Rules Question about Putting from Fringe

[colin007]

So are you saying that you can use line of putt and line of play interchangeably?

im no rulesguy, but im guessing that on the green, they are the same thing.

[Dormie1360]

The line of play exists for a ball lying anywhere without restriction, which includes a ball on a putting green. The line of putt exists only for a ball on the putting green.  Seldom do we apply rules governing line of play for a ball on the green because R16-1, which deals specifically with the line of putt is usually sufficient.

An example, however, of where the line of play is used in a ruling on the green is D16-1a/4

16-1a/4

Removing Casual Water from Hole

Q.A player, whose ball lies on the putting green, removes casual water from the hole without touching the inside of the hole. Is this permissible?

A.As the player has not touched the line of putt , he is not in breach of Rule 16-1a . However, the player is in breach of Rule 13-2 which prohibits improving the line of play by removing water. The player incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play.

Another difference is the line of play extends vertically upward and the line of putt does not.   The latter is a line on the ground.

[joekelly]

Dormie, would you also say that the line of play extends beyond hole?  I mean if removing water from the cup, let's say by a drinking straw on the far side of the cup,  away from the ball, constitutes messing with line of play, that implies such a line extends to .....where?  That decision on water removal seems crazy to me.

And does not the line of putt NOT extend beyond hole?  If not beyond hole, then ends at beginning of hole, or far end or center?

I suppose, realistically , the line of putt must include all of hole as we all have seen ball circle around he damn hole and drop in the far end,  esp on slopes. .

[nick1998bunker]

Can you remove loose impediments with your club? My coach tells us not to but I'm not sure if it's a rule or just a way to keep the team safe.

[ColinL]

I can't answer for why your coach tells you not to, but it  is not because it is a breach of the rules. You can remove loose impediments any way you like, including with a club,  provided you do not do anything that would improve your lie or  line of play/putt  - for example  by pressing down a bump on the ground or, off the green, by moving sand or soil at the same time

I would say that the commonest way of removing loose impediments  I see  is with a club.  Given the effort these days of bending down, I'm rather glad it is allowed.

[luu5]

im no rulesguy, but im guessing that on the green, they are the same thing.

Yep, in this case OP was not on green.

[luu5]

Dormie, would you also say that the line of play extends beyond hole?  I mean if removing water from the cup, let's say by a drinking straw on the far side of the cup,  away from the ball, constitutes messing with line of play, that implies such a line extends to .....where?  That decision on water removal seems crazy to me.

And does not the line of putt NOT extend beyond hole?  If not beyond hole, then ends at beginning of hole, or far end or center?

I suppose, realistically , the line of putt must include all of hole as we all have seen ball circle around he damn hole and drop in the far end,  esp on slopes. .

Definitions:

The " line of play " is the direction that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke, plus a reasonable distance on either side of the intended direction. The line of play extends vertically upwards from the ground, but does not extend beyond the hole.

The " line of putt " is the line that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke on the putting green. Except with respect to Rule 16-1e, the line of putt includes a reasonable distance on either side of the intended line. The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole.

To me the cup is on the line (of putt and of play). So if you mess with the cup you mess with either of the lines, depending what you do. Definition says "beyond", i.e. line ends at the far end of the hole. There are other rules (e.g. 1-2) which cover quite well the other side of the hole.

[wadesworld]

Can you remove loose impediments with your club? My coach tells us not to but I'm not sure if it's a rule or just a way to keep the team safe.

As ColinL pointed out, you can remove loose impediments with your club.  I would guess your coach does not want you to do so because someone might claim that in doing so, you improved your line of play by the club pressing something down, or perhaps the movement of the club altering how the grass lays.

[Rulesman]

So are you saying that you can use line of putt and line of play interchangeably?

Line Of Play

The “ line of play ’’ is the direction that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke , plus a reasonable distance on either side of the intended direction. The line of play extends vertically upwards from the ground, but does not extend beyond the hole .

Line Of Putt

The “ line of putt ’’ is the line that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke on the putting green . Except with respect to Rule 16-1e , the line of putt includes a reasonable distance on either side of the intended line. The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole .

[joekelly]

So, Rulesman, would i be in violation if i repaired some nasty spike marks that lay beyond the hole, not within my 'line of putt'?  Considering some putts do not go into hole but, esp on a slope, end exactly opposite original line one could imagine fixing those marks might make a difference, if i missed the putt.

Or, never permitted to fix spike marks anywhere on green prior to holing out?

[ColinL]

So, Rulesman, would i be in violation if i repaired some nasty spike marks that lay beyond the hole, not within my 'line of putt'?  Considering some putts do not go into hole but, esp on a slope, end exactly opposite original line one could imagine fixing those marks might make a difference, if i missed the putt.

Or, never permitted to fix spike marks anywhere on green prior to holing out?

Exactly.  Rule 16-1c is very clear:

Any other damage to the putting green must not be repaired if it might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole.

As you see, the prohibition is not confined to the line of putt, but applies anywhere that might be of assistance - such as beyond the hole.