Pete's Programme (Single Digit to Tour Player)

[Phil McGleno]

Good post. I do not really like using the word square to mean all that you mean. Obviously for a fade the clubface points left a bit and for your normal draw to the right a bit. No tour player is square at impact regularly as they all play a small curve. For putting you can do other things and still miss - bad read or bad distance control. So being square is important there but it is just a piece of the puzzle.

[MacDutch]

Thanks for your postings Peter. They remind me of the @tourspoon blog, which I followed with great interest.

[Nosevi]

Good post.

I do not really like using the word square to mean all that you mean. Obviously for a fade the clubface points left a bit and for your normal draw to the right a bit. No tour player is square at impact regularly as they all play a small curve.

For putting you can do other things and still miss - bad read or bad distance control. So being square is important there but it is just a piece of the puzzle.

Absolutely agree with the last bit, was really saying if your putting face isn't square to where you want it you'll miss and miss every time.

Regarding the first bit, I guess I'm using the word "square" in a slightly different way to you - I mean square to my intended intial ball flight (or very close to it) not square to where the pin is. If you look at my sets posted earlier all of the sets land left of the centreline - that's just a function of how the kit works, they're actually all on the pin or there abouts, will see if I can explain.

When I hit the shots I'm on the simulator but I'm recording the ball flight on an ipad. On the screen I move my point of aim to be 4 or 5 yards right of the pin but the ipad doesn't know this. I actually move the picture and set up square to the new aiming point (a tree behind the green in this case). You could say my stance is closed a fraction to a target line to the pin or square to my new aiming point, hope that makes sense? Now, what I'm trying to do is fire the ball at the new aiming point with a little in to out swing path. I draw it off my initial aiming point onto the pin or close to it. Now the ipad doesn't know I've moved the aiming point in the PC software up on the screen so it records a shot that draws off my aiming point to the left by 4 or 5 yards.

So when I say I'm trying to get the club face square, I'm talking square to where I'm trying to start the ball flight, my 'aiming point' maybe 4 yards left of the pin. You correctly say the club face is 'open' to where I want the ball to end up, ie on the pin to the left of that with my swing path slight right of the club face.

I think of it like this simply because that's how my mind works - like I said earlier I tend to point the club face where I want the ball to go so I pick an aiming point and that's what I fire at. If I 'fire at the pin' with a draw my hands naturally try to point the club face right at it and I miss left as the ball starts at the pin and moves off it with the draw spin. It's probably a function of being a bit of a handsey player and having months with a torn achilles doing some putting and drills to 'square up' the club face at impact. Didn't want to chip and pitch as it was my left achilles, I'm a righty, and my technique would suffer as the one thing I didn't want to do was put weight onto my left side so I spent the time learnig to get the club face point where I wanted it.

Thanks for your postings Peter. They remind me of the @tourspoon blog, which I followed with great interest.

No problem. Like I said, one thing I'm not trying to do it teach anyone how to play golf. I'm not an instructor (you guys have people like Erik and others on here for that) and am new to the game compared to many or even most on here. Part of the reason why I have very good instructors of my own and am not trying to do this all myself is that I understand just how little I know about the golf. I can only say what seems to work for me but that won't be what works for everyone, we're all different and our minds process information in slightly different ways. Part of the 'trick' is working out how you process information so you can use that to get the results you want.

The last post was really in answer to Randy's question regarding deliberate practice. The Dan Plan was based around deliberate practice but if I asked someone if he was proving or disproving whether it works they couldn't tell me. Is he engaging in deliberate practice? No idea. At the end of his plan if he succeeds was it because of deliberate practice or if he fails is it because he didn't engage in deliberate practice? Again, no idea. I do loads of drills in order to achieve a desired result and the club face control drill is one of them which has had good results for me. I'm not saying it'll work for everyone just that it worked for me

[alleztom]

Thank you for the thread. I admire the dedication and set up you have. Having committed such attention to learning, science and the time to honing your game, I was wondering how you feel about gear, what type of head/shaft/ball you use and whether this developed or changed as you improved and particularly the thinking behind these decisions. Best of luck with progress.

[Nosevi]

Thank you for the thread. I admire the dedication and set up you have. Having committed such attention to learning, science and the time to honing your game, I was wondering how you feel about gear, what type of head/shaft/ball you use and whether this developed or changed as you improved and particularly the thinking behind these decisions. Best of luck with progress.

Thanks.

As far as the ball goes I use a ProV1 now which is a change from at the start. This is partly because I tend to finish the round with the ball I started it with now which I didn't before, but also because a lot of the benefit of a ball like a ProV1 comes with the amount of spin you can get around the greens but this is only the case with a good contact which I didn't get at first. Essentially a premium ball was a bit wasted on me at first but now I can get the benefit from one. I actually did a test of a few balls not so long ago - the cheaper ones spun about the same as the ProV1 on longer shots but when you got down to 20 yards and under it wasn't close and the ProV1 had far more spin.

Clubs wise I have Ping G30 9 degree driver dialled down to 8 degrees. I tend to launch the ball pretty high and dialling the loft down minimises the backspin for me. I spent a couple of days on my launch monitor testing it at different loft settings and 8 degree just gives me the best combo of launch (I launch it at about 13 degrees on that setting), carry, spin and so overall distance. The shaft is a Project X PXV Tour 52 6.5 flex, the same shaft is in my 3 and 5 woods which are also G30. Irons are Ping i25s (4-PW), Wedges (52,56,60) are Ping Tour Gorge all with Project X 6.5 shafts.

I actually trialled a selection of clubs and shafts on my own kit over a period of a few days, it's great for club fitting and it was nice not to be rushed but just take my time until I was happy I had exactly what I wanted.

[garybbq]

Just wondering how much time do you spend with your swing coach? In the beginning did you have to "rebuild" your swing at all or was it mostly just making small changes at a time?

Thanks,

[Nosevi]

Just wondering how much time do you spend with your swing coach? In the beginning did you have to "rebuild" your swing at all or was it mostly just making small changes at a time?

Thanks,

Hi. There was a lot of work at the beginning but now we tend to have shorter sessions where we tweak it a bit in one or two areas. I see him every other week and at the end he does a voice over on a video of my swing during the lesson taken on the high speed cameras at the academy going over what we covered, he emails it to me and it's invariably waiting for me by the time I get home. In the weeks in between the lessons I send him a video (face on, down the line or both depending on what we're working on) so he can check I'm progressing. It's a system that works well as he's basically looking at my swing on a weekly basis. I also have a short game lesson every other week with my other coach but he's the pro at my club so I often see him in between for some pointers along the way. With either of them, if I'm struggling between the lessons I'll go see them.

The one thing I'd say about my swing is it's functional rather than 'pretty'. I'm a chubby (but getting less so - lost 24 pounds so far) not very flexibly chap and my swing is built around my limitations, it's far from textbook. That's one thing I like about my coach - he works with what you've got rather than try to fit you into a percieved 'ideal' swing. But the end result is the ball goes where I want it to go and I get enough distance to be ok at the level I'm currently at. That said it's 8.20 in the evening here and I've just crawled out of the shower having been in the gym doing core and conditioning work before dinner - you can never have too much distance!

Anyway, at the fear of eliciting loads of swing advice and even more diet advice this is a vid I took earlier. I had a long 'video conference' call with @ RandallT earlier (seriously nice bloke) and we were talking about 'deliberate practice' and what it meant to me. After the call I shot a quick vid to show the sort of thing I get up to. Wasn't intended for 'publishing' so excuse the quality (note to self - only the camera on the back of my Iphone is HD!!) but it may be of interest.

[garybbq]

Hi. There was a lot of work at the beginning but now we tend to have shorter sessions where we tweak it a bit in one or two areas. I see him every other week and at the end he does a voice over on a video of my swing during the lesson taken on the high speed cameras at the academy going over what we covered, he emails it to me and it's invariably waiting for me by the time I get home. In the weeks in between the lessons I send him a video (face on, down the line or both depending on what we're working on) so he can check I'm progressing. It's a system that works well as he's basically looking at my swing on a weekly basis. I also have a short game lesson every other week with my other coach but he's the pro at my club so I often see him in between for some pointers along the way. With either of them, if I'm struggling between the lessons I'll go see them.

The one thing I'd say about my swing is it's functional rather than 'pretty'. I'm a chubby (but getting less so - lost 24 pounds so far) not very flexibly chap and my swing is built around my limitations, it's far from textbook. That's one thing I like about my coach - he works with what you've got rather than try to fit you into a percieved 'ideal' swing. But the end result is the ball goes where I want it to go and I get enough distance to be ok at the level I'm currently at. That said it's 8.20 in the evening here and I've just crawled out of the shower having been in the gym doing core and conditioning work before dinner - you can never have too much distance!

Anyway, at the fear of eliciting loads of swing advice and even more diet advice this is a vid I took earlier. I had a long 'video conference' call with @RandallT earlier (seriously nice bloke) and we were talking about 'deliberate practice' and what it meant to me. After the call I shot a quick vid to show the sort of thing I get up to. Wasn't intended for 'publishing' so excuse the quality (note to self - only the camera on the back of my Iphone is HD!!) but it may be of interest.

Thanks Pete, I find this very interesting.

Good luck.

[Nosevi]

Thanks Pete, I find this very interesting.

Good luck.

Thanks. I wouldn't normally post drills or exercises I do as for one thing most are pretty specific to what my coach and I are working on at the time but also, as I said before, I'm not about to try to teach anyone how to play golf. That exercise - fade one, draw one, fade one, draw one - has helped me get control of the golf ball. The ability to move the ball how I want to depending on the wind, hole layout, where the trouble is etc, has made a vast difference to my game. It can be time consuming to learn but it's well worth doing IMO.

[Nosevi]

Just quickly, someone who saw the vid commented that they couldn't really see the ball flight. Ok, didn't really shoot it to publish, if I had it would have been HD with the ball flight in a colour that would stand out (which you can do on the sim) etc. Was more to show the sort of exercises I do and give an idea of the sort of things I get up to using the sim. Just to keep them happy though I've screen captured the shots so they can hopefully make out the ball flight :

First shot was a fade:

Then a draw:

Then back to a fade:

Then I went for the final draw a tad more aggressively which normally means I start it further right but put more draw spin on it:

Like I say, intention wasn't really to demo 'how to hit a fade or a draw', I'm not trying to teach anyone anything. It was more just to show how I while away the hours practicing the skills I need on the course.

[Nosevi]

I said I'd report after my first match so guess I'd better. Short version is we lost 2 &1. It was four ball (ie two teams of two, you each play your own ball and the best score out of your pair is your team's score. It's then matchplay against the other team's score) and in truth neither myself or my partner really played to the best of our ability. One interesting coincidence was that myself and both the members of the opposing team are coached by my coach - the head pro of our national academy. Guess they're going to have bragging rights when I see them down at the academy from now on but I should get the chance to play them both twice more this season so hopefully I'll get them back.

One thing I can say is that I loved it, really enjoyed the experience. Could really get used to this competition lark.

I was playing with our current club champion and our captain had us lead the team off. What that basically meant was that both teams were gathered around the 1st tee to see us off. Shouldn't have added pressure, pressure is self imposed after all, but it felt like it did. Luckily all 4 of us played the first to pretty boring regulation pars from the fairway and in truth I was happy to be off onto the course and away from a gaggle of team mates. For the rest of the match the difference was quite literally in one area - we all hit a fair number of fairways (generally I was either longest or second longest off the tee and hit the short grass more often than not) and we all hit most greens. We all scrambled quite well when we missed the greens but at the end of the day they sunk a couple more putts.

Putting - it seems so simple doesn't it but it's bloody hard to score birdies if the putts don't drop. It'd be tough to say who scored the worst out of the four of us but the guy who scored the best was the bloke who putted the best and sadly he was on the other team. I knew my putting was lagging behind the rest of my play but this was a bit of a wake up call and getting my putting up to a better level will be a focus for the next few weeks at least and probably longer.

One thing that was a bonus out of the day is that all 4 of us really got on and in fact the other 3 will be coming over to mine to use the swing studio and launch monitor over the spring and summer and have all said we'll be in touch for some informal matches between our official league matches this year. Not sure if that's really entering into the spirit of just how serious our league really is (it may be to some but not to us) and letting the 'opposition' use my Gucci kit may give them an advantage, but frankly I couldn't care - Gucci kit or not, we'll have them next time round.

At the end of the day my team lost today, want to turn that around, but I really, really enjoyed playing golf where wining or losing meant more than who was going to buy the drinks afterwards. Already looking forward to our next match.

[iacas]

Thanks for the tip on the putting, really need to put in some effort here. A guy  over in the States who looks after my stats is putting together some ways of analysing them and putting is a big part of that moving forward into the spring. Scoring wise I rarely 3 putt....... the snag is I very rarely hole birdie putts and that's hurting my scores.

Looking over your stats isn't necessarily the way to fix that problem. Perhaps the problem has more to do with one of three things:

• Your stroke is off.
• Your read is off.
• Your mindset is incorrect.

It's unlikely to be your distance control or speed control on the 5-20 footers you expect to make occasionally for birdie given your lack of three-putts.

And it's actually somewhat unlikely to be your mindset, because the loss aversion (i.e. pros are more likely to make the same putt for par than for birdie) has been shown to only be about a 1-3% difference in performance, not the 10%+ it was originally believed to mean.

So, more than likely, I imagine your stroke or green reading could be improved. Read, Bead, and Speed…

---

That's not super on topic, but it stood out and I wanted to mention it here. On second thought, I'll move it to your thread.

[Nosevi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Thanks for the tip on the putting, really need to put in some effort here. A guy  over in the States who looks after my stats is putting together some ways of analysing them and putting is a big part of that moving forward into the spring. Scoring wise I rarely 3 putt....... the snag is I very rarely hole birdie putts and that's hurting my scores.

Looking over your stats isn't necessarily the way to fix that problem. Perhaps the problem has more to do with one of three things:

Your stroke is off.

Your read is off.

Your mindset is incorrect.

It's unlikely to be your distance control or speed control on the 5-20 footers you expect to make occasionally for birdie given your lack of three-putts.

And it's actually somewhat unlikely to be your mindset, because the loss aversion (i.e. pros are more likely to make the same putt for par than for birdie) has been shown to only be about a 1-3% difference in performance, not the 10%+ it was originally believed to mean.

So, more than likely, I imagine your stroke or green reading could be improved. Read, Bead, and Speed…

That's not super on topic, but it stood out and I wanted to mention it here. On second thought, I'll move it to your thread.

Thanks Erik, appreciate it and thanks for posting it here.

I think there definitely seems to be a snag I have somewhere in the read or setup when I'm on a green rather than my stroke. I 'groove' my putting stroke on a mat, I also practice on a green but spend a bit of time putting on a completely flat mat inside. The mat is only 9 feet long but I rarely miss now - a couple of hours ago I sunk 22 in a row from 8.5 feet. Now, the mat is only a little over a foot wide so I have a channel to putt down and given that channel I'll roll the ball down the middle of it pretty much every time. On the green, even the practice putting green which I know well and even with a putt with no break, I'm not close to as good at that sort of range. If both are putts with zero break I should be about as good on the green as I am on the mat but to be honest it's not even in the same ball park, was out earlier and from 8 feet I got the odd one compared with regularly getting 10 or more in a row on the mat. Thinking of going out on the green tomorrow and setting up a channel to putt down with alignment rods and slowly widen the channel. Any other ideas?

This is a drill I do regularly from 8.5 feet on my mat although now I do it with a single ball so I have to set up again each time. I've also worked on keeping my lower body more stable since this was taken, you can see I used to straighten my left knee and 'follow' the ball with my body after the putt. Could also be up for the most dull video on Youtube award (I'm also a bit thinner now, honest). My point is I can do this on the mat, and as I said sunk 22 in a row from this range earlier, but on the green I'm missing everything from this sort of range. Kind of got me scratching my head if I'm honest so any suggestions would be welcome

[iacas]

I think there definitely seems to be a snag I have somewhere in the read or setup when I'm on a green rather than my stroke. I 'groove' my putting stroke on a mat, I also practice on a green but spend a bit of time putting on a completely flat mat inside. The mat is only 9 feet long but I rarely miss now - a couple of hours ago I sunk 22 in a row from 8.5 feet.

The sides of the mat help you line up. For that matter, so does the back of the mat. Plus, for all we know, it may have a slight groove to it. I watched the video and saw a few putts that had variance, yet fell in the cup easily. For example:

Two consecutive putts, left and right, with a 50% overlay in the middle. The balls are off by about 1.5" halfway to the hole, and that's before an upslope that should push them even farther apart than just flat ground would… yet both went in the hole barely more than one inch apart.

On the green, even the practice putting green which I know well and even with a putt with no break, I'm not close to as good at that sort of range. If both are putts with zero break I should be about as good on the green as I am on the mat but to be honest it's not even in the same ball park, was out earlier and from 8 feet I got the odd one compared with regularly getting 10 or more in a row on the mat. Thinking of going out on the green tomorrow and setting up a channel to putt down with alignment rods and slowly widen the channel. Any other ideas?

Real greens aren't perfect like synthetic. That's one of the many reasons - along with the mat helping you a little perhaps - that PGA Tour pros only average 50% from eight feet.

You can only control your start line.

If you're missing birdie putts from 5-20 feet, I'd look at your start lines or your reads. Or both.

This is a drill I do regularly from 8.5 feet on my mat although now I do it with a single ball so I have to set up again each time. I've also worked on keeping my lower body more stable since this was taken, you can see I used to straighten my left knee and 'follow' the ball with my body after the putt. Could also be up for the most dull video on Youtube award (I'm also a bit thinner now, honest). My point is I can do this on the mat, and as I said sunk 22 in a row from this range earlier, but on the green I'm missing everything from this sort of range. Kind of got me scratching my head if I'm honest so any suggestions would be welcome

The video isn't the best to look at putting mechanics, so I won't really comment on those.

[Shorty]

My point is I can do this on the mat, and as I said sunk 22 in a row from this range earlier, but on the green I'm missing everything from this sort of range. Kind of got me scratching my head if I'm honest so any suggestions would be welcome

I wouldn't even waste my time for one minute on a putting mat like that. You aren't reading the putt and you are hitting every on at the same speed and weight. Which makes you good at putting on that particular mat.  10 minutes practicing 6 footers from different spots on a real green would be better than a year on that thing for your stroke.

[iacas]

BTW, I meant to add:

• Get on a SAM PuttLab
• Get with an AimPoint instructor

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

My point is I can do this on the mat, and as I said sunk 22 in a row from this range earlier, but on the green I'm missing everything from this sort of range. Kind of got me scratching my head if I'm honest so any suggestions would be welcome

I wouldn't even waste my time for one minute on a putting mat like that. You aren't reading the putt and you are hitting every on at the same speed and weight. Which makes you good at putting on that particular mat.  10 minutes practicing 6 footers from different spots on a real green would be better than a year on that thing for your stroke.

This is the only way I can practice putting, since I am on the course waiting for other people anyway. Even so, I suck at putting. . .

[Nosevi]

Originally Posted by iacas

The sides of the mat help you line up. For that matter, so does the back of the mat. Plus, for all we know, it may have a slight groove to it. I watched the video and saw a few putts that had variance, yet fell in the cup easily. For example:

Two consecutive putts, left and right, with a 50% overlay in the middle. The balls are off by about 1.5" halfway to the hole, and that's before an upslope that should push them even farther apart than just flat ground would… yet both went in the hole barely more than one inch apart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Yep, know the ones you mean. It's not due to a groove, just that on that particular day the right hand side of the mat had a very slight break to the left, you can see I'm playing for it on most putts. On the one that was to the left it actually goes straight and catches the left edge of the hole, almost lips out but not quite, the next one is the mini break I'm playing for throughout. I guess on that day, with the mat exactly there the 'topography' gave me a slight advantage (left goes straight, right goes left an inch or so...). Today I was set up where those 2 balls are that I've not hit and it had a slightly different roll. The point is not that I'm 100% for 8.5 feet out but on the green I'm not close to this - I'm not just shaving the hole, I'm out and out missing.

Real greens aren't perfect like synthetic. That's one of the many reasons - along with the mat helping you a little perhaps - that PGA Tour pros only average 50% from eight feet.

You can only control your start line.

If you're missing birdie putts from 5-20 feet, I'd look at your start lines or your reads. Or both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

This is a drill I do regularly from 8.5 feet on my mat although now I do it with a single ball so I have to set up again each time. I've also worked on keeping my lower body more stable since this was taken, you can see I used to straighten my left knee and 'follow' the ball with my body after the putt. Could also be up for the most dull video on Youtube award (I'm also a bit thinner now, honest). My point is I can do this on the mat, and as I said sunk 22 in a row from this range earlier, but on the green I'm missing everything from this sort of range. Kind of got me scratching my head if I'm honest so any suggestions would be welcome

The video isn't the best to look at putting mechanics, so I won't really comment on those.

Like I say, this was a couple of months ago I think and a bit has changed. If I keep struggling I'll post a more recent one for your deliberations but I'm probably corrected a bunch of things you're seeing in this vid. At least I hope I am!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

My point is I can do this on the mat, and as I said sunk 22 in a row from this range earlier, but on the green I'm missing everything from this sort of range. Kind of got me scratching my head if I'm honest so any suggestions would be welcome

I wouldn't even waste my time for one minute on a putting mat like that. You aren't reading the putt and you are hitting every on at the same speed and weight. Which makes you good at putting on that particular mat.  10 minutes practicing 6 footers from different spots on a real green would be better than a year on that thing for your stroke.

I don't know Shorty. See where you're coming from but I practice with a guy who plays on tour, was playing as an amateur off about +5 a year ago and he told me to practice my stroke on a putting mat and it really doesn't matter what type. He said he uses one all the time. The fact that any misses are due to a bad stroke rather than a blemish on a real green means you can better groove a putting stroke on it. At least that's what he told me. It's not a substitute for 'real' putting practice, more a means to an end to practice the putting stroke. Luckily I have time for both especially as I can do this at night.

BTW, I meant to add:

Get on a SAM PuttLab

Get with an AimPoint instructor

One of my coaches teaches AimPoint, will chat to him about it. Not sure if the academy has a SAM PuttLab but wouldn't be surprised, will go find out. Thanks.