I need a new driver

[Mr. Desmond]

This might be the reason X100 seems to work for me. Even the X100 is just starting to get a little bit whippy at 46". The reason is because of the added weight of the shaft. If the steel were only 48 grams with the same other physical properties, the shaft would be far too stiff for me.

I think this might be the main reason I would advise beginners to use steel shafts, then they can stick with one setup until they get their swings grooved. Steel is way more forgiving and less spinning.

Au contraire...

Steel in a driver? For a beginner?

NO.

Steel is no fun in a driver, it's heavy, and it doesn't launch well for most beginners. You want a beginner to have fun.

Grooved? C'mon. Swinging a lighter shaft will help promote speed, and one can easily groove a swing with 65-75g graphite in a shorter length driver setup.

Once again, some of you are over-reacted to high torque -- it's because of high torque that a beginner does not have to believe he needs to swing hard -- high torque is good -- have you seen some of the shaft for average Joes? High torque. Tthe shaft feels good -- and as a result it is more accurate than a low torque, heavy steel shaft.

The problem is not with graphite, but with the length of the shaft. I started my eldest with a 43 inch UST senior flex in a Orlimar 10.5 when he was 10. And I think I hit it better than my 45 inch driver. I could take a smooth swing with that lite flex and shorter shaft and hit it down the middle of the fairway every time... It was soooo easy. And my son enjoyed that HipTi head, too.

C'mon...

[saevel25]

A few things,

On torque, the only thing I can see torque doing is reducing the gear effect. Lower torque would mean less the club deflects around the shaft when a strike is not in the center of the clubface. I would say that a slower swing speed can probably play a wider range of torque than a higher swing speed. Just because less gear effect is applied at lower swing speeds.

As for mishits. I am not sure. I think higher torque might help out because on an toe hit it would produce more of a draw spin. I think it depends on the player really.

As for steel versus graphite. Graphite all the way. There is a slight trend that lighter shafts are harder to control, but that depends on the golfer. In some cases golfers found distance and accuracy with a lighter golf shaft. I think steel is overkill, and will rob golfers of their distance. Anyone who has read, "Lowest Score Wins", @Lihu , remember distance out weights accuracy, 20 yards to 1 degree.

For the length of the shaft. I would say it depends on the golfer. I am sure some golfers are accurate with longer shafts, but there is probably a slight trend towards them being harder to control.

[Pretzel]

As for steel versus graphite. Graphite all the way. There is a slight trend that lighter shafts are harder to control, but that depends on the golfer. In some cases golfers found distance and accuracy with a lighter golf shaft.

I can't hit any shaft over 80 grams worth a darn in a driver. That said, the sweet spot for me is around 65-70 grams, since anything under 60 and it's the same way for me.

[Lihu]

Au contraire...

Steel in a driver? For a beginner?

NO.

Steel is no fun in a driver, it's heavy, and it doesn't launch well for most beginners. You want a beginner to have fun.

Grooved? C'mon. Swinging a lighter shaft will help promote speed, and one can easily groove a swing with 65-75g graphite in a shorter length driver setup.

Once again, some of you are over-reacted to high torque -- it's because of high torque that a beginner does not have to believe he needs to swing hard -- high torque is good -- have you seen some of the shaft for average Joes? High torque. Tthe shaft feels good -- and as a result it is more accurate than a low torque, heavy steel shaft.

The problem is not with graphite, but with the length of the shaft. I started my eldest with a 43 inch UST senior flex in a Orlimar 10.5 when he was 10. And I think I hit it better than my 45 inch driver. I could take a smooth swing with that lite flex and shorter shaft and hit it down the middle of the fairway every time... It was soooo easy. And my son enjoyed that HipTi head, too.

C'mon...

What is easier to swing on a single fixed plane? A 5/16" wooden dowel with a heavy ball attached to it or a broomstick? This is how I compare using a regular flex titanium headed club versus a steel shafted club also with a huge forgiving titanium head.

A beginner has effectively no keys (5SK), and that is the first step towards playing the game. He needs keys. The simplest way to build the keys is to swing slowly at first and build up speed while maintaining the keys.

Yes, I agree that someone going out on the golf course might hit one or two longer shots with a standard setup, but the majority of the shots he makes with a slower swing will be much more reliable. Of course he might only drive 150 yards, but at least he can do it more consistently than a regular flex graphite driver that he on occasion hits 180 yards.

If you are concerned with distance for the beginner that person should be using an X100 shaft with a 600cc head on it (or larger than 600cc).

A few things,

On torque, the only thing I can see torque doing is reducing the gear effect. Lower torque would mean less the club deflects around the shaft when a strike is not in the center of the clubface. I would say that a slower swing speed can probably play a wider range of torque than a higher swing speed. Just because less gear effect is applied at lower swing speeds.

As for mishits. I am not sure. I think higher torque might help out because on an toe hit it would produce more of a draw spin. I think it depends on the player really.

As for steel versus graphite. Graphite all the way. There is a slight trend that lighter shafts are harder to control, but that depends on the golfer. In some cases golfers found distance and accuracy with a lighter golf shaft. I think steel is overkill, and will rob golfers of their distance. Anyone who has read, "Lowest Score Wins", @Lihu , remember distance out weights accuracy, 20 yards to 1 degree.

For the length of the shaft. I would say it depends on the golfer. I am sure some golfers are accurate with longer shafts, but there is probably a slight trend towards them being harder to control.

Yes, I did read it.

Note that the rank beginner should be learning 5SK. Once they get a reasonable swing, they should get fitted. If you have 0 keys you really don't have much of a shot dispersion that you can depend upon. Kind of hard to base a strategy on a 150 yard slice and 180 yard hook off the tee. So, I'm not really sure what good it does to get a fitted graphite club before you have any kind of a swing.

Steel is cheap enough to put on a 7075 aluminum club sold in those beginners sets, it will be consistent with the huge steel shafts and heads they put on them too. Beginners sets should have a cheap 7075 (Aluminum alloy) 600cc or bigger heads with a steel shaft on it. This will give the beginner a decent chance to groove a swing.

I am experimenting with this on my G10 12 degree (X100 shaft might need S300 or R300), and two beginning golfers. They both hit straight and about 180 yards. Hoping that a bigger head will improve their distances, but that's another experiment. . . I am just hoping that they will get good enough to want to get formal lessons.

I can't hit any shaft over 80 grams worth a darn in a driver. That said, the sweet spot for me is around 65-70 grams, since anything under 60 and it's the same way for me.

Yeah, but you're not a beginner, and your swing is pretty fast.

[Mr. Desmond]

Rule 1: Don't argue with engineers... Just say, "can't argue with that logic."

One may use a heavier training aid club for off the course use ... heck I use an orange whip, but no to the steel club on course. But this discussion was about torque and accuracy to begin...

Bu-Bye...

[vangator]

If a player has good tempo, then torque is not as much of a factor. But torque is real. I think there is a reason the pros don't use graphite irons. I think a big factor is torque. A driver is typically a very controlled swing in terms that the player mostly repeats the swing. Irons are a different story. The conditions dictate what kind of swing is made. Torque very much comes into play when you're changing your swing speeds, trying to fade, draw, punch etc.

[Mr. Desmond]

If a player has good tempo, then torque is not as much of a factor. But torque is real. I think there is a reason the pros don't use graphite irons. I think a big factor is torque. A driver is typically a very controlled swing in terms that the player mostly repeats the swing. Irons are a different story. The conditions dictate what kind of swing is made. Torque very much comes into play when you're changing your swing speeds, trying to fade, draw, punch etc.

It's not torque... it's what they grew up with... you'd be surprised. They are under similar illusions or don't think about it. Steel is traditional, it is acceptable. People, in general, don't like change unless it gets them more yardage (see new driver)

KBS C taper -- torque 1.9

Aerotech Steelfiber i110 torque 1.9

Steelfiber i95 torque 2.2

Recoil Prototype 95 torque 2.4

Options are out there...

[mvmac]

A driver is typically a very controlled swing in terms that the player mostly repeats the swing. Irons are a different story. The conditions dictate what kind of swing is made. Torque very much comes into play when you're changing your swing speeds, trying to fade, draw, punch etc.

Your swing doesn't vary greatly when hitting irons. Even a bogey golfer has a "repeatable" swing.

[vangator]

Your swing doesn't vary greatly when hitting irons. Even a bogey golfer has a "repeatable" swing.

For your stock swing I agree, but there are plenty of situations where you may need to hit a hard iron. That typically means a lot of club head acceleration, which means torque is a factor. Graphite with low torque is pretty pricey and I'm cheap.