What is the most effective way to hit a fade with your irons or woods?

[Mike Boatright]

When I was getting better a few years back I Incorporated a cut shot into my game that was usually a high balloon shot 150 yards vs the 182 perfect shots I got right say 2 out of 10 tries with my 5 iron just abysmal.. Anyway Lately I have found simply opening the club-face marginally with my woods or irons and making a inside approach normal swing with a neutral grip and sawn of release produces a baby push fade that's more reliable but tends to release.. So What more effective in terms of spin control because as you know an outside approach to the ball on say a 10 yard pitch will cut land soft and cradle nicely and the same goes for a 160 yard shot. If the cut is superior any tips on how to do this better more often?

[mvmac]

1 hour ago, Mike Boatright said:

So What more effective in terms of spin control because as you know an outside approach to the ball on say a 10 yard pitch will cut land soft and cradle nicely and the same goes for a 160 yard shot. If the cut is superior any tips on how to do this better more often?

Depends on what your "stock" swing direction is. Let's say it's a couple degree out, then in order to hit a cut you would just aim your body left, face a little left and make your stock swing.

The whole idea that fades provide better control into the greens is an old golf myth. A cut is not superior in terms of keeping the ball on the green. With a draw the face will be a little right of the target and the AoA is typically more shallow compared to a cut, ball is going to launch high and land soft.

[Mike Boatright]

21 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Depends on what your "stock" swing direction is. Let's say it's a couple degree out, then in order to hit a cut you would just aim your body left, face a little left and make your stock swing.

The whole idea that fades provide better control into the greens is an old golf myth. A cut is not superior in terms of keeping the ball on the green. With a draw the face will be a little right of the target and the AoA is typically more shallow compared to a cut, ball is going to launch high and land soft.

Oh I see kinda of a high draw the face is open like \ at impact the ball goes high to the right and turns back vs a face that's closed at impact and hits the back of the ball causing a low draw. I do however believe that a cut will probably have more effective increased loft and therefore will land softer and probably wont travel as far.

[David in FL]

Give them to the average, amateur golfer....  

[saevel25]

5 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

Oh I see kinda of a high draw the face is open like \ at impact the ball goes high to the right and turns back vs a face that's closed at impact and hits the back of the ball causing a low draw. I do however believe that a cut will probably have more effective increased loft and therefore will land softer and probably wont travel as far.

For a cut to go higher it would need to be a push cut. That is not a functional shot because it is moving away from your target line. 

In a functional shot the fade starts lower than a draw and typically will fly lower. 

[JonMA1]

11 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

For a cut to go higher it would need to be a push cut. That is not a functional shot because it is moving away from your target line. 

Could you not align your body way left and hit a push cut? Maybe there isn't a situation that would ever call for this???? 

Any time I've had to hit a slice around a tree and actually pulled it off, it was how you described it, with a relatively low flight. And all I was trying for was to get it back onto the fairway with less concern about distance. Don't remember ever trying this shot to a green.

[saevel25]

A push cut is harder to control the amount of curve from the target line. The outside in helps control the cut because you can just pull it slightly more to compensate for extra cut. Your can't push the ball more to compensate for more cut or it just starts too far right. 

[Golfingdad]

54 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

... a push cut. That is not a functional shot because it is moving away from your target line.

That's not accurate.  See Mikes original post, and remember, Jack Nicklaus (among others) played a push cut. :)

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Could you not align your body way left and hit a push cut? Maybe there isn't a situation that would ever call for this???? 

Yeah that's what I was describing with my post, like Bubba Watson (driver), Nicklaus, Couples, Ryan Moore. You are still swinging "out" relative to your body lines with the ball starting right of your body lines but left of the target.

9 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

I do however believe that a cut will probably have more effective increased loft and therefore will land softer and probably wont travel as far.

Depends on the cut. There are good players that hit "bullet fades" with the face a little left with a more downward angle of attack, again this will launch the ball lower compared to a push draw.

[dchoye]

11 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

When I was getting better a few years back I Incorporated a cut shot into my game that was usually a high balloon shot 150 yards vs the 182 perfect shots I got right say 2 out of 10 tries with my 5 iron just abysmal.. Anyway Lately I have found simply opening the club-face marginally with my woods or irons and making a inside approach normal swing with a neutral grip and sawn of release produces a baby push fade that's more reliable but tends to release.. So What more effective in terms of spin control because as you know an outside approach to the ball on say a 10 yard pitch will cut land soft and cradle nicely and the same goes for a 160 yard shot. If the cut is superior any tips on how to do this better more often?

Never really thought about like that when I playing. Interesting diagram.  Where did you find that ?

I been playing a draw and this seem to fit my pattern striking the ball at 4 o'clock 

Whenever I try to move the ball the other way it tend to turn to slice and it fits that strike with open clubface at 4 o'clock 

I do remember that fade/cuts feel very different. Almost like an strike at 3 o'clock or even 2 o'clock with ? With different sequencing 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, saevel25 said:

For a cut to go higher it would need to be a push cut. That is not a functional shot because it is moving away from your target line. 

As others said, push-fades are fine. That's the fade I play.

3 hours ago, dchoye said:

Never really thought about like that when I playing. Interesting diagram.  Where did you find that ?

It's my diagram. I made it. It was to point out how "strike the ball at 4:00" or "strike the inside quadrant of the golf ball" is 100% a matter of face angle and has nothing to do with the path. While it may be a good visual for someone, as "path is instinctual," it's not at all accurate of what's going on.

3 hours ago, dchoye said:

I been playing a draw and this seem to fit my pattern striking the ball at 4 o'clock 

Whenever I try to move the ball the other way it tend to turn to slice and it fits that strike with open clubface at 4 o'clock.

I don't know that you're reading the diagram properly.

See the text note about a proper push-draw being struck with a right-pointing face at 3:05 to 3:10.

[Mike Boatright]

13 hours ago, dchoye said:

Never really thought about like that when I playing. Interesting diagram.  Where did you find that ?

I been playing a draw and this seem to fit my pattern striking the ball at 4 o'clock 

Whenever I try to move the ball the other way it tend to turn to slice and it fits that strike with open clubface at 4 o'clock 

I do remember that fade/cuts feel very different. Almost like an strike at 3 o'clock or even 2 o'clock with ? With different sequencing 

I got this from google images unknown location.  I think with say a 5 iron the face will have more loft in an outside approach to the ball if it's open at impact then it cuts goes left to right it's not a push it's a cut similar to say a flop shot just in super high speed. A push is an approach to far from the inside you leave the face wide open and hit goes high and to the right maybe the same loft as a cut but off line. The bullet fade is a hard shot to hit your path is level to outside in and very shallow but the face is a hair open causing that shooter.

I don't it's all that complicated to see what the face does I just wan't to learn how to do it better.

[saevel25]

3 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

I think with say a 5 iron the face will have more loft in an outside approach to the ball if it's open at impact then it cuts goes left to right it's not a push it's a cut similar to say a flop shot just in super high speed.

If you are comparing a push draw to a push cut then yes the push cut will have more height. Maybe a degree or two more loft at most. It's not significantly more.

It takes more face opening to add loft to a lower lofted club than it does a higher lofted club.

3 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

A push is an approach to far from the inside you leave the face wide open and hit goes high and to the right maybe the same loft as a cut but off line.

A push is any ball that starts right and travels on the same path it starts on. For some a slight push is a good miss shot, especially if you hit a push draw.

3 hours ago, Mike Boatright said:

I don't it's all that complicated to see what the face does I just wan't to learn how to do it better.

Learn to hit the ball from the inside and then just adjust your clubface angle so you are hitting fades instead of draws. It's not overly complicated. The tough part is getting yourself to swing outward instead of inward.