Doral Opinions from Snedeker' Caddie

[iacas]

Alright guys, next year just show up and WD after playing 2 holes and you'll still get to walk home with $43,000. Boo Freakin Hoo, tough life.

I think you might have to play all four rounds. I don't think WDs count.

[skydog]

I think you might have to play all four rounds. I don't think WDs count.

They said otherwise on TGC (and they're never wrong :sarc:) but I don't know, you might be right.

Either way, just making the point that it's hard to have much sympathy for guys complaining about a guaranteed money event that they choose to play in. Go play Harbour Town if Doral is too long for you.

[iacas]

They said otherwise on TGC (and they're never wrong @sarc) but I don't know, you might be right.

Maybe.

For example, Vijay Singh had to play all 72 holes to win the FedExCup a few years back. A WD wouldn't have cut it.

[Silent]

Maybe.

For example, Vijay Singh had to play all 72 holes to win the FedExCup a few years back. A WD wouldn't have cut it.

You are right: http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2015/tournamentid=2015015/leaderboard/index.html

As you can see, Bjorn got € 0 after WD.

Either way, just making the point that it's hard to have much sympathy for guys complaining about a guaranteed money event that they choose to play in. Go play Harbour Town if Doral is too long for you.

+1

[Golfingdad]

Either way, just making the point that it's hard to have much sympathy for guys complaining about a guaranteed money event that they choose to play in. Go play Harbour Town if Doral is too long for you.

Come on guys ... this is a WGC event, not the Puerto Rico Open.  It's an earned spot and as "prestigious" of a win as any out there short of the Majors.  They are complaining because they feel (right or wrong - I am not siding with anybody here) that the setup is unfairly biased towards the longer hitters.  This also demonstrates pretty clearly that they are not there for the "guaranteed money," they are there to WIN.  All of them. (No matter what dipshit Greg Norman thinks)  And, in their minds, because of the course setup, its predetermined that they have no chance - I can see where the frustration stems from.

[Silent]

Well, in 2014 Reed was 1st, Donaldson 2nd.... Not particular long-hitters if I'm not mistaken. So besides the whiny way Poulter is presenting his criticism, he's also wrong about that in my opinion. Pointing at other things but yourself when playing not good enough is just a little bit silly.

[saevel25]

They are complaining because they feel (right or wrong - I am not siding with anybody here) that the setup is unfairly biased towards the longer hitters.  This also demonstrates pretty clearly that they are not there for the "guaranteed money," they are there to WIN.  All of them. (No matter what dipshit Greg Norman thinks)  And, in their minds, because of the course setup, its predetermined that they have no chance - I can see where the frustration stems from.

Over the past 5 years the average PGA Tour course yardage has been around 7200-7400 yards. So Dural is on the higher end of the average. It isn't like they were playing it stupid long. It wasn't like Bethpage Black when some of the players couldn't reach the fairway on one of the holes.

[Golfingdad]

Pointing at other things but yourself when playing not good enough is just a little bit silly.

Now this I will completely agree with, if that is all it is.  But it's also possible that this is a bit of an ad hominem counter argument because one of the complainers is Ian Poulter.

The reason why I'm not willing to completely write it off is because it also included Snedeker (well, his caddy, but its a safe bet that he's irritated on behalf of his boss) and, as I mentioned before, Bubba Watson.

Maybe there is something to the complaint, maybe there isn't, but writing it off as "Ian Poulter whining" is a little unfair since there are at least two others saying similar things.

Over the past 5 years the average PGA Tour course yardage has been around 7200-7400 yards. So Dural is on the higher end of the average. It isn't like they were playing it stupid long. It wasn't like Bethpage Black when some of the players couldn't reach the fairway on one of the holes.

Before this goes too far:  I'm not defending the complaints, and I'm not agreeing with the complaints ... I was only countering the "you can't whine BECAUSE you chose to play in it" argument.

I have, literally, no opinion on whether or not the course was fair.

[skydog]

I have, literally, no opinion on whether or not the course was fair.

Likewise. I will say though, typically IMO, a course is fair if the guys who are playing the best golf at any given time are in contention there on Sunday. (Side note: This is why Augusta is the best course and tournament IMO- it more often than not has a leaderboard filled with the best players). It's hard to argue that DJ, Holmes, and Bubba are not three of the best players in the world right now so in this sense, it seemed very fair. Yes, they are three of the longest hitters, but length benefits you hugely on most every course so that argument doesn't hold water IMO. Long courses don't necessarily require the longest hitters to win but they expose weaknesses more easily in the games of the shorter hitters.

[dsc123]

I don't understand why people don't like it when players complain about a course.

You know, that's just, like, their opinion, man.

[Golfingdad]

Likewise. I will say though, typically IMO, a course is fair if the guys who are playing the best golf at any given time are in contention there on Sunday. (Side note: This is why Augusta is the best course and tournament IMO- it more often than not has a leaderboard filled with the best players). It's hard to argue that DJ, Holmes, and Bubba are not three of the best players in the world right now so in this sense, it seemed very fair. Yes, they are three of the longest hitters, but length benefits you hugely on most every course so that argument doesn't hold water IMO. Long courses don't necessarily require the longest hitters to win but they expose weaknesses more easily in the games of the shorter hitters.

Yeah, these are good points.  All three of these guys have been playing well elsewhere this year too.  And DJ's and BJ's holes-in-one are also worth mentioning.  No need for extreme length to hit a good shot on a 180 yard par 3.  Not to mention that if they didn't get lucky and only got a birdie or even a par, then those three aren't necessarily the 3 guys leading.

But, on the flip side, Bubba is also one of the people who complained about the course.  He said either Friday or Saturday that he "hated" it.  But since he was playing well, it just gets laughed off because the "you're just whining because you suck" argument isn't there to be made.

[westcyderydin]

I think there should be a few tournaments that are as hard or almost as hard as the majors.  It is fun to watch the best players have to scrap their way around a course every once in a while.

But there are ways to make it difficult and then there are dumb ways to make it difficult...such as an area on a green that funnels into the water...or forced carries that are too far for the players to reach.

I don't know enough about Doral, but I can see how players might not like a course for reasons other than just being too difficult.

[cubdog]

I don't understand why people don't like it when players complain about a course.

You know, that's just, like, their opinion, man.

That's correct and they have a right to complain about a course if they choose to. And I could care less if they do. If they feel like a course set up discriminates against their game and voice their opinion so be it. I'd rather hear what players honestly think and feel than some sugar coated statement that sounds like a press release.

cubdog

[atb5079]

I don't understand why people don't like it when players complain about a course.

You know, that's just, like, their opinion, man.

Because they are whining about length. It is just patently false. Players of all abilities can win on this course. Sure, length helps, but tell me a course where being able to drive it 320+ hurts you. Its just the constant bitching from Poulter seems every month he has some issue. He just isn't actually that good. If you're gonna bitch, at least know your stats and bitch accurately. He was awful on the par 3s. That is why he finished T49; not because he can't hit it as far as Bubba.

[atb5079]

That's correct and they have a right to complain about a course if they choose to. And I could care less if they do. If they feel like a course set up discriminates against their game and voice their opinion so be it. I'd rather hear what players honestly think and feel than some sugar coated statement that sounds like a press release.

cubdog

Fine and dandy, but be accurate with your bitching then. That's all.

[Lastpick]

Harbor Town, the course immediately after the Masters doesn't require or reward distance as I recall.  Augusta National rewards precision shots, but punishes poor putting.  I think that Doral rewards distance, but it still requires shot making.  I enjoyed the tournament.  The 18th hole at Doral is really stacked against the shorter hitters.  It should be noted that all sports seem to favor the big guns, why should golf be any different.  Luke Donald did prove that you can be enormously successful as a short hitter, but a great shot maker, then he changed strategy.

[Kieran123]

I have learned to ignore Poulter's opinions/remarks.

[MikeyB]

Was behind ropes when players came in and didn't hear too much bitching. Most players were still friendly andsignedautographs but what was glaring was Rickie Fowler blowing off fans and not signing any autographs. I saw a couple kids wearing his clothes crying because he ignored them. Players should remember why they are making such good money