[Article] How To Catch A “Sandbagger”

[Spitfisher]

This may or may not be correct info - as an 18 index , it will be based on the course. Not many play courses with a slope of 113 or less - so that 7 could also be an 8 depending on the course. But those scores over ESC on holes are generally negligible and will rarely affect handicap (for higher handicapped players.) I know with me, it is rare to put up a snowman on anything other than a par 5.  I can see where a single digit would be affected for counting more than double bogey in a round. Back on topic - with what I have seen, sandbaggers are generally guys that cheat in tournaments.  In my experience, they all follow the same mold - super nice guys, always attempt to keep their own score in tourneys. If they cant ride alone, they insist on driving and always drop you off at your ball as they scoot off to theirs in the woods, never a lost ball. Some play multiple rounds a day and only seem to post the 2nd or 3rd round of the day when the score would rise.

yep, totally agree about the sandbagger attempt to hold control over the round and his reporting. Of course there is also Hollywood handicappers, super nice guys that suck, have a single digit handicap and can't break 90 ever. Yeah there is a few out there! Above if he is a18 handicapper is ESC is 7 that's the max he can take. I'm a not familiar with slope influencing this, if its a really tough course the golfer should be playing from the correct tees for his ability, some are mistaken to think it s how far they can drive the ball. That said if he is shooting 100 for a round and he had 2 blow up holes of a 10 and an 9 on two par fours, his recorded score for handicap purpose will be less. Some individuals report the true score In lump sum, which artificially makes the handicap higher than what it should be, was my point.

[meenman]

Above if he is a18 handicapper is ESC is 7 that's the max he can take. I'm a not familiar with slope influencing this, if its a really tough course the golfer should be playing from the correct tees for his ability, some are mistaken to think it s how far they can drive the ball. That said if he is shooting 100 for a round and he had to blow up holes of a 10 and an 9 on two par fours, is recorded score for handicap purpose will be less. Some individuals report the true score In lump sum, which artificially makes the handicap higher than what it should be, was my point.

ESC is based off of course handicap, not index. Back when I was an 18.5, my course handicap was 21.

Slope is used to determine course handicap, based off of your index.

As a low single digit - this is something that you have not experienced.

[Patch]

So once you identify these sandbagging cheats, what do you do with them? What should the tournament officials do with them?

[MS256]

Some play multiple rounds a day and only seem to post the 2nd or 3rd round of the day when the score would rise.

Interesting.

I used to play from daylight to dark on any day that I didn't work and can't remember a time when my play didn't get better with each round and I got used to what I was bringing to the table that day and what I could and couldn't do.

I just figured that would be fairly normal.

Maybe not???

[GolfLug]

Some suggestions:

1) Not sure if this is practical but I think anybody entering a club tournament should be required to play five or more rounds with at least two or three other members and their entered handicap should be verified by these partners, within couple of months leading up to the tourney. We do this for our handicapped buddy trip every year.

2) Put anybody who shots better than -3 differential for two or more consecutive tourney rounds on a watch list. Corollary: Handicap by adjusted by the amount of differential immediately (only if below) for the subsequent round. Keeps it fresh. Even honest handicappers shouldn't mind. -EDIT: If this sounds unfair to honestly good rounds than another way is to adjust handicap by only 50% of total neg. differential.

3) Tournament rounds within a 6 month period (maybe a year?) should always be included in the handicap calc. even if past the 20 rounds stipulation. I think this may already be happening.

[meenman]

So once you identify these sandbagging cheats, what do you do with them? What should the tournament officials do with them?

At my club, the members tend to run these guys out - the offender may try to switch groups - but they generally find themself at another club. The club will never do anything. Once we had to turn in scorecards and the club posted for us - but that solved nothing because guys would not turn in some scores.

Interesting.

I used to play from daylight to dark on any day that I didn't work and can't remember a time when my play didn't get better with each round and I got used to what I was bringing to the table that day and what I could and couldn't do.

I just figured that would be fairly normal.

Maybe not???

I know when I play 2 rounds, my best golf is during the middle 18 holes. Tomorrow I have to play 27 in team match play - with the cart girl killing me by the time I have been through 12, I hope my partner can carry my ass the last 9

In the case of the guys I am talking about - they played for money in the morning and them went out again in the afternoon and evening and those morning scores never seemed to be posted while the non-witnessed scores were.

[Spitfisher]

Some suggestions:

1) Not sure if this is practical but I think anybody entering a club tournament should be required to play five or more rounds with at least two or three other members and their entered handicap should be verified by these partners, within couple of months leading up to the tourney. We do this for our handicapped buddy trip every year.

2) Put anybody who shots better than -3 differential for two or more consecutive tourney rounds on a watch list. Corollary: Handicap by adjusted by the amount of differential immediately (only if below) for the subsequent round. Keeps it fresh. Even honest handicappers shouldn't mind.

3) Tournament rounds within a 6 month period (maybe a year?) should always be included in the handicap calc. even if past the 20 rounds stipulation. I think this may already be happening.

#2 zero tolerance is the only way, what will you do if they do it again? Cheaters lie, liars cheat, they'll just find another way around. Most clubs including members dead against cheating, draw a line in the sand when confronting someone for it. I have been a member of a club where they do not tolerate it at all, ( zero tolerance)  and there are no longer instances or suspicion of cheating

-3  could be used for tourneys that have a 75% handicap. In other words if they are a 20 handicap, the tourney or league is at a 75% handicap that would be a 15, then -3 would be a 12 handicap. So looking back at the chart, shooting 8 strokes below your true handicap it would be likely 1 in 1138 rounds, even if they matched the 75% handicap of 15 it would be 1 in 174 rounds or likely once in 6 years, roughly 30 rounds per year.

[GolfLug]

#2 zero tolerance is the only way, what will you do if they do it again? Cheaters lie, liars cheat, they'll just find another way around. Most clubs including members dead against cheating, draw a line in the sand when confronting someone for it. I have been a member of a club where they do not tolerate it at all, ( zero tolerance)  and there are no longer instances or suspicion of cheating

Clubs trying to retain membership tend to have a higher tolerance, in which case as Lihu suggested, find a more honest setting.

-3  could be used for tourneys that have a 75% handicap. In other words if they are a 20 handicap, the tourney or league is at a 75% handicap that would be a 15, then -3 would be a 12 handicap. So looking back at the chart, shooting 8 strokes below your true handicap it would be likely 1 in 1138 rounds, even if they matched the 75% handicap of 15 it would be 1 in 174 rounds or likely once in 6 years, roughly 30 rounds per year.

Not bad. How often is 75% handicap used?

[Lastpick]

Our course  had a club pro that was formerly on the tour.  He gathered up the score cards and entered them into his data base.  Wasn't any sandbagging from our club while he was here.  He really did a lot for the course, the players and operated events with integrity.  Alas, he was not political with the "big fish" and his contract was not renewed.

[rkim291968]

Back on topic - with what I have seen, sandbaggers are generally guys that cheat in tournaments.

In my experience, they all follow the same mold - super nice guys, always attempt to keep their own score in tourneys. If they cant ride alone, they insist on driving and always drop you off at your ball as they scoot off to theirs in the woods, never a lost ball.

Some play multiple rounds a day and only seem to post the 2nd or 3rd round of the day when the score would rise.

Yeah, I agree that most of them are "super nice guys."  Cheating happens with self reported scores for HI, and in field.

Spitfisher mentioned "Hollywood" golfers, opposite of sandbaggers.  We have those, too.   Their HI is good on record but their play says otherwise.   I checked into one of the cases.   He seemed to record only a few very good scores for HI over the course of years.   These golfer always do very poorly in tournaments.   I guess they cancel out the sandbaggers.

[Lihu]

Spitfisher mentioned "Hollywood" golfers, opposite of sandbaggers.  We have those, too.   Their HI is good on record but their play says otherwise.   I checked into one of the cases.   He seemed to record only a few very good scores for HI over the course of years.   These golfer always do very poorly in tournaments.

You can tell as soon as they make their first swing, I happen to like them more than the other way around. :whistle:

[rb72]

ESC is based off of course handicap, not index. Back when I was an 18.5, my course handicap was 21.

Slope is used to determine course handicap, based off of your index.

As a low single digit - this is something that you have not experienced.

Excuse my ignorance, but how is a course handicap determined as opposed to a HI in general?

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

Spitfisher mentioned "Hollywood" golfers, opposite of sandbaggers.  We have those, too.   Their HI is good on record but their play says otherwise.   I checked into one of the cases.   He seemed to record only a few very good scores for HI over the course of years.   These golfer always do very poorly in tournaments.

You can tell as soon as they make their first swing, I happen to like them more than the other way around.

.... until one of those golfers are paired with you for a two person team event.   You end up carrying the team.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenman

ESC is based off of course handicap, not index. Back when I was an 18.5, my course handicap was 21.

Slope is used to determine course handicap, based off of your index.

As a low single digit - this is something that you have not experienced.

Excuse my ignorance, but how is a course handicap determined as opposed to a HI in general?

Formula:
Handicap Index® multiplied by Slope Rating® of tees played, divided by Standard Slope Rating (113) = Answer (rounded to nearest whole number, .4 rounds down and .5 rounds up)

Example: 10.4 Handicap Index x 125 Slope Rating / 113 Standard Slope Rating = 11.5 = 12 Course Handicap

[Lihu]

.... until one of those golfers are paired with you for a two person team event.   You end up carrying the team.

I'll probably learn all about this this year. :-D

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

.... until one of those golfers are paired with you for a two person team event.   You end up carrying the team.

I'll probably learn all about this this year.

After you win a couple of them, you can say "I am a fast improving player" if anyone suspect you of being a sandbagger.

[Aflighter]

On the am tour I play on we don't have a problem with sandbagging among the members we have competed against for a number of years because we know and see how they play alot.There have been a few times but it was only because the guy was a new member and shot a score that was suspiciously too good for them to be in that flight especially since they are new to tournament play.

[rb72]

Formula:

Handicap Index® multiplied by Slope Rating® of tees played, divided by Standard Slope Rating (113) = Answer (rounded to nearest whole number, .4 rounds down and .5 rounds up)

Example: 10.4 Handicap Index x 125 Slope Rating / 113 Standard Slope Rating = 11.5 = 12 Course Handicap

Thank you.