Rushing Because of Faster Players Behind

[No Mulligans]

No, my position is that if someone catches me on the tee and there is a clear hole to the green ahead... I will invite them to play through. The twosome behind never reached the tee before I cleared the green till 18.

Your position is that one should expect someone to wait for the group 2 or 3 shots behind to pass?

My point was that the emphasis on speed by some encourages disregard for those who do not meet the standards set by the speedsters.

If you cleared the green before they arrived to the tee box, then they never had to wait until the 18th.  However, if that was the case, I'm not sure why you felt rushed.  I wouldn't feel rushed until someone was actually waiting on me.

They were wrong to hit into you,  Maybe they did that by mistake?

From the title, I thought this was about "Speed Golf".  Full round in 30 minutes, that has been done, that's speed golf.

[Moppy]

If you cleared the green before they arrived to the tee box, then they never had to wait until the 18th.  However, if that was the case, I'm not sure why you felt rushed.  I wouldn't feel rushed until someone was actually waiting on me.

I feel rushed when people are gaining on me, its' like the "Who Are Those Guys" bit from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

But I have recognized that that is my issue, not the people behind me, and I have to deal with it mentally to not ruin my own round. The OP recognizes this too. Just because somebody feels rushed does not automatically, ipso facto, prove that they are holding anybody up.

Fast golfers have a right to play through when there is open space ahead, but they don't have an absolute right at all times never to be inconvenienced in any way by their fellow humans on a golf course.

[CR McDivot]

Why are you trying to put it down to "speed golfing"?

...Nobody is saying that you have to wait for someone to catch you, but if you speed up to stay ahead even though there is room in front for people to play through I don't think you have much reason to complain that you played poorly for speeding up...

Speed golf is a relative term!

I willfully became the "speed golfer" by not parking my tail for 15 minutes to allow the twosome behind to catch me and play through. Changed my pace, ruined my concentration. Still played decent, but could have been better. Poor etiquette on my part.

For me - speed golf sucks!

The twosome behind me were not necessarily speeding as they never did catch me till 18 where they made an etiquette error.

I think both they and I emerged wiser.

[Jon Hoover]

Really though topics like are contrary to what the golfing community needs. We need people to play faster its better for the game as a whole. Three million golfers quit the game every year, and it's safe to say that slow play is one of the leading culprits. Just last year, more than half the respondents to a GolfDigest.com survey said that frustration over slow play has caused them to quit and walk in during a round. Some of them kept right on walking.

Respondents to a GolfDigest.com survey rate their own pace of play versus other golfers:
Q: How would you rate your own pace of play?
Fast:	57.8 percent
Average:	37.4 percent
Slow:	4.8 percent
Q: How would you rate most golfers' pace of play?
Slow:	56.2 percent
Average:	41.8 percent
Fast:	2.0 percent

Quote:

Two days spent following groups at Torrey Pines outside San Diego and a day watching resort golfers at Pebble Beach showed that average men are likely to be slow. The slow-playing men were very deliberate on every stroke, often taking two or more practice swings. They would stand and watch each shot until it stopped and then slowly put the club away and move on. When I approached them to say that I was from the USGA and that I had determined that they were a slow group, they were shocked. Typical response: "I've never been told that I'm slow, and I don't believe it." Or there was indignation: "I paid good money to enjoy my round, and I deserve to take as much time as I need."

In all lets encourage fast or faster play even if you feel your playing fast someone else is probably thinking you not playing fast enough.

[trackster]

Played 18 today walking as a single. Teed at 11:30 am and finished at 3:02 pm for a total of 3:32 on a course that lists playing time at 4:30. Generally had a good round with one single directly ahead for 9, and a twosome ahead of him for 9. Even though the twosome was a might inexperienced they played at a decent pace leaving us ahead of pace through the front.

When I reached the tee at 10, I could see a clear green in front, and no one for 4 holes behind. By 12 I caught sight of a twosome in a cart on the 11 green, and when I teed on 13 they were on the second shot of the par 5 twelfth.

I stepped up my pace, and cleared every green before the twosome behind hit tee shots, but by the time I was on the par four 18 green the speedsters hit into me!

Now I was a bit perturbed. I had felt rushed since 13 and dropped a good 3 or 4 strokes through 18 because of this, even though I was NOT anywhere near behind pace. And then the speed golfers hit into me before I cleared the green on the last hole of the round.

I cleared the green and when the young (teen to twenty something) culprit came towards his putt I approached and politely explained that I had played nearly an hour ahead of pace and did not appreciate being hit into. I noted that etiquette is also a part of the game.

The young fellow was very polite and apologetic and we parted as gentlemen, but I am convinced that the concept of "Speed Golf" is even more detrimental to the spirit of the game than slow play!

Good etiquette is basically consideration of your fellows on the course. Play at a proper pace and NEVER hit into another player especially if you are only trying to set a land speed record!

Rant over, it's my own fault I felt rushed. Should have just played my own (ahead of pace) round and let the rabbits rant about the slow old man instead.

The part I bolded is what doesn't sit right with me.  Just because you had a group behind you does not mean that you were "rushed."  If you felt rushed, why didn't you keep your normal pace and let them pass?  From what you described they made up 4 holes by the time you went from hole 10 to hole 12.  At this pace they would have passed you by 14 or 15.

What you have described has nothing to do with "speed golf" (what ever that is...).  It was just poor decision making on their part to hit into a green that you were on.  Playing 3:32 as a single on an open course is slow, in addition you said that you "sped up" suggesting that your round would have been even slower.  The suggested time is set up in a manor that would cover every possible group playing, or most notably a group of four.  Just because you are "ahead of pace" does not mean that you are not expected to let faster groups play through.

[Hatchman]

The part I bolded is what doesn't sit right with me.  Just because you had a group behind you does not mean that you were "rushed."  If you felt rushed, why didn't you keep your normal pace and let them pass?  From what you described they made up 4 holes by the time you went from hole 10 to hole 12.  At this pace they would have passed you by 14 or 15.   What you have described has nothing to do with "speed golf" (what ever that is...).  It was just poor decision making on their part to hit into a green that you were on.  Playing 3:32 as a single on an open course is slow, in addition you said that you "sped up" suggesting that your round would have been even slower.  The suggested time is set up in a manor that would cover every possible group playing, or most notably a group of four.  Just because you are "ahead of pace" does not mean that you are not expected to let faster groups play through.

Yea. You see it too. He was outed in my earlier post by his admission of notice on holes 11, 12, and 13. After that it was on him to set the pace or let pass. Our course has just let walkers on. The owner never approved until several has demonstrated they can keep pace. There is a finiancial component here also, it's not a park to stroll in.

[CR McDivot]

I have noticed that several, if not the majority of the replies have clearly voiced an opinion that pace of play is determined by their own concept of what suits their own selfish interest.

Those who have bothered to read ALL of my posts on this will easily discern that I blame myself for allowing my pace to be disrupted by perceived pressure to stay ahead of a group that was playing faster than I. I have repeatedly stated that I would have been wiser to suspend rather than speed up my play and take that inconvenience as a consideration of the group behind, technically warranted or not.

Where did that perceived pressure come from? From folks like you who believe you have an intrinsic right to force your concept of acceptable pace on others who are in fact playing well inside of the course's stated pace for the course.

Tell me, is your inconvenience of a greater matter than mine? Is your time more valuable than my enjoyment of peaceful round? Are you willing to behave in a more gentlemanly manner than I?

Not in my mind!

I am not a slow player. Your opinion on this is not my concern. Deal with your own issues.

If you wish to play through and there is more than half a hole ahead, politely ask and I will gladly comply. If you are too far away to ask, why are you concerned?

Are you willing to adjust your pace as a consideration of me?

Yeah, that's what I thought!

Not really 50/50 is it, Hatchman?

[Duff McGee]

Your response just proves what we have suspected about your attitude. No one here thinks their round is more valuable than yours. But I gave an example of how to handle your EXACT situation I had just the other night. I started to feel the faster guys breathing down my neck a little so I took a break, stopped and had some water, and 3 minutes later here they come. I then comtinued my peaceful round. Very simple.

[AmazingWhacker]

There's a lot of talk on this site about pace of play - people griping about slow players, people griping about "speed demons", discussing round times, yada yada.  It's really simple, though . .you are supposed to stay "in position" with the group ahead of you.  If you walk to the tee and there is nobody on your hole (and it's not a par 3), you are "out of position".  If the course is packed, you should work to get back into position asap.  If you just can't do it, you should skip a hole - especially if you are a beginner/very high handicapper.  If you're not a beginner or very high capper, you should be able to get back in position if you try.

Of course, sometimes the course is empty and there isn't anybody directly in front of you . . in this case, if a group is pressing from behind, invite them to play through and keep on at your own pace.

If the group in front of you is slow but in position with the slow group in front of them who are in position with the slow group ahead of them, yada yada - all you can really do is curse your bad luck or try playing different times/courses.  This is when marshals should come into play . .if you're lucky enough to be at a course where marshals will address pace of play.   Somebody up there is holding up a bunch of other groups and should be told to pick up the pace.  Either that or the tee times are too close together.

[CR McDivot]

[CR McDivot]

Your response just proves what we have suspected about your attitude...

Love your avatar!

[Duff McGee]

Thank you[quote name="CR McDivot" url="/t/83251/speed-golf-sucks/60#post_1169801"] Love your avatar! [/quote]. Thank you. Some people collect stamps, I collect "this is Sparta" memes.

[finn0903]

Or you could have let them play through if the course was open ahead of you as well, avoiding any possible confrontation and resulting in a happy ending for all parties involved.

Definitely seems like the best choice.

[Hatchman]

Sorry CR, was out last evening playing in a SLOW playing event that took until dark. The reality is it's not really 50\50 on this issue. I do like what you said if they ask, I have and they have let me pass or joined. In closing, it's like driving in the left lane of the freeway enjoying the drive at the posted speed limit. Others see it differently. Enjoy the drive!

[Moppy]

Your response just proves what we have suspected about your attitude.

No one here thinks their round is more valuable than yours. But I gave an example of how to handle your EXACT situation I had just the other night.

I started to feel the faster guys breathing down my neck a little so I took a break, stopped and had some water, and 3 minutes later here they come. I then comtinued my peaceful round. Very simple.

The weird thing is that this is exactly what the OP said he should have done. However. He did not slow up the group behind him until the middle of the  18TH HOLE. Then they hit into him because they couldn't control their ADHD.

Anybody who says that he was out of line for not waiting on the 18th tee for them to finish the 17th green in order to let them play through on the 18TH HOLE is basically saying that the speed golfer's time is more valuable and that courtesy on the course is a one way street.

[VOX]

Played 18 today walking as a single. Teed at 11:30 am and finished at 3:02 pm for a total of 3:32 on a course that lists playing time at 4:30. Generally had a good round with one single directly ahead for 9, and a twosome ahead of him for 9. Even though the twosome was a might inexperienced they played at a decent pace leaving us ahead of pace through the front. When I reached the tee at 10, I could see a clear green in front, and no one for 4 holes behind. By 12 I caught sight of a twosome in a cart on the 11 green, and when I teed on 13 they were on the second shot of the par 5 twelfth. I stepped up my pace, and cleared every green before the twosome behind hit tee shots, but by the time I was on the par four 18 green the speedsters hit into me! Now I was a bit perturbed. I had felt rushed since 13 and dropped a good 3 or 4 strokes through 18 because of this, even though I was NOT anywhere near behind pace . And then the speed golfers hit into me before I cleared the green on the last hole of the round. I cleared the green and when the young (teen to twenty something) culprit came towards his putt I approached and politely explained that I had played nearly an hour ahead of pace and did not appreciate being hit into. I noted that etiquette is also a part of the game. The young fellow was very polite and apologetic and we parted as gentlemen, but I am convinced that the concept of "Speed Golf" is even more detrimental to the spirit of the game than slow play! Good etiquette is basically consideration of your fellows on the course. Play at a proper pace and NEVER hit into another player especially if you are only trying to set a land speed record! Rant over, it's my own fault I felt rushed. Should have just played my own (ahead of pace) round and let the rabbits rant about the slow old man instead. :whistle:

1:32 could be considered speed golf for a single. 3:32 is tortoise golf. I bet you are one of those guys who drives 55 miles per hour in the left lane of the highway and doesn't let others pass because you are "going the speed limit".

[Moppy]

1:32 could be considered speed golf for a single. 3:32 is tortoise golf. I bet you are one of those guys who drives 55 miles per hour in the left lane of the highway and doesn't let others pass because you are "going the speed limit".

I bet you are one of those guys who think that the golfers were justified hitting into the OP for holding them up for two minutes on the final hole.

BTW, I would love to see some of you guys walk a hilly Vermont course in under three hours. What's next, you are not allowed to walk if you are over 50?

[trackster]

I have noticed that several, if not the majority of the replies have clearly voiced an opinion that pace of play is determined by their own concept of what suits their own selfish interest.

Those who have bothered to read ALL of my posts on this will easily discern that I blame myself for allowing my pace to be disrupted by perceived pressure to stay ahead of a group that was playing faster than I. I have repeatedly stated that I would have been wiser to suspend rather than speed up my play and take that inconvenience as a consideration of the group behind, technically warranted or not.

Where did that perceived pressure come from? From folks like you who believe you have an intrinsic right to force your concept of acceptable pace on others who are in fact playing well inside of the course's stated pace for the course.

Tell me, is your inconvenience of a greater matter than mine? Is your time more valuable than my enjoyment of peaceful round? Are you willing to behave in a more gentlemanly manner than I?

Not in my mind!

I am not a slow player. Your opinion on this is not my concern. Deal with your own issues.

If you wish to play through and there is more than half a hole ahead, politely ask and I will gladly comply. If you are too far away to ask, why are you concerned?

Are you willing to adjust your pace as a consideration of me?

Yeah, that's what I thought!

Not really 50/50 is it, Hatchman?

No. People's opinions on pace of play have been influenced by experience with golfers backing up a course with slow play.  It's not selfish to expect a reasonable pace of play for golf; however, it is selfish to think that your pace of play is a non-issue because you are entitled to a "peaceful round."

I think you need to bother to read all of your posts.  Sure you have stated that you would have been better off letting them play through; however you have constantly battled that they were in the wrong rushing you with "speed golf." (Can someone please define what "speed golf" is for me?) You even complained of dropping strokes from feeling rushed.

You may not be a slow player, but you played this 18 slow.  3:32 with an open course for a single is slow.

And yes I would adjust my pace of play for anyone (including you).  If they are playing at a faster pace than me then I would let them play through.  And if they are holding me up I will patiently wait and by no means try to hit into them.  However, if you drag me around the course when I am clearly playing at a faster pace than you, I will take issue with that and there will likely be a different sided conversation after the 18th green than you had.

The weird thing is that this is exactly what the OP said he should have done. However. He did not slow up the group behind him until the middle of the  18TH HOLE. Then they hit into him because they couldn't control their ADHD.

Anybody who says that he was out of line for not waiting on the 18th tee for them to finish the 17th green in order to let them play through on the 18TH HOLE is basically saying that the speed golfer's time is more valuable and that courtesy on the course is a one way street.

I think we need more to the story than was given in the OP.  He says that they played 4 holes in about the time it took him to play 2, then he played ahead of them for the next 5, then they were able to hit into him on 18?  I think the group behind was closer on holes 12-17 then we are lead to believe.

Don't joke about ADHD.  I know people who actually have it and it's not funny.

I agree he shouldn't of waited for them on the 18th tee.  He should have let them play through long before that.

And no this is not about speed golf (again I need a definition).  This was a poor decision by a golfer who decided to hit a ball into a green that someone was occupying.