Open Stance Okay or No way?

[sirhacksalot]

I have spent lots of money trying to get the modern golf swing.  For me at this moment I find that I am more consistent with my strike if I have an open stance.  Watching range video of myself I tend to work myself a lil open not realizing it resulting in some pretty good shots I tend to have LESS of an Out to IN swing with the open stance than i do closed .  But when I go through my set up again. I close my stance and can lose consistency.  

I am aware of the many classic players that had a open stance.  But most modern golf instruction seems to be against it. 

[vangator]

If you want to fade the ball, it is almost a necessity.

[SavvySwede]

11 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

I have spent lots of money trying to get the modern golf swing.  For me at this moment I find that I am more consistent with my strike if I have an open stance.  Watching range video of myself I tend to work myself a lil open not realizing it resulting in some pretty good shots I tend to have LESS of an Out to IN swing with the open stance than i do closed .  But when I go through my set up again. I close my stance and can lose consistency.  

I am aware of the many classic players that had a open stance.  But most modern golf instruction seems to be against it. 

Not sure were you got these ideas stuff from but there isn't a "modern golf swing", many different methods/styles of hitting the golf ball are floating around out there. Don't put yourself in a box. Focus on the fundamentals, steady head, weight forward, etc, etc.

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, sirhacksalot said:

 I tend to have LESS of an Out to IN swing with the open stance than i do closed .  But when I go through my set up again. I close my stance and can lose consistency.  

This can happen. Some people get an open stance and then they instinctively feel like they need to push the ball right. So an open stance can promote an outward path depending on the golfer. 
 

2 hours ago, sirhacksalot said:

I am aware of the many classic players that had a open stance.  But most modern golf instruction seems to be against it. 

Not sure where you got that idea from. Do most instructors teach a more neutral set up, sure. Again it depends on the golfer. There are some great golfers who played with a closed stance as well. 

[sirhacksalot]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

 

Not sure where you got that idea from. Do most instructors teach a more neutral set up, sure. Again it depends on the golfer. There are some great golfers who played with a closed stance as well. 

Absolutely.  The whole point of poll is to get opinion if its a legitimate swing practice not just a goto when you need a fade or a band aid. The classic golfers comment was that I didnt want this to be a yeah it's okay because Trevino and jack did it thread.  There are numerous examples of neutral and closed stance pros. I fall victim of being the tip of the day golfer. Thinking band aids and compensations are permanent fixes and then just as quickly they are gone. I once putted one handed for a few rounds after googling it and found enough cosigners stating it was a legitimate practice. After a round of two of struggling with longer puts I went back to two hand putting.

The lessons that I have taken would still work with an open stance but open was usually only brought up when discussing fade only. 

[Vinsk]

Stance open/closed I don't believe is a fundamental. I try not to place much emphasis on non-fundamnetal elements of the golf swing. It's hard enough as it is. If I can execute the 5 keys with an open or closed stance I hardly believe it would matter. 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, vangator said:

If you want to fade the ball, it is almost a necessity.

Not necessarily. I'm more likely to hit a little draw from an open stance, and a fade from a closed stance. My body tries to swing "toward" the target… left of a closed stance, right of an open stance. My brother-in-law is the same way. Hits some nice draws from a pretty open stance.

An open stance is often perfectly fine.

[vangator]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Not necessarily. I'm more likely to hit a little draw from an open stance, and a fade from a closed stance. My body tries to swing "toward" the target… left of a closed stance, right of an open stance. My brother-in-law is the same way. Hits some nice draws from a pretty open stance.

An open stance is often perfectly fine.

That's interesting.  It sounds like that is not the setup you use when you want to intentionally work the ball, just an outcome.  I believe I swing more along my alignment.  I swing in to out (sometimes too much and need to work on that), so fades can be tricky.

[Vinsk]

I never thought I'd be able to say I do something like Erik when it comes to golf, but I'm the same as him with open/closed stance. Well, I'm sure our shots are quite different but nonetheless I do tend to fade/draw from a closed/open set up.

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, saevel25 said:

This can happen. Some people get an open stance and then they instinctively feel like they need to push the ball right. So an open stance can promote an outward path depending on the golfer. 

 

10 hours ago, iacas said:

Not necessarily. I'm more likely to hit a little draw from an open stance, and a fade from a closed stance. My body tries to swing "toward" the target… left of a closed stance, right of an open stance. My brother-in-law is the same way. Hits some nice draws from a pretty open stance.

I've found the same thing in my swing as well.  I believe for many people, their body instinctively tries to swing the club toward the target.  

[sirhacksalot]

Would opening the stance effect lie angle delivered ?

[saevel25]

10 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

Would opening the stance effect lie angle delivered ?

Would an open stance change the position of the hands at impact? I would say no in most cases unless opening the stances messes with the golfer's spine angles at impact. If the spine changes to be more upright then it pulls the handle upward. I don't see a reason why an open stance would do that. 

I will say no on this one. 

[Mike Boatright]

I just had a 3 bucket range session today trying to ingrain a square stance and better turn. An open stance has lot of benefits it allows you to attack with your right arm better and creates a free flow non restricted follow though. The downsides are your hips and shoulders are lagging behind from the get go so you are restricted in your turn by 35%. I was doing this with my driver and hybrids and hitting long high shots that draw, but also some pushes and misses. I think overall it's harder on your body and causes on average a power loss.It's overall better to stand farther away from the ball and stay square to use your right arm better and make a full turn. You can hit cuts and draws with an open stance because your arms create the path. Just imagine your body as a swivel fishing thing it has 2 parts working together.. When you open up the bottom and top half are pointing left some degrees and then you load up early never achieving a full turn.

 

Caption below depicts a square stance that will enable you to make a full turn like Ricky here nothing wrong with that!

Edited March 16, 2016 by Mike Boatright

[saevel25]

4 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

The downsides are your hips and shoulders are lagging behind from the get go so you are restricted in your turn by 35%.

Where did you get this number from it sounds made up?

4 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

When you open up the bottom and top half are pointing left some degrees and then you load up early never achieving a full turn.

Actually I would say you can achieve equal amount of turn.

Lets say you can get at max 45 degrees difference between shoulder and hips. An open stance does not restrict this. It just shifts where the shoulders are pointing at the top of the swing. Really I see no issue with an open stance influencing how much you can turn.

4 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

Caption below depicts a square stance that will enable you to make a full turn like Ricky here nothing wrong with that!

Umm, if you want to show a square stance you might want to look at a DTL view. Yes, Ricky does stand more neutral with his golf set up.

 

[Mike Boatright]

 

7 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Where did you get this number from it sounds made up?

Actually I would say you can achieve equal amount of turn.

Lets say you can get at max 45 degrees difference between shoulder and hips. An open stance does not restrict this. It just shifts where the shoulders are pointing at the top of the swing. Really I see no issue with an open stance influencing how much you can turn.

Umm, if you want to show a square stance you might want to look at a DTL view. Yes, Ricky does stand more neutral with his golf set up.

 

You sure like to always disagree don't you? Anyway try this take a super open stance and try to make a turn the result will be you can't it's impossible. The more open your set up the less you can turn the more closed your set up '' to a degree the more you can turn''. If your open just a hair then your turn will be restricted by just a little and it goes from there depending on how open your hips and shoulders are. This is just one of those things that is it's not really debatable! For instance if someone told you that they can jump farther forward better when the took a step backwards first vs a a 2 step running start you would think they'e crazy it's essentially the same principle.

 

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Mike Boatright said:

You sure like to always disagree don't you? .

 

Only with stuff that sounds a bit off.

1 minute ago, Mike Boatright said:

If your open just a hair then your turn will be restricted by just a little and it goes from there depending on how open your hips and shoulders are. .

 

I contest it doesn't restrict your turn. If you are talking about a face on view. Then you can not accurately measure turn.

Here is the math.

Your shoulders are open -10 degrees (open is negative, square is zero, closed is positive). You turn them so they are now 80 degrees closed at the top of the swing. You still turned the shoulders 90 degrees.

80 - (-10) = 90 degrees of displacement.

In reality you might not see your shoulders turn to perpendicular to the target line on the face on view. They just started from a more open position Yet they turned the same distance.

The turn is not restrictive in the sense you are not actually changing the amount your body actually turns.

5 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

For instance if someone told you that they can jump farther forward better when the took a step backwards first vs a a 2 step running start you would think they'e crazy it's essentially the same principle.

 

You still didn't say how you got the 35%. Still sounds made up to me.

[Mike Boatright]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

Only with stuff that sounds a bit off.

I contest it doesn't restrict your turn. If you are talking about a face on view. Then you can not accurately measure turn.

Here is the math.

Your shoulders are open -10 degrees (open is negative, square is zero, closed is positive). You turn them so they are now 80 degrees closed at the top of the swing. You still turned the shoulders 90 degrees.

80 - (-10) = 90 degrees of displacement.

In reality you might not see your shoulders turn to perpendicular to the target line on the face on view. They just started from a more open position Yet they turned the same distance.

The turn is not restrictive in the sense you are not actually changing the amount your body actually turns.

You still didn't say how you got the 35%. Still sounds made up to me.

It's just an estimate 35% 15 % etc.. A hyper flexible person may get to 90 degrees yes or 110 degrees but if they were square the would turn more. Again this is just a fact it has to do with the knees hips and shoulders they way there designed. A guy like bubba lifts his right foot and makes a big turn many adaptations and his open stance helps him fire through the ball better it's what an open stance does.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, Mike Boatright said:

Again this is just a fact it has to do with the knees hips and shoulders they way there designed. A guy like bubba lifts his right foot and makes a big turn many adaptations and his open stance helps him fire through the ball better it's what an open stance does.

You haven't shown any facts that say an open stance actually restricts how the body turns. 

So what anatomically is happening with an open stance that is causing it to hinder the turn? You are the one who is saying it goes counter to how the hips and shoulders are designed?