The tool USGA officials hope will help solve the problem of slow play

[cubdog]

Slow play is a complex problem. There are so many factors involved that any additional information will benefit course owners and managers. I think slow play is a bigger problem in cities and resorts where they need to have shorter intervals between tee times. That might be one of the biggest factors but it's hard to blame the owners. Running a golf course, as we all know, is expensive.

BTW, I typically play 18 holes, with a cart, in under two hours. Of course that's when the course is not very busy. I don't mind playing very early of in crappy weather which also helps and I live in a town of 4,000. I could'nt do that if I lived in Chicago.

cubdog

[No Mulligans]

Slow play is a complex problem. There are so many factors involved that any additional information will benefit course owners and managers. I think slow play is a bigger problem in cities and resorts where they need to have shorter intervals between tee times. That might be one of the biggest factors but it's hard to blame the owners. Running a golf course, as we all know, is expensive.

BTW, I typically play 18 holes, with a cart, in under two hours. Of course that's when the course is not very busy. I don't mind playing very early of in crappy weather which also helps and I live in a town of 4,000. I could'nt do that if I lived in Chicago.

cubdog

As a single?

[cubdog]

As a single?

Yeah but if I could figure out away to speed my friends up I would. I clocked 9 holes in 43 minutes a couple weeks ago and I wasn't even in a hurry. I'm not complaining though, most of my friends, and wife play pretty fast too. It's funny, we do have one friend, among our regular group, who is painfully slow. We let him know it too but it doesn't seem to help. Actually, he isn't that slow buy today's standard but he certainly is methodical.

cubdog

[Downrange45]

I think that applies to me too.

Today as a twosome we played nine holes in 1 hour and 28 minutes at Balboa Park 9 hole course, a par 32.  Caught up with a threesome part way around and waited a few minutes to tee off on every hole thereafter.  A very enjoyable pace which is why I try to play there early in the morning.

Let me start by saying I play quickly even though it takes me 100+ to get through 18. I walk 9 in 1.5.

For me I have been more frustrated by pace of play zealots than slow play. We had a round this summer where a ranger told us to "speed up the pace" 3 times. Even though we waited to tee off on holes 2-18. We had a threesome with 2 carts and we're playing ready golf all the way to the hole. We do not look for lost balls anywhere close to 5 minutes and we don't take mulligans.

After the 3rd time of him yelling at us my buddy said "hey, we are waiting on every hole" the ranger barked back that he could throw anybody off the course so we better not give him lip.

Between that experience and groups behind hitting into (near) us when we are waiting on every hole I would say slow play is not my biggest frustration.

Now we are talking. I wonder how golf courses select personnel for marshal positions. Often, they harass golfers doing all in their power to play quickly, especially when the problem lies with over booking the course and too close tee times. Many must see it as a requirement that they act like a jerk. Other times I have witnessed idiots looking for lost balls for ten minutes or more, hitting multiple balls and exhibiting no knowledge of course manners and no marshal to be found. Personally, I would never complain about another golfer but marshals often use as an excuse that "others are complaining". My wife and I are currently planning a Myrtle Beach golf trip for the spring (an area notorious for obnoxious marshals) and I plan to request courses with reasonable marshals as an objective when I work with our packager. Maybe if enough people express displeasure and make nasty marshals an issue when booking, courses will reign them in a bit.

[Aflighter]

Now we are talking. I wonder how golf courses select personnel for marshal positions. Often, they harass golfers doing all in their power to play quickly, especially when the problem lies with over booking the course and too close tee times. Many must see it as a requirement that they act like a jerk. Other times I have witnessed idiots looking for lost balls for ten minutes or more, hitting multiple balls and exhibiting no knowledge of course manners and no marshal to be found. Personally, I would never complain about another golfer but marshals often use as an excuse that "others are complaining". My wife and I are currently planning a Myrtle Beach golf trip for the spring (an area notorious for obnoxious marshals) and I plan to request courses with reasonable marshals as an objective when I work with our packager. Maybe if enough people express displeasure and make nasty marshals an issue when booking, courses will reign them in a bit.

When your at myrtle beach and a ranger runs his mouth just ignore him and hell go away.They act like that sometimes because they are grumpy think they know it all.Ive seen that same thing happen a few times and you just shake your head and he rides on away to jump on another group.Some of them seem to be clueless and just want to feel like theyre above you.Never seen one get to a point where they would tell you to leave but if it went that far then maybe the group was really slow because that ranger would have some angry golfers waiting for him after he got off work in parking lot.

[Downrange45]

Here is the thing: people are down there on vacation, they plan and save for these trips for months in advance and one would think the red carpet would be out. Actually, I think they should have a hospitality ambassador out there apologizing for the crowded conditions created by their over booking. Instead they send some guy out to ruin the otherwise good time. But people still go in droves and that is why they can get away with it.

[Pretzel]

Now we are talking. I wonder how golf courses select personnel for marshal positions. Often, they harass golfers doing all in their power to play quickly, especially when the problem lies with over booking the course and too close tee times. Many must see it as a requirement that they act like a jerk. Other times I have witnessed idiots looking for lost balls for ten minutes or more, hitting multiple balls and exhibiting no knowledge of course manners and no marshal to be found. Personally, I would never complain about another golfer but marshals often use as an excuse that "others are complaining". My wife and I are currently planning a Myrtle Beach golf trip for the spring (an area notorious for obnoxious marshals) and I plan to request courses with reasonable marshals as an objective when I work with our packager. Maybe if enough people express displeasure and make nasty marshals an issue when booking, courses will reign them in a bit.

The reason marshals "harass" everyone is because they're not allowed to do anything about the real culprit of the slow play, forcing them to try and ask everyone in an effort that others moving faster might move the real slow group. People really do complain to the clubhouse about slow players. That's what tells us where we need to go on the course, but not always the exact group. People like you inadvertently cause slower play by complaining sorry marshals to try and get them "reigned in". When the marshal doesn't have the power to actually speed up the true slow players, because people like you complain about them (likely politely) asking if you could keep pace in order to try and speed up the course in general, then the course will never get faster because even more of the marshal's limited tools (such add actually talking to people about slow play) will be stripped and they'll be reduced to giving out free lunch tickets at the turn to apologize for the slow play that they can't do anything about. Quit complaining about the marshals or ignoring them and stay pointing them to the group who are actually slow! It keeps them off your back (if you really are waiting as you say) and helps out the pace of play.

[18rounds]

Quit complaining about the marshals or ignoring them and stay pointing them to the group who are actually slow! It keeps them off your back (if you really are waiting as you say) and helps out the pace of play.

Why isn't golf growing? Why don't we have more young people in the game?

Where else in society would you tell someone not to complain just let them yell at you for something you have no control over? I have no idea who the actually slow group is. I am not the one driving from hole to hole to see where the problem is. How would I know who is the bottleneck? All I can tell is I am waiting to tee off for 5+ minutes on each hole.

It seems the marshals attitude is that I am guilty by virtue of the fact I paid his employer to allow me on the course.

[Pretzel]

Why isn't golf growing? Why don't we have more young people in the game? Where else in society would you tell someone not to complain just let them yell at you for something you have no control over? I have no idea who the actually slow group is. I am not the one driving from hole to hole to see where the problem is. How would I know who is the bottleneck? All I can tell is I am waiting to tee off for 5+ minutes on each hole. It seems the marshals attitude is that I am guilty by virtue of the fact I paid his employer to allow me on the course.

Then tell the marshal who is slow! They won't keep coming back to you if you can tell then why you are slow and articulate who actually is slow. If they come back and ask you to pick up the pace again, remind them of your earlier conversation. If it happens a third time you can start to get upset. It could be that the course requires them to talk to everyone who is behind pace (some courses make the marshal talk to everyone behind a certain pace even if they can't do anything) and the marshal feels bad about doing it and could be fitted if he doesn't. I just have a hard time believing that you were completely on the right if you told the marshal about you waiting on others and he kept coming back to you. Even if he did keep coming around, I can nearly guarantee he wasn't as pissey as you describe him as being, because people like that get fired quickly. Don't get upset at the marshal for trying to do his job. He is human just like you and we'll occasionally make mistakes.

[18rounds]

Then tell the marshal who is slow! They won't keep coming back to you if you can tell then why you are slow and articulate who actually is slow. If they come back and ask you to pick up the pace again, remind them of your earlier conversation. If it happens a third time you can start to get upset. It could be that the course requires them to talk to everyone who is behind pace (some courses make the marshal talk to everyone behind a certain pace even if they can't do anything) and the marshal feels bad about doing it and could be fitted if he doesn't. I just have a hard time believing that you were completely on the right if you told the marshal about you waiting on others and he kept coming back to you. Even if he did keep coming around, I can nearly guarantee he wasn't as pissey as you describe him as being, because people like that get fired quickly. Don't get upset at the marshal for trying to do his job. He is human just like you and we'll occasionally make mistakes.

Again, how would I know who is being slow? You seem very sure a marshal is not wrong. What training do marshals have that gives you this confidence?

[Lihu]

Again, how would I know who is being slow?

You seem very sure a marshal is not wrong. What training do marshals have that gives you this confidence?

To be honest, I'm not sure how much training you really need to see that a group is holding up the course. Usually, there's a pretty big gap in front of them***.

***Of course, people like me usually take advantage of that situation and jump ahead of them so I can get in a quick round every morning . Thus, I really like slow players because they give me opportunities for super fast rounds.

[Pretzel]

Again, how would I know who is being slow? You seem very sure a marshal is not wrong. What training do marshals have that gives you this confidence?

All I'm saying is that the marshal is probably doing exactly what his boys has told him to do, which is ask everyone to pick up the pace. I know this because when I wad a marshal during tournaments the owner of the course told me to just remind everyone I saw of the pace of play. I felt bad about doing it, but it was either that or the possibility of getting fired.

[Dave2512]

Again, how would I know who is being slow?

You seem very sure a marshal is not wrong. What training do marshals have that gives you this confidence?

Marshals typically have a copy of the tee sheet. They know what time you started and where you should be on the course because they cross reference tee time with the POP. At some of courses I play you are approached by the marshal and he asks what your tee time was. If you are slow he tells you to pick it up if you are ahead he mentions it.

[Pretzel]

Marshals typically have a copy of the tee sheet. They know what time you started and where you should be on the course because they cross reference tee time with the POP. At some of courses I play you are approached by the marshal and he asks what your tee time was. If you are slow he tells you to pick it up if you are ahead he mentions it.

That's how it worked at my course, where we had a copy of the tee sheet (along with cart numbers for the members of that group) and a chart that maps out what time you should finish each hole.

[davedove]

I played one course where they had placed some clocks at different tees, each adjusted by the expected play time to get to that tee.  If the clock showed later than your start time, you were going too slow.

[william1943]

It is the golf course that causes slow play:  Blind shots, 8 inch rough causing long ball searches. Sand traps. Sloped fairways that

effectively narrow the width of the fairway to 15 yards. Overgrown  trees that do the same.  Greens with slopes so severe that a ball hit past the hole rolls 45 feet into a lake. Fix the course.

[saevel25]

It is the golf course that causes slow play:  Blind shots, 8 inch rough causing long ball searches. Sand traps. Sloped fairways that

effectively narrow the width of the fairway to 15 yards. Overgrown  trees that do the same.  Greens with slopes so severe that a ball hit past the hole rolls 45 feet into a lake. Fix the course.

Not really. Here is a description of the course I play,

-No Blind shots

-2 inch rough at most, if it is a dry summer then hardly no rough because it is burnt out

-Sandtraps, usually 2 per hole near the green, not too deep that players would have a hard time to get out of

-Flat fairways

-Not many trees inside the course, tree line on the outside where their is OB, but only on maybe 4 holes on the whole course

-A good amount of tiered greens, but most of the greens have 2-3% slope max, nothing too severe. They don't run overly fast

Guess how long my rounds of golf take on a busy day, over 4 hours. They have had 2.5 hour 9 hole rounds for league nights a few times.

It is the golfer, not the course.

[Morocco Mako]

Better metrics would help courses determine what is causing slow play, but I'm not sure this pole is the answer.

The numbers won't be tied to any particular group (unless they prohibit allowing a group to play through or skipping holes).

I suggest they use the same system used in marathon races. Shoe tags that register on a sensor each time they pass a point. The tags are not only specific to groups, bit to individual golfers. They can build data not only on when they reach the green, but even when and which tee box they use.