment , except when the caddie acts upon specific directions of another player (or the partner of another player) sharing the caddie , in which case he is considered to be that other player’s caddie .

[joekelly]

Slightly OT, but if my ball in greenside bunker A, and i'm nearby to bunker B, can i take practice swings including, into the sand, in bunker B without penalty?

[David in FL]

Slightly OT, but if my ball in greenside bunker A, and i'm nearby to bunker B, can i take practice swings including, into the sand, in bunker B without penalty?

No.

[ColinL]

See Rule 13-4a, Joe.

[edwjmcgrath]

Since not everyone has the rules of golf bookmarked, here's 13-4a (edited to only include the relevant parts):

13-4 . Ball In Hazard; Prohibited Actions

..., before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard ...the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard ;