5 wood over driver?

[MrFlipper]

It could be you are delofting the club like crazy, in essence turning your 5 wood into driver type loft.

Do you also hit your short irons a really long way? Long irons hard to hit, maybe low smothering hooks?  Saying you hook the ball real low to the ground when you mishit would tend to be another symptom of delofting, is that just with your 5 wood or with everything from say a 5 iron out?

If so you could be delofting everything, which is okay, just keep doing what you are doing, hitting a 5 wood off the tee, etc. If you are delofting you would be turning your driver into 4 degree loft or something, no point in trying to hit it, too difficult.

But with a higher swing speed, which it sounds like you have, you can get away with it doing what you are doing.

Unless you want to change your swing  a lot, go with what you got!

Or I could be completely off base

[Lihu]

  MrFlipper said:

Do you also hit your short irons a really long way? Long irons hard to hit, maybe low smothering hooks?  Saying you hook the ball real low to the ground when you mishit would tend to be another symptom of delofting, is that just with your 5 wood or with everything from say a 5 iron out?

Or I could be completely off base

So, what's the solution? To "flip" a bit more?

[saevel25]

  DrvFrShow said:

Well, that 2" of shaft length can throw off tempo, and he's coming through at 110 mph I'm guessing that's not much time to get his clubhead to come back square. This is where I have trouble. When I try to hit the ball hardest is when I hit the biggest slices. When I'm hitting about 90% I have "power fade,"  but it's a bit more controlled. At 80% it's fairly straight even with a draw. But I'm not hitting it any further than my 5 wood @ 80%. But I guess slow to go fast.

With a higher lofted driver, I have more backspin on the ball to overcome the sidespin. Perhaps practicing with it at about 80% and getting the thing working well there, then gradually increasing downswing speed would be the way to go.

Not really. Every golf plays golf with different length clubs. The tempo for each club is basically the same.

Please note that there is no sidespin on the ball. The ball has one spin axis, and one spin rate. Backspin doesn't overcome sidespin. The reason a higher lofted club doesn't curve as much is because it is harder to evoke that spin axis tilt.

[MrFlipper]

  Lihu said:

So, what's the solution? To "flip" a bit more?

I'm not even sure I guessed right about what's going on, it was just a wild guess, and I'm sure not a pro, lowest I ever got was a 3. So I really have no idea, but here goes---

Not sure what flipping is, but I think people have a more or less natural swing that is uniquely theirs, sometimes its good enough over time to break 80 with, sometimes its not. So you can either rebuild your swing, which is a lot of time and trouble but you will be much better in the long run, or you go with your natural swing more or less and do the best you can with it and be happy with that, wherever you top out.

If the OP keeps playing this way, 5 wood off the tee, etc, he is already a 10 handicap, so he's pretty good naturally and prob he can keep improving some more with just grooving his swing. So he doesn't really have to do anything else rash if he is happy with the way he is playing now, even if he has to use different clubs than other people for certain shots. Sounds like he is happy with where he is scoring, more or less.

So one solution is: don't change anything and just accept it for what it is. I sure don't hit my driver 270 all the time so he would sure be blowing it past me (not that that is any big deal), even with a 5 wood!

Again, I could be all wet here too

And a shameless plug for LSW here, too (speaking of doing better with what you have already got). Got my copy a week ago, there's loads of good stuff in it, not just swing stuff. I see you have a copy, but the OP oughta get one too!

[DrvFrShow]

  saevel25 said:

Not really. Every golf plays golf with different length clubs. The tempo for each club is basically the same.

Please note that there is no sidespin on the ball. The ball has one spin axis, and one spin rate. Backspin doesn't overcome sidespin. The reason a higher lofted club doesn't curve as much is because it is harder to evoke that spin axis tilt.

I knew that. But I'm not getting technical.

[Matt66]

  Tat14 said:

Six cents 3) Are there significant shaft spec differences between your driver and 5W?

I hope LoyalP4wn doesn't mind me stealing some thunder, but we occur to be singing off the same hymn sheet. It's funny that Tat14 mentions specs I actually ran a check of my 3 woods (driver,3,5) on taylormade website earlier, it surprised me that the shaft length between 5&3 was exactly the same 43'' (when the 3 definitely felt longer) and driver then went up to 46''. Stiffness is regular TM, the difference was in weight again though driver & 5 wood shaft weight was near enough the same only my 3 wood was heavier (a possible reason why I'm struggling with it, but that's a story for another day...) I guess what I'm alluding to was that espscially between 5 and driver there wasn't much difference in spec, other then length. Could it really be that the fix for people like myself & loyal Could be as simple as a look at shaft length and grip positioning.

[DrvFrShow]

I recently played around with counterweighting my Razr Fit. It originally was a D6. We got it down to a D4 with a lot of lead tape in the grip. But it feels better now. I can turn over the club head more easily during my downswing so that I'm not slicing it as often or as badly. I wanted to get it to a D2.

Now here's an odd thing. A G25 that's a D3 feels a lot lighter. A stock G25 shouldn't feel that much lighter. But it might be the difference between the R shaft in the G25 and the Aldila R (which is more like a S) in the Razr Fit.

[Loyalp4wn]

Hey guys, just got back from the course. Today I shot a solid 80 sticking with the 5 wood off the tee. I took the driver to the range beforehand in an attempt to incorporate it into the round, however my old habits came back, bad duck hooks especially.. So in an attempt to stick to consistency I stuck with the 5 wood. I would like to address a lot of the comments here, as you all have been VERY informative with your replys, (thanks for that). Regarding mrflipper, yes I do hit my short irons anl considerable distance, when im 150 out im always reaching for my pitching wedge, however depending on wind I could fluctuate between the wedge and playing a 9 iron off my front foot. The steepest long iron that I hit is a 6 iron, and thats very occasional. Anything 210 plus I use my 4 hybrid, which is a club I am in love with for accuracy. Anything from 110-100 i use a sand wedge for, if its 5 yds more i take the same club and add more speed in my swing to reach. Drvfrshow, I really like your advice of taping the club, I really think that shorting the shaft could help me, because when I do hit my driver right, it mimicks the same draw that I have with my 5 wood. And yes, you would be correct in saying that I miss more draws than I would like to. Its almost like when bubba misses that big fade and the ball ends up going straight to the right. However, my misses are not really errant at alland I can always recover from those misses. Basically my most missed shot with the 5 wood is me not turning my hands over at the right time and having the ball go straight right. Now if I were to do the same shot with the driver, (which is what I do), my miss would be a large duck hook, and what that feels like in my mind when its happening, is feeling the clubface square off too early coming down, and just holding that over through the ball. Its a very bad feeling, and I rarely do that with my 5 wood. So in the midst of things, I do like the idea of staying within my 5wood play, however I will try the tape idea, and gradually attempt to hit the driver with more accuracy.

[Lihu]

  Loyalp4wn said:

I would like to address a lot of the comments here, as you all have been VERY informative with your replys, (thanks for that). Regarding mrflipper, yes I do hit my short irons anl considerable distance, when im 150 out im always reaching for my pitching wedge, however depending on wind I could fluctuate between the wedge and playing a 9 iron off my front foot. The steepest long iron that I hit is a 6 iron, and thats very occasional. Anything 210 plus I use my 4 hybrid, which is a club I am in love with for accuracy. Anything from 110-100 i use a sand wedge for, if its 5 yds more i take the same club and add more speed in my swing to reach.

Are you sure about your distances?

I only drive (total distance) about as far as you stated you hit your 5W, and yet I would be reaching for a 56 or 58 for 100 to 110 yards. My 60 degree goes 95 yards with a full swing setup back in my stance. My 9i which is 46 degrees and a blade is also my 140 to 150 club and my 6i is nowhere near 200 yards? Your short iron distances are consistent with my distances, but your long irons and woods/hybrids are much longer.

  Loyalp4wn said:

Drvfrshow, I really like your advice of taping the club, I really think that shorting the shaft could help me, because when I do hit my driver right, it mimicks the same draw that I have with my 5 wood. And yes, you would be correct in saying that I miss more draws than I would like to. Its almost like when bubba misses that big fade and the ball ends up going straight to the right. However, my misses are not really errant at alland I can always recover from those misses. Basically my most missed shot with the 5 wood is me not turning my hands over at the right time and having the ball go straight right.

I don't think you should be actively "turning your hands over" at all?

[Loyalp4wn]

I might not be explaining that right, I think what I meant was my arms squaring the club face upon impact. What happens is that I feel like im squaring up to early causing the big hook. As far as irons, im not sure what degree the sand wedge is, its not labeled, but compared to other sand wedges ive had, it feels like its a 56 degree. I think I tend to speed up my swing on longer irons, for example there sometimes where I will pull a 7 iron out of the bag for a 185 yd. However yes, my 6 iron tends to be a consistent 195-200 yds depending on the type of impact I put on it. My hybrid is really just a big gap club for me, I mostly use it for my 2nd shots on par 5s an occasionally to tee off on short par 4s because I have so much control with that club. (Almost more than my 5wood). I fear errancy with anything more than a 6 iron, and actually rarely use it. In fact today I only used it once at 195 out on a par 4 and safely got on in regulation. Every other iron shot was below a 6 iron, and I even contemplated using a 7 iron for that shot.

[Lihu]

  Loyalp4wn said:

I might not be explaining that right, I think what I meant was my arms squaring the club face upon impact. What happens is that I feel like im squaring up to early causing the big hook.

As far as irons, im not sure what degree the sand wedge is, its not labeled, but compared to other sand wedges ive had, it feels like its a 56 degree.

I think I tend to speed up my swing on longer irons, for example there sometimes where I will pull a 7 iron out of the bag for a 185 yd.

However yes, my 6 iron tends to be a consistent 195-200 yds depending on the type of impact I put on it. My hybrid is really just a big gap club for me, I mostly use it for my 2nd shots on par 5s an occasionally to tee off on short par 4s because I have so much control with that club. (Almost more than my 5wood).

I fear errancy with anything more than a 6 iron, and actually rarely use it. In fact today I only used it once at 195 out on a par 4 and safely got on in regulation. Every other iron shot was below a 6 iron, and I even contemplated using a 7 iron for that shot.

SW is usually a 54.

So, what are your distances? Guessing PW-150, 9i-160, 8i-170, 7i-180 to 185 and 6i 197?

[Loyalp4wn]

Yes, those would be very accurate numbers to my distances. I also tend to play most of my shots off my front foot because I know that I could potentially over hit those shots very easily. I also place the ball at my front foot for my 5 wood tee shots.

[rdsandy]

  saevel25 said:

Quote:  ... Please note that there is no sidespin on the ball. The ball has one spin axis, and one spin rate. Backspin doesn't overcome sidespin. The reason a higher lofted club doesn't curve as much is because it is harder to evoke that spin axis tilt.

It is more convenient and easier to visualize the "one spin axis" as a resolution of that axis into two orthogonal components, a side spin and a back spin. Most of the launch monitors use these orthogonal components so it makes perfect sense to describe the spin axis of the ball in the same way. (IMO)

[saevel25]

  rdsandy said:

It is more convenient and easier to visualize the "one spin axis" as a resolution of that axis into two orthogonal components, a side spin and a back spin. Most of the launch monitors use these orthogonal components so it makes perfect sense to describe the spin axis of the ball in the same way. (IMO)

Nope, it makes more sense to actually see things how they are. To break it up into two components is to bring on the thinking the ball actually spins in bother directions which it doesn't. It isn't hard to visualize the axis tilt to the side.

I know launch monitors are breaking the spin into components, but that is primarily for fitting clubs. The comment made above about putting more spin on the ball so it can overtake the side spine is just incorrect. If you spin the ball more, you will increase the spin on that axis. In that regard both components would increase as well.

[Lihu]

  Loyalp4wn said:

Yes, those would be very accurate numbers to my distances. I also tend to play most of my shots off my front foot because I know that I could potentially over hit those shots very easily. I also place the ball at my front foot for my 5 wood tee shots.

Wow, that's a tough one. You might need those new Hogan irons with lots of loft choices. Good thing you're right handed.

Try out the mini-driver. I bet you'll like it.

Here's a review:

[iacas]

  rdsandy said:

It is more convenient and easier to visualize the "one spin axis" as a resolution of that axis into two orthogonal components, a side spin and a back spin. Most of the launch monitors use these orthogonal components so it makes perfect sense to describe the spin axis of the ball in the same way. (IMO)

I agree that it "can" be easier, but more often, I think BOTH are equally as easy, and people are simply more comfortable thinking of it as "sidespin."

Most launch monitors show the spin axis: FlightScope, Trackman, and others. After all, that's how the ball actually spins, so… they show that.

[rdsandy]

  saevel25 said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

It is more convenient and easier to visualize the "one spin axis" as a resolution of that axis into two orthogonal components, a side spin and a back spin. Most of the launch monitors use these orthogonal components so it makes perfect sense to describe the spin axis of the ball in the same way. (IMO)

Nope, it makes more sense to actually see things how they are. To break it up into two components is to bring on the thinking the ball actually spins in bother directions which it doesn't. It isn't hard to visualize the axis tilt to the side.

I know launch monitors are breaking the spin into components, but that is primarily for fitting clubs. The comment made above about putting more spin on the ball so it can overtake the side spine is just incorrect. If you spin the ball more, you will increase the spin on that axis. In that regard both components would increase as well.

Physicists, mathematicians, engineers and scientists in general have been resolving vectors into orthogonal components for centuries. Not sure why they would do that if it wasn't more intuitive, or conducive to ease of calculation. Again, just my opinion.

[vangator]

Not that I'm doubting the distances, but if so you must be swinging differently. I can hit my driver 280-300 or even more on occasion, but not in my wildest dreams could I ever hit a 5 wood 270 unless it hit a cart path or sprinkler head. :-) My 5W would get me 230 off the tee at best. I had to play around with only my 3W a few months back and I was surprised my typical distance off the tee was only 235 with the 3W. If I really tagged it I could get it to 250. But I was in the fairway consistently. Most of the guys I play with think the ball actually goes farther than it does. I use my GPS to check my distances (and sometimes theirs) and am surprised sometimes at the distance. I think I hammered it 300 and the GPS says 260 or something.