Playing Golf Without a (Swing) Thought

[Puttin4Dough]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

And he's free to respond, as am I. 🙂 Actually, I'm more so, since it's my topic, and you've never demonstrated that you understand what a "swing thought" is.

Your story was a sample size of one - you.

So Tiger has never ended-up wildly swinging and duck-hooking a driver, or blowing an iron shot?  

[iacas]

Just now, Puttin4Dough said:

So Tiger has never ended-up wildly swinging and duck-hooking a driver, or blowing an iron shot?  

🤦‍♂️

[Phil McGleno]

Dude-What is your actual problem here?

You do not like playing with a swing thought?-Good for you. I can not play without a good one. When I have one I play my best.

Swing thoughts are just feels-What I am working on, a key feel for the shot at hand-Things like that.

So what is your actual problem?-What is your point? I feel like you are just here to be negative-You do not have an actual point. What is your point in a sentence?

Put something out there to be picked at like you are trying to pick at others without actually saying anything.

[Puttin4Dough]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

🤦‍♂️

You know, the "let go of the club wild swing".  I'm sure that was part of his swing thought process, or was it the opposite of any swing thoughts?  I don't know.  My comment was in response to Vinsk so let him respond.   

19 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

Dude-What is your actual problem here?

You do not like playing with a swing thought?-Good for you. I can not play without a good one. When I have one I play my best.

Swing thoughts are just feels-What I am working on, a key feel for the shot at hand-Things like that.

So what is your actual problem?-What is your point? I feel like you are just here to be negative-You do not have an actual point. What is your point in a sentence?

Put something out there to be picked at like you are trying to pick at others without actually saying anything.

That's your swing thought.  What is your point?  I have to have your swing thought?

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, Puttin4Dough said:

My thought was "do the same thing when you hit" because they all felt correct, in balance, etc.  Then I got over the ball and hit the ugliest duck-hook in a long time with a huge reverse pivot.  This isn't just me, it happens to everyone.

That's not a swing thought though, you might as well think, "I hope the clubhouse has hot dogs at the turn" for all the good that does for you.

A swing thought is something specific that you intend to do with your swing. For example, things like "keep your arms in front" (my most common swing thought to avoid going too far in the backswing), "keep your heel down through impact" (another common one of mine), and "turn though the ball". 

"Do the same thing when you hit" isn't useful because you aren't thinking about anything specific. It's too broad to be useful, and if you were specifically thinking about every piece in the swing then it becomes too many thoughts to manage at once. The most any golfer can effectively juggle around, realistically, during the swing is 2 - one for the backswing and one for the downswing. That said, having only one is definitely better.

1 hour ago, Puttin4Dough said:

So what happened?  Why didn't my swing thought work?  And worse, why did my body actually reject everything I practiced just 30 seconds prior?  My answer is my swing thoughts introduced an underlying stress to replicate the practice swings.  Any thought related to an instruction "to do", or "not do" something invokes complication...stress. At the next tee box I literally didn't think of anything, and also, I took long breaths and checked my tension level.  Back to down the middle.  

What happened? You made a bad swing.

Why didn't the swing thought help it? Because it was either too general of a thought or because it was too many things to think about at once.

Why did it "make it worse"? Because you were too busy trying to copy every aspect of a previous swing to actually get out of your own way and swing, and you blamed a single bad shot on your swing thought (which was also bad).

1 hour ago, Puttin4Dough said:

As for Tiger, he stops his swing for a million reasons that only he knows.  He's one of the very few who does this.  IMO, he reacts to the slightest nuance, maybe a noise, some internal out-of-balance condition, over-thinking, etc.  Who knows?  And one could argue he caught himself tensing up due to too many thoughts, or he lost track of what he was doing.  I played with a guy last Sunday who literally stood over the ball for 30-40 seconds, then he took an abrupt swing and hit wild shots.  It was clear he was running through a set of instructions his body couldn't possibly carry-out in the required milliseconds of each movement.

Nobody can argue that he caught himself tensing up due to too many thoughts because he's said and demonstrated it himself that his stops are usually related to cameras, phones, or other noises.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JvQjsDMX5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMP9GorcLSY

He literally had his caddie act as the "camera police"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKCwv3S2rKE

Tiger isn't stopping because he's thinking. The guy you were playing with who stood over the ball for 30-40 seconds was probably just the average golfer. You can't say, "It was clear he was running through a set of instructions his body couldn't possibly carry out" when you didn't even bother to ask him why he stood there for so long. It happens with professional golfers too, such as Kevin Na or Keegan Bradley. Different golfers have different pre-shot routines, and some of them include what appears to be extended deliberation (regardless of what it is or isn't, and whether it should or shouldn't be present).

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Puttin4Dough said:

You know, the "let go of the club wild swing".  I'm sure that was part of his swing thought process, or was it the opposite of any swing thoughts?  I don't know.  My comment was in response to Vinsk so let him respond.

Irrelevant.

And I’m not doing anything to stop him from responding. Also I’ve already said that Tiger stopping mid-downswing is not a “swing thought.” It’s not the topic.

7 minutes ago, Puttin4Dough said:

That's your swing thought.  What is your point?  I have to have your swing thought?

I don’t think you understand the topic. Phil did not list a swing thought nor did he say anything about you having “his.”

You should answer his questions.

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, Puttin4Dough said:

"do the same thing when you hit"

That's not a swing thought. What that 'thing' was is. 'Feel the same way I did on that practice swing' is not a swing thought.

2 hours ago, Puttin4Dough said:

why did my body actually reject everything I practiced just 30 seconds prior?

You don't know that. It was just a practice swing. Maybe you did exactly as you did on your practice swing but it was a poor swing.

2 hours ago, Puttin4Dough said:

Any thought related to an instruction "to do", or "not do" something invokes complication...stress.

You just stated you 'checked your tension' and you hit it right down the middle. 

2 hours ago, Puttin4Dough said:

If thoughts translated into replicating action,

They do. As my point was, the swing thought may not replicate the action you think it does. And this may be a negative or a positive effect (outcome.) If I think, 'keep my trail arm straight in the backswing, is it actually staying straight? No. Does it help me to shorten my backswing? Yes. That's a swing thought that helps me produce a position I want yet what I'm feeling isn't actually happening. It's what I 'feel' to produce the desired outcome.

 

2 hours ago, Puttin4Dough said:

Swing thoughts are not definable, they are individualistic. 

Yes they are. Thus the topic @iacas created. The feel one has can certainly be individualistic but the example I gave (keep the trail elbow straight) is a feel many people can do and achieve a common outcome. Again, another topic Erik made that many found to be helpful.

And not to be a wise ass, but I'm not completely convinced you understand what a swing thought is.

[boogielicious]

7 hours ago, Puttin4Dough said:

You know, the "let go of the club wild swing".  I'm sure that was part of his swing thought process, or was it the opposite of any swing thoughts?  I don't know.  My comment was in response to Vinsk so let him respond.   

That's your swing thought.  What is your point?  I have to have your swing thought?

I'm trying to figure out whether you are being purposely obstinate in missing the point of the thread or you are misunderstanding for some other reason.

The objective of the thread is to help members of the site with the idea that one or two swing thoughts, which was defined in by the OP, during play may help our performance. You are arguing that that no one can do it, as you define it, during the active swing then going off on tangents about walking down stairs and such.

But as the rest of us read it and understand the definition of a swing thought, including the OP, a feel can be used to reinforce a motion and help us with performance. We've shown you videos of GOATs and World #1 players who are obviously doing what the OP defines as a swing thought and yet you still cling to your definition.

So where do we go from here? Are you still going to continue with your definition, which is different than everyone else? Because it is getting tiring. I suggest you start a thread with your definition and it can be debated there. Leave this one alone so the rest of us can learn.

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

But as the rest of us read it and understand the definition of a swing thought, including the OP, a feel can be used to reinforce a motion and help us with performance.

^This

I shot my best round ever having two swing thoughts. I found on the range that this particular swing thought/feel produced a nice draw. I made those feels my only focus for the round on my full swings.

That swing thought/feel has changed since I have made swing changes. It was the thought/feel that I needed at the time. Currently my swing thoughts are a bit more on the swing tempo, right elbow softness in the backswing, and a turn based feel for the downswing. I used these to shoot a couple over par the last time I played.

So yea, I find playing golf with swing thought/feels is a huge benefit.

[Puttin4Dough]

14 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I'm trying to figure out whether you are being purposely obstinate in missing the point of the thread or you are misunderstanding for some other reason.

The objective of the thread is to help members of the site with the idea that one or two swing thoughts, which was defined in by the OP, during play may help our performance. You are arguing that that no one can do it, as you define it, during the active swing then going off on tangents about walking down stairs and such.

But as the rest of us read it and understand the definition of a swing thought, including the OP, a feel can be used to reinforce a motion and help us with performance. We've shown you videos of GOATs and World #1 players who are obviously doing what the OP defines as a swing thought and yet you still cling to your definition.

So where do we go from here? Are you still going to continue with your definition, which is different than everyone else? Because it is getting tiring. I suggest you start a thread with your definition and it can be debated there. Leave this one alone so the rest of us can learn.

So your goal is to convince me that I'm misunderstanding other's thoughts and feels related to the golf swing?  If that's your point I 100% agree.  I have zero interest to tell anyone how they should feel, if they should or should not have thoughts because that is a circular argument. 

I see comments about "thoughts", then a blend of thought with "feel".  Then I see comments like "I know what I feel isn't what's going to happen, but feeling it translates into a thought", or "the thought of feeling what I'm not going to do helps me".   I'm confused, yet entertained.

You folks have your thoughts, I have mine.  

.  

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, Puttin4Dough said:

So your goal is to convince me that I'm misunderstanding other's thoughts and feels related to the golf swing?

No, that's not his goal.

10 minutes ago, Puttin4Dough said:

I have zero interest to tell anyone how they should feel, if they should or should not have thoughts because that is a circular argument.

This has nothing to do with "telling [someone] how they should feel" or anything like that.

10 minutes ago, Puttin4Dough said:

I see comments about "thoughts", then a blend of thought with "feel".

A swing thought is a feel. This is defined in the OP.

People aren't actually thinking "Okay, now, twist the grip so that my left wrist palmar flexes throughout the downswing…". Those are the words they'd use to describe their swing thought, but the swing thought itself is a FEEL that does that for them (or what they think does that for them).

10 minutes ago, Puttin4Dough said:

Then I see comments like "I know what I feel isn't what's going to happen, but feeling it translates into a thought", or "the thought of feeling what I'm not going to do helps me". I'm confused, yet entertained.

You're right about the confused part. May be the first accurate thing you've said in this discussion.

---

A swing thought is nothing more than a feeling of doing something. For example, one of my players tips back during the downswing, failing to get his weight forward and hitting a lot of shots fat. His swing thought - described in words - is "get my right shirt seam forward."

He doesn't think of those words during the swing, but the feeling of "getting his right shirt seam forward" is what he wants to FEEL during the downswing.

Doing so allows him to play better golf.

The best players in the world use swing thoughts. They may not be for literally everyone, and there are times everyone hits shots without swing thoughts, but for what may be a large majority, swing thoughts can and do help them play better golf.

[Vinsk]

11 minutes ago, Puttin4Dough said:

So does a thought translate into execution of that thought?  is a thought a feel translated to thought?  Is a thought translated into a feel?  Plus, nobody answered my question about why I reverse pivoted after rehearsing, and thinking about, a swing that was the opposite of what occurred.  It happens to everyone, over and over, but folks gloss-over that comment because it's convenient to avoid reality.  And why does any pro snap hook a drive after all their "swing thoughts"?  What went haywire?  Hey, they're the best of the best, how could that happen?  It's their friggin' job.

Zero sense. I’m afraid you simply don’t understand this thread at all. Are you actually implying that when you or a tour player or any golfer stripes a shot it’s because they ‘must’ve not had any thoughts at all.’? Seriously...wtf are you talking about?

[iacas]

15 hours ago, boogielicious said:

So where do we go from here? Are you still going to continue with your definition, which is different than everyone else? Because it is getting tiring. I suggest you start a thread with your definition and it can be debated there. Leave this one alone so the rest of us can learn.

This is the law of the land, @Puttin4Dough.

[GOATee]

Swing thoughts are for improvement, and almost everyone needs improvement.

No swing thoughts are if you already have an amazing swing and don't want to mess with what is already working.

Edited January 25, 2019 by GOATee

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, GOATee said:

No swing thoughts are if you already have an amazing swing and don't want to mess with what is already working.

Maybe but even pros have swing thoughts. Nicklaus admitted to playing with multiple swing thoughts and you hear pros all the time talking about feels or thoughts they had that round/week.

[NotSoMiniTiger]

One of the best swing thoughts I've had is to just complete the backswing with the club being "thrown" in unison with the legs and upper body to the top. Practice this for a month and one day that club is just going to come down and through to the finish for you.

My swing thought is just finish the backswing. Everything else happens automatically. It uncoils on its own. 

[Vinsk]

10 hours ago, GOATee said:

don't want to mess with what is already working.

Maybe, yes. But many times the swing is working while having a swing thought.

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, NotSoMiniTiger said:

One of the best swing thoughts I've had is to just complete the backswing with the club being "thrown" in unison with the legs and upper body to the top. Practice this for a month and one day that club is just going to come down and through to the finish for you.

My swing thought is just finish the backswing. Everything else happens automatically. It uncoils on its own. 

I think you meant to post here.😀