Ted Bishop removed from office for calling Ian Poulter a lil girl

[iacas]

Does Bishop not have some kind of right to an appeal anyway if he was subjected to a formal disciplinary hearing?

No.

Appeals from the Board of Control. The Board of Directors has the jurisdiction to hear appeals that arise from decisions of the Board of Control. All decisions rendered by the Board of Directors for Code of Ethics appeals shall be final.

[FarawayFairways]

Presumably they're treating it as misconduct as it can't be considered a felony by any stretch, and if it were minor misconduct or 'general' then it seems to suggest he has 15 days to accept the decision or appear with counsel to contest it.

[Lihu]

Presumably they're treating it as misconduct as it can't be considered a felony by any stretch, and if it were minor misconduct or 'general' then it seems to suggest he has 15 days to accept the decision or appear with counsel to contest it.

That seems really harsh.

[iacas]

Presumably they're treating it as misconduct as it can't be considered a felony by any stretch, and if it were minor misconduct or 'general' then it seems to suggest he has 15 days to accept the decision or appear with counsel to contest it.

They're treating it as a code of ethics violation according to Ted Bishop himself. The Board of Directors voted and their decision is final. There will be no contesting of the decision.

[turtleback]

Everything from the PGA (and the people I know in various spots in the PGA) say that's absolutely not the case.

So let me translate that for you. The reason this is being said is because the punishment didn't fit the crime. His punishment was a 9 on the scale of 1-10, while his offense was somewhere in the 3-6 range. So, the conclusion many come to is the same one you came to: that he must have been on the bubble.

That's easier to believe than "The PGA Board of Directors massively over-reacted."

I believe, based on everything I've heard from people (many in confidence) that Bishop was not on the bubble. He was fine. The PGA just reacted very harshly. Too harshly IMO.

Do you have any sense of what caused the over-reaction?

[iacas]

Do you have any sense of what caused the over-reaction?

No.

Maybe the Board of Directors just behaved like lil girls?

[ay33660]

They're treating it as a code of ethics violation according to Ted Bishop himself. The Board of Directors voted and their decision is final.

There will be no contesting of the decision.

Don't know whether there is a back story or not but I do know the Board Of Directors (BOD) has just set a very high standard for current and future BOD and executives of the PGA in regards to future violation of the ethics code. Anything other than immediate expulsion would be inconsistent with the standard set for Bishop.

Wonder how much thought the BOD put into their decision and the ramifications for the future.

I wonder if this standard also filters down to members of the PGA?

[iacas]

I wonder if this standard also filters down to members of the PGA?

No. Nor should it - Ted Bishop's position was different than that of a normal PGA member.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="turtleback" url="/t/77773/ted-bishop-removed-from-office-for-calling-ian-poulter-a-lil-girl/162#post_1070611"]   Do you have any sense of what caused the over-reaction? [/QUOTE] No. Maybe the Board of Directors just behaved like lil girls? ;-)

Lol!

[ay33660]

No. Nor should it - Ted Bishop's position was different than that of a normal PGA member.

I guess a more directed question is whether or not normal PGA members like yourself are bound by the "code of ethics"? Is this something you sign off on before becoming a PGA member and is there a separate code for the board and executive members vs. normal PGA members?

I absolutely agree with your point that the BOD massively over-reacted.

I belong to a professional association (not the PGA as you can tell by my handicap) and I often wonder how long before I get hauled up in front of my association's board for a code of ethic's violation.

[iacas]

I guess a more directed question is whether or not normal PGA members like yourself are bound by the "code of ethics"? Is this something you sign off on before becoming a PGA member and is there a separate code for the board and executive members vs. normal PGA members? I absolutely agree with your point that the BOD massively over-reacted. I belong to a professional association (not the PGA as you can tell by my handicap) and I often wonder how long before I get hauled up in front of my association's board for a code of ethic's violation.

You can read the PGAs code of ethics and procedures and whatnot in the PDF I linked to earlier. All PGA members and apprentices (of which I am the latter) are bound by the code of ethics.

[JonMA1]

I don't know quite how to word this without sounding like a douche, but what if he had tweeted an insult using an ethnic reference instead of a gender one? Would there be as much support for him? If you don't think that referring to a man as "lil girl" or "girly" with derogatory intent won't piss off a lot of women, you clearly haven't been around.

I think this would be a non-issue had he used phrases like "a baby" or "a spoiled brat".

Just so we're clear, I don't care that much either way on this. I think most PC is a shining example how weak our cultures have become. When words can hurt someone so badly that the only recourse is to see that person lose their job, it's just sad. But that's the world we live in. Right or wrong, it could happen to most of us who work for an organization.

Also, I don't really know what the PGA of America's purpose is, but if it has anything to do with growing the sport, those in charge probably have to be careful not to piss off any large segment of the public. Maybe that's what the BOD members were thinking and maybe it wasn't as much of an overreaction.

[Valleygolfer]

It really does not matter what reference he used. As a high ranking official of a public entity you cannot engage in foolish banter. He had to be removed. It was childish to engage in a back and forth publicly as a representative of the PGA. It's a common way to flip shit to other guys this way and honestly think it's nothing in a nonprofessional light. In this case, he is an idiot.

[newtogolf]

I don't know quite how to word this without sounding like a douche, but what if he had tweeted an insult using an ethnic reference instead of a gender one? Would there be as much support for him? If you don't think that referring to a man as "lil girl" or "girly" with derogatory intent won't piss off a lot of women, you clearly haven't been around.

I think this would be a non-issue had he used phrases like "a baby" or "a spoiled brat".

Just so we're clear, I don't care that much either way on this. I think most PC is a shining example how weak our cultures have become. When words can hurt someone so badly that the only recourse is to see that person lose their job, it's just sad. But that's the world we live in. Right or wrong, it could happen to most of us who work for an organization.

Also, I don't really know what the PGA of America's purpose is, but if it has anything to do with growing the sport, those in charge probably have to be careful not to piss off any large segment of the public. Maybe that's what the BOD members were thinking and maybe it wasn't as much of an overreaction.

First you have to agree that "lil girl" is actually derogatory.  I have a daughter, little girls I've been around cry and whine a lot so is that derogatory or a character trait of a girl (2-3)?  If he used girl or woman I could see it being more derogatory.  I can't think of an ethnic insult that would be equivalent of lil girl.

My issue with Bishop is he got involved with the situation at all.  Faldo is a big boy (is that derogatory?) and can defend himself so there was no need for Bishop to call out Poulter in defense of Faldo.  It wasn't Bishop's fight and as PGA President he shouldn't have been in the middle of it.

He also shouldn't have called Poulter any names, derogatory or not.  He could have simply said it's not becoming of a professional golfer to disparage a past champion.

[Golfingdad]

I think this would be a non-issue had he used phrases like "a baby" or "a spoiled brat".

Disagree somewhat.  They may not have over-reacted as much, however, I think it would have been equally as wrong and avoidable.  It's really not that hard to NOT insult people online.

I get into arguments with people on here all of the time, and they sometimes say things that make me want to say something mean, but for the most part I avoid it.  It's really, really, easy to do that.  And I don't even have an important, high-profile job.  If I came on here or twitter and called one of you guys a name, my boss wouldn't care.

So even without consequences, its easy to know not to be dumb enough to insult people on twitter or facebook, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for a guy who is in such a position of stature, because the dude should know better.

[Jeremie Boop]

Disagree somewhat.  They may not have over-reacted as much, however, I think it would have been equally as wrong and avoidable.  It's really not that hard to NOT insult people online.

I get into arguments with people on here all of the time, and they sometimes say things that make me want to say something mean, but for the most part I avoid it.  It's really, really, easy to do that.  And I don't even have an important, high-profile job.  If I came on here or twitter and called one of you guys a name, my boss wouldn't care.

So even without consequences, its easy to know not to be dumb enough to insult people on twitter or facebook, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for a guy who is in such a position of stature, because the dude should know better.

I agree that you really need to use a filter when posting things online. You can easily try to be joking and have it come out seeming like a serious insult. Tone and context is not always *sometime rarely depending the individual reader* well conveyed via text. This can be exacerbated either by lack of knowledge of the person typing/reading and/or the topic being discussed. These are all things that the average person should be thinking about, let alone a person in any public or important position.

[Golfingdad]

I don't know about that, it's a bit of a reach even for a POTUS.  I think the PC movement is so strong at this moment that even Obama would get his hand slapped for making a comment like that if the media were there to capture it on video and broadcast it.

Saying "even Obama" is a really odd way to put that.  If you polled the "gotcha" media people and asked them who they'd want to catch saying something stupid, I would say it's a pretty safe bet that the President of the United States (no matter who it was) would be, far and away, the winner of that poll.

Not so much when you reflect that the same media that hounded Dan Quayle for misspelling potato has hardly noticed the many and varied entertaining gaffes by Mr. Biden.

Wasn't Quayle's gaffe during the campaign?  Nobody gives a rats behind about the vice president after the election, and I remember plenty of coverage of his buffoonery during the elections.

Ahywho's, I'm veering off-topic ...

[trickyputt]

I don't know quite how to word this without sounding like a douche, but what if he had tweeted an insult using an ethnic reference instead of a gender one? Would there be as much support for him? If you don't think that referring to a man as "lil girl" or "girly" with derogatory intent won't piss off a lot of women, you clearly haven't been around. I think this would be a non-issue had he used phrases like "a baby" or "a spoiled brat". Just so we're clear, I don't care that much either way on this. I think most PC is a shining example how weak our cultures have become. When words can hurt someone so badly that the only recourse is to see that person lose their job, it's just sad. But that's the world we live in. Right or wrong, it could happen to most of us who work for an organization. Also, I don't really know what the PGA of America's purpose is, but if it has anything to do with growing the sport, those in charge probably have to be careful not to piss off any large segment of the public. Maybe that's what the BOD members were thinking and maybe it wasn't as much of an overreaction.

you are absolved of doucheness. Fair question. Wrong question, because we are not dominoes nor dollars,and homogenity is not possible except in inanimate objects, but you asked a fair question.