58 Degree SW Issues

[Arthur Dent]

New guy here.

Been playing a long time, handicap sadly about 20 these days.

I had never been able to hit my sand wedge from the fairway.  I finally broke down and traded in my 20 year old sand wedge for a new Cleveland,  Love the club, played with it the first time today.

HOWEVER - a question / issue.

The new club is 58 degrees, average bounce (12).  When I hit it off of the fairway, I close the face down (i.e., move the ball further back in my stance)  to remove the bounce so I can cleanly hit down on the ball to launch it.

When I took it to the driving range, I was  hitting it about 75 yards, which is fine. Driving range  won't let me hit down on the rubber mat like I would on a fairway.

So here's the dilemma - on the course today, when I closed the face down, hit down on the ball, and took the 'right' divot, the ball flew.  Not the same ball flight as the range, but more of a penetrating flight that climbed and then dropped - but I couldn't get a good read on how far I was hitting the ball.

When I didn't close the face as much, obviously it was a higher, softer shot, but bounce came into play.  But in closing the blade with a tight lie, the change in trajectory really put the ball much further out.

Without wasting precious shots on the course trying to figure this out, is there some kind of 'rule of thumb' to get an idea of how long I should expect the ball flight with a closed face?

Am I missing something?

[Fozcycle]

Try the SCOR wedges.  They have a "V sole" that keeps you from digging a hole in the fairway.   I have a 57* and get 61-70 yds out of a full swing.  Currently, the last available SCOR's are on ebay for aboyt $70 apiece.  This is because they now make the new Ben Hogan irons and wedges...

[Arthur Dent]

Not quite ready to give up on the new Cleveland.  I like it from a fluffy lie and in sand, just can't figure out how to judge the distance when removing the bounce.

The driving range doesn't help because I can't hit that hard down and take a divot on a rubber mat.

Other than that, it's a great sand wedge.

[mvmac]

The new club is 58 degrees, average bounce (12).  When I hit it off of the fairway, I close the face down (i.e., move the ball further back in my stance)  to remove the bounce so I can cleanly hit down on the ball to launch it.

When I took it to the driving range, I was  hitting it about 75 yards, which is fine. Driving range  won't let me hit down on the rubber mat like I would on a fairway.

So here's the dilemma - on the course today, when I closed the face down, hit down on the ball, and took the 'right' divot, the ball flew.  Not the same ball flight as the range, but more of a penetrating flight that climbed and then dropped - but I couldn't get a good read on how far I was hitting the ball.

When I didn't close the face as much, obviously it was a higher, softer shot, but bounce came into play.  But in closing the blade with a tight lie, the change in trajectory really put the ball much further out.

Without wasting precious shots on the course trying to figure this out, is there some kind of 'rule of thumb' to get an idea of how long I should expect the ball flight with a closed face?

Am I missing something?

I wouldn't fool around with the face very much. For distance control will full-ish wedge shots, just change how far you take it back.

Also you still want to use the bounce on tight lies, helps ensure more consistent contact and distance control.

[Arthur Dent]

I understand that, but without positioning the ball further back in my stance (which removes the bounce), I scull the shot.

[David in FL]

I understand that, but without positioning the ball further back in my stance (which removes the bounce), I scull the shot.

It's not the bounce that's causing your problems it's your swing. A common mistake trying to hit a full SW....heck, a 58* is really a lob wedge , is to get flippy and try to scoop the ball into the air. It's very easy to blade the ball when you do that... Honestly, assuming you have one, I'd recommend working on a 3/4 shot with your 52* or 54* rather than a full shot with the 58*, as @mvmac recommends in the first thread he linked to. Welcome to the site! :beer:

[Arthur Dent]

Could be.  I've been focusing on hitting down on the ball,since I have never been able to hit my old sw off the fairway.

You're saying hit down hard enough to negate the bounce and not put it further back in my stance?

[Arthur Dent]

Just really trying to hit it off a tight lie repeatedly without sculling at this point.  It was fine from the rough and sand.

[Golfingdad]

Agree 100% with @David in FL .   I've stopped using my 58 off the fairway anymore as I've improved on partial wedge shots - thanks to @mvmac 's thread mentioned above - with the "flighted" shot approach.  Now the 58 has been relegated to basically just greenside and bunker play.

[Arthur Dent]

So you are just pretty much using 1/2 - 3/4 pitching wedge shots?

[mvmac]

Could be.  I've been focusing on hitting down on the ball,since I have never been able to hit my old sw off the fairway.

You're saying hit down hard enough to negate the bounce and not put it further back in my stance?

Bounce is your friend, even on 1/2 to full wedge shots. You don't want to "negate" the bounce. You're skulling it because something is off with your swing. Weight isn't forward enough and/or you're flipping it, that's why you can't "hit down".

[Golfingdad]

So you are just pretty much using 1/2 - 3/4 pitching wedge shots?

3/4 everything from about 160 down to about 100 yards, which is a 3/4 54* wedge, and then from there to 55 yards, just shorter swings with the 54. From inside of 55, it's pitch shots with the 54 until green side. Then it's mostly the 58. But like Mvmac said above, I'm NEVER not utilizing the bounce on any of those clubs. Bounce helps!

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Dent

I understand that, but without positioning the ball further back in my stance (which removes the bounce), I scull the shot.

It's not the bounce that's causing your problems it's your swing. A common mistake trying to hit a full SW....heck, a 58* is really a lob wedge, is to get flippy and try to scoop the ball into the air. It's very easy to blade the ball when you do that...

Honestly, assuming you have one, I'd recommend working on a 3/4 shot with your 52* or 54* rather than a full shot with the 58*, as @mvmac recommends in the first thread he linked to.

Welcome to the site!

@Arthur Dent

I took this advice from @David in FL a couple of seasons ago and it was the best advice. I will only hit a full 58 if I absolutely have no other alternative. I can only remember one time this season. The 3/4 and 1/2 shots are more accurate and I make more consistent contact for better distance control. My 100 yard shot is a 3/4 PW. It used to be a full gap wedge.

Review the threads @mvmac posted. Go to a grass range and start working on them. This technique is easier to master than full swing mechanics too. You will have an easier time becoming proficient with it too.

[Arthur Dent]

It makes sense.

I am also thinking of adding a gap wedge/ Recommendations for a gap wedge?  52 degrees sound about right? 8 degree boounce?

[Mr. Desmond]

Not quite ready to give up on the new Cleveland.  I like it from a fluffy lie and in sand, just can't figure out how to judge the distance when removing the bounce.

The driving range doesn't help because I can't hit that hard down and take a divot on a rubber mat.

Other than that, it's a great sand wedge.

What do you think bounce does?

There are also many ways to get 12 deg of bounce -- wide sole, higher leading edge, etc.

Bounce is typically a forgiving feature of a club, because it helps the club slide if  you hit it slightly fat. But its effect also depends on setup -- the problem with setting the ball in the back of your stance is that it is a hit or miss proposition - you've got to be accurate or you chunk or thin and can get inconsistent yardage.

If you are skulling on a normal lie from a middle to front positioning of the ball, I'd say the issue is your swing, weight, etc.

Weight forward, flat left wrist at impact, make divot in front of ball. Stay with relaxed muscles.

[Arthur Dent]

From my perspective when looking down at the club, the 58 seems to have the leading edge sitting up a bit when placed on the ground.

The only way to make the leading edge the first point of contact (to me, that is) was to move the ball a bit further back in my stance. In doing this, I change the trajectory of the shot drastically from the fairway, and that's my real issue.

There aren't any grass driving ranges that I am aware of in my area. Well, there is one at the local college, but it is primarily hard pan.

I liked the 58 TREMENDOUSLY from the rough around the green with the right lie, and it was amazing out of traps.  Truly effortless.

The more I read the responses and ask around, I'm being told I"m really looking for a gap wedge.

[mvmac]

From my perspective when looking down at the club, the 58 seems to have the leading edge sitting up a bit when placed on the ground.

The only way to make the leading edge the first point of contact (to me, that is) was to move the ball a bit further back in my stance. In doing this, I change the trajectory of the shot drastically from the fairway, and that's my real issue.

The leading edge being a little off the ground is fine, can still hit great shots. Again, bounce is your friend.

[Arthur Dent]

Now THAT was very interesting!