Offset in irons help or hindrance to your game?

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="mvmac" url="/t/84627/offset-in-irons-help-or-hindrance-to-your-game/18#post_1205514"]   Agree with @Phil McGleno , bogey golf and hitting the ball well (hitting GIR) don't go together.  [CONTENTEMBED=/t/67014/keys-vs-handicap-share-your-data layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED]   [/QUOTE] If you're in the woods off the tee regularly and three putt much of the time, I be willing to bet you won't even make it to bogey golf.

Nah, bad golf can still get a few pars here and there. :-P You just need to learn to make those low punch shots under trees and high flops over them. . .:-D

[DrvFrShow]

Agree with @Phil McGleno, bogey golf and hitting the ball well (hitting GIR) don't go together.

As my Game Golf round shows how lousy one has to play to shoot a 90. 90 is 18 over par; 17 over the course rating. This is not a great round. I had 36 putts. I three putted two greens, so 18 over is not the putter. I even wish I had Tiger's current game. We hackers need all the help we can get.

PS: throw an eagle in the round, too.

[JonMA1]

 

I don't know if I agree with the 20 handicap though there are many ways to get to a 20 handicap. some 20 handicaps can have a decent iron game and horrible tee ball or putting

I agree. There are a lot of ways to stink up a round of golf. I believe (or con myself into thinking) parts of my game are good enough for

Having said that, if @Phil McGleno and @mvmac say it's rare, I have to believe it is. Perhaps the term "decent iron game" means different things to different people.

Back on topic, my new GI irons (with offset I assume) have made a positive difference in my game this year. Not as much as an improved swing has, but I'll take any additional help I can get.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="jcjim" url="/t/84627/offset-in-irons-help-or-hindrance-to-your-game/18#post_1205350"]   [CONTENTEMBED=/t/84627/offset-in-irons-help-or-hindrance-to-your-game/18#post_1205340 layout=inline]I don't know if I agree with the 20 handicap though there are many ways to get to a 20 handicap. some 20 handicaps can have a decent iron game and horrible tee ball or putting[/CONTENTEMBED] [/QUOTE] I agree. There are a lot of ways to stink up a round of golf. I believe (or con myself into thinking) parts of my game are good enough for @Phil McGleno  and @mvmac  say it's rare, I have to believe it is. Perhaps the term "decent iron game" means different things to different people. Back on topic, my new GI irons (with offset I assume) have made a positive difference in my game this year. Not as much as an improved swing has, but I'll take any additional help I can get.

Decent game in general means you don't struggle to get near greens. I would assume that a decent iron game means having a decent game despite being horrible off the tee? An exception might be the senior golfer who drives 175 but still makes pars because of lengthy experience at the game and can make better than PGA average putts?

[mvmac]

I agree. There are a lot of ways to stink up a round of golf. I believe (or con myself into thinking) parts of my game are good enough for  

Having said that, if @Phil McGleno and @mvmac say it's rare, I have to believe it is. Perhaps the term "decent iron game" means different things to different people.

 

Yes while we can all have an occasional bad putting round that inflates our scores a bit there isn't a golfer out there (or it's very rare) that regularly hits 8-9 GIR, 16-17 near-GIR's and shoots 90.

Back on topic, my new GI irons (with offset I assume) have made a positive difference in my game this year. Not as much as an improved swing has, but I'll take any additional help I can get.

 

Good to hear, it's awesome when those two things come together.

[JonMA1]

Decent game in general means you don't struggle to get near greens. I would assume that a decent iron game means having a decent game despite being horrible off the tee? An exception might be the senior golfer who drives 175 but still makes pars because of lengthy experience at the game and can make better than PGA average putts?

Yes while we can all have an occasional bad putting round that inflates our scores a bit there isn't a golfer out there (or it's very rare) that regularly hits 8-9 GIR, 16-17 near-GIR's and shoots 90.

Not trying to put words in anyone else's post, but what I took from @jcjim is that there are folks who can hit an above-average amount of greens (relative to a bogey golfer), but because they are hitting them after a penalty or punch out (as a result of a bad tee shot), that type of iron play still isn't enough to allow them to score low. Combined with a poor short game or poor putting skills, and it isn't that hard to imagine how scores could be high.

I don't want to be "that guy" who counters every opinion with a personal experience, so please bear with me on this. I habitually 3 putt - not just occasionally. And I earn several penalties off the tee per round. These are glaring weaknesses, I admit. Within the last month and a half, I would guess I've hit 50% of greens from 120 to 150 yards (any further out and my percentage drops, closer than 120 and I expect to hit at least a near green). The trouble is, these greens are not hit in regulation.

My point is that a low GIR percentage is not always indicative of poor iron play. To put it another way, if I were to play an alternate shot type of round with a very skilled player where I would tee off, then he would hit as many shots as was necessary to be on the green, and then I would putt out, our score would still not be very impressive. Obviously, his iron play would be such that he'd not only hit more greens, he'd also get it closer to the pin. Unfortunately, he'd occasionally be hitting our 3rd or 4th from the fairway (due to my poor tee shots) and I'd still be 2 putting where the average bogey golfer might 1 putt.

[Lihu]

A low near green stat is indicative non decent iron play. No matter what you putt.

[saevel25]

Not trying to put words in anyone else's post, but what I took from @jcjim is that there are folks who can hit an above-average amount of greens (relative to a bogey golfer), but because they are hitting them after a penalty or punch out (as a result of a bad tee shot), that type of iron play still isn't enough to allow them to score low. Combined with a poor short game or poor putting skills, and it isn't that hard to imagine how scores could be high.

The instances he is talking about is very rare. Also, if you are that poor in hitting tee shots then you are probably a bad iron player. The full swing is the full swing. They go hand in hand. If they have a good long game they should know how to get around the course and avoid trouble. Are their good ball strikers with bad short games and bad putting. Yea, but they are still not playing bogey golf. In the end they still will hit like 40% greens and make a good amount of pars.

I would point them to this thread,

My point is that a low GIR percentage is not always indicative of poor iron play. To put it another way, if I were to play an alternate shot type of round with a very skilled player where I would tee off, then he would hit as many shots as was necessary to be on the green, and then I would putt out, our score would still not be very impressive. Obviously, his iron play would be such that he'd not only hit more greens, he'd also get it closer to the pin. Unfortunately, he'd occasionally be hitting our 3rd or 4th from the fairway (due to my poor tee shots) and I'd still be 2 putting where the average bogey golfer might 1 putt.

If you hit the tee shots, and lets say a PGA Tour player hits the iron shots, and the short game and you would putt. You would shoot single digit or better.

Even if you left a PGA Tour player 175-200 yards into each hole. He would average 31-36 FT from the pin with 56% GIR.

Unless you jack 5 balls OB you are shooting a good round if he did all the work from after the tee shot till you putt.

[JonMA1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonMA1

Not trying to put words in anyone else's post, but what I took from @jcjim is that there are folks who can hit an above-average amount of greens (relative to a bogey golfer), but because they are hitting them after a penalty or punch out (as a result of a bad tee shot), that type of iron play still isn't enough to allow them to score low. Combined with a poor short game or poor putting skills, and it isn't that hard to imagine how scores could be high.

The instances he is talking about is very rare. Also, if you are that poor in hitting tee shots then you are probably a bad iron player. The full swing is the full swing. They go hand in hand. If they have a good long game they should know how to get around the course and avoid trouble. Are their good ball strikers with bad short games and bad putting. Yea, but they are still not playing bogey golf. In the end they still will hit like 40% greens and make a good amount of pars.

I would point them to this thread,

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonMA1

My point is that a low GIR percentage is not always indicative of poor iron play. To put it another way, if I were to play an alternate shot type of round with a very skilled player where I would tee off, then he would hit as many shots as was necessary to be on the green, and then I would putt out, our score would still not be very impressive. Obviously, his iron play would be such that he'd not only hit more greens, he'd also get it closer to the pin. Unfortunately, he'd occasionally be hitting our 3rd or 4th from the fairway (due to my poor tee shots) and I'd still be 2 putting where the average bogey golfer might 1 putt.

If you hit the tee shots, and lets say a PGA Tour player hits the iron shots, and the short game and you would putt. You would shoot single digit or better.

Even if you left a PGA Tour player 175-200 yards into each hole. He would average 31-36 FT from the pin with 56% GIR.

Unless you jack 5 balls OB you are shooting a good round if he did all the work from after the tee shot till you putt.

@saevel25 - You guys have always been eager to help me and I don't want to come off as argumentative - if it seems that way, I'll apologize in advance.

I think people sometimes rely too much on statistics when arguing their point. If you're speaking in terms of generalities, stats are great and hold much more weight than anecdotal instances. But they are far from being 100% accurate to describe what we're talking about - which are exceptions to the rule. Not aberrations or anomalies, but those of us who fall just outside the average.

Even though you've never seen me play, I've never seen a tour player play, so you may be right about me shooting single-digit with a tour player. I seriously doubt it, but I won't argue that point (just realize that I will rarely 2 putt from 31 ft. and I will jack 2 or 3 OB on all but my best rounds).

But to say that "Also, if you are that poor in hitting tee shots then you are probably a bad iron player" would be a tough thing for anyone to guess having never seen them play - especially after they made the statement to the contrary. Maybe you know something about my game I don't, or maybe I'm just delusional.

What I've seen from players at my level are that many are decent at some things, and poor at others. And then there are those who are at about the same level at everything. It isn't just one way.

[saevel25]

What I've seen from players at my level are that many are decent at some things, and poor at others. And then there are those who are at about the same level at everything. It isn't just one way.

No, there are individual circumstances and such. Having general statistics is good in terms that a very good percentage of people fall into that trend. It also helps realize just how important certain aspects of the game are. In the end you still have to look at your own game and find out what needs to be fixed first.

[JonMA1]

No, there are individual circumstances and such. Having general statistics is good in terms that a very good percentage of people fall into that trend. It also helps realize just how important certain aspects of the game are. In the end you still have to look at your own game and find out what needs to be fixed first.

Agreed. Most of us learning the game are likely prone to the same failures and flawed thinking. Our weaknesses become obvious if we choose to keep an open mind and check our egos. Information from more experienced players is invaluable.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

[mvmac]

I think people sometimes rely too much on statistics when arguing their point. If you're speaking in terms of generalities, stats are great and hold much more weight than anecdotal instances. But they are far from being 100% accurate to describe what we're talking about - which are exceptions to the rule. Not aberrations or anomalies, but those of us who fall just outside the average.

Even though you've never seen me play, I've never seen a tour player play, so you may be right about me shooting single-digit with a tour player. I seriously doubt it, but I won't argue that point (just realize that I will rarely 2 putt from 31 ft. and I will jack 2 or 3 OB on all but my best rounds).

But to say that "Also, if you are that poor in hitting tee shots then you are probably a bad iron player" would be a tough thing for anyone to guess having never seen them play - especially after they made the statement to the contrary. Maybe you know something about my game I don't, or maybe I'm just delusional.

And that's the reason I included the Keys/Handicap thread in my post. Point is, it's rare to see someone with a good handle on Keys 1-3, that throws away so many shots on the greens that they're a bogey golfer. My post was mostly concerned with countering the notion that you can have a decent iron game and because your putting sucks you're a bogey golfer.

But all this is

So let's get this thread back on track.

[DrvFrShow]

The thing is that even if a PGA pro hit the drives, left me hitting the second shot, I'd leave the PGA pro scrambling for par on most holes because only 36% of my shots would hit the green. The rest would be wide left or wide right, and then there are those that would be short because I'd hit them fat or shank them.

And there are a lot worse iron players than me out there.

I think we had a discussion once where you could have 43 putts in a round and if you did everything else well you could still break 80.

[Lihu]

I don't like the offsets. . . I am switching out my 4 and 5 irons for mp52.

[JonMA1]

I don't like the offsets. . . I am switching out my 4 and 5 irons for mp52.

Do you dislike the looks or do you find them difficult to hit?

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/84627/offset-in-irons-help-or-hindrance-to-your-game/36#post_1205830"] I don't like the offsets. . . I am switching out my 4 and 5 irons for mp52.[/QUOTE] Do you dislike the looks or do you find them difficult to hit?

They're different than the rest of my irons and I setup to hit them too high with too much spin.

[mvmac]

I don't like the offsets. . . I am switching out my 4 and 5 irons for mp52.

I grew up playing Eye 2's so I don't mind some offset, actually like it with my longer irons. Played a G30 4 iron (my 3 iron) this past year and a G25 3-iron before that.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/84627/offset-in-irons-help-or-hindrance-to-your-game/36#post_1205830"] I don't like the offsets. . . I am switching out my 4 and 5 irons for mp52.[/QUOTE] I grew up playing Eye 2's so I don't mind some offset, actually like it with my longer irons. Played a G30 4 iron (my 3 iron) this past year and a G25 3-iron before that.

The offset for sure helps me get the ball in the air with the longer clubs. . . That's kind of why I tried it a few rounds. They are much easier to hit than my MP-52 5 and 4 irons. The problem is the transition is almost like moving from an iron to a hybrid. Then I have another transition to the hybrids. So, maybe I just need to find a better match for the MP-52? I tried all i20, but I seem to get too much spin with the shorter clubs. Still experimenting. . .