Lightning in a bottle, Who is the Worst Player to Have Won a Major

[natureboy]

8 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

It wasn't really until the 1960s when top American pros even played the Open Championship... because of your point, travel was expensive.

Not quite. There was a flow and ebb.

After Ouimet's surprise win of the U.S. Open in '13, American players rated their chances against the overseas pros better and there was a run of American winners in the 20's and early 30's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Open_Championship_champions).

Then The Great Depression intervened and I expect the potential prestige was not worth the relatively small purse plus extra risk from travelling by boat during the war. In '46 Snead won, but lost money on the trip.

In the 50's the purse was still small, but also the R&A (possibly in response to the Bobby Locke's debacle with the PGA on his swing through the U.S.) started scheduling the event opposite the PGA Championship. Given the relative size of the purses very few American golfers opted for The Open Championship other than Hogan who wanted to add the final Major and / or repeat what Bobby Jones had done. By Palmer's time transatlantic jet travel made it easier to do both despite being scheduled within 12 days of each other. IMO Palmer's popularity on his trips helped pave the way for a more travel-friendly schedule for all 4 Majors.

 

3 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

I don't think that "worst" is a great adjective here. These "lightning in a bottle" major champions, were good players, if they weren't they wouldn't have been on the tour... 

I agree.

3 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Here's another one for you, Wayne Grady, he won the 1990 PGA Championship at Shoal Creek, then just disappeared off the face of the earth.

Not quite. His Majors results may be a bit more consistent than Micheel and he had another PGA win and a Euro Tour win.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Grady

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Micheel

[iacas]

20 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

@iacas Had Moody as number one back in this article from 2005.
http://thesandtrap.com/b/trap_five/worst_players_to_have_won_a_major

I'm curious Erik, would you put Micheel at the top of the list now that enough time has passed and his career is at a close?

I don't know. Off the cuff, probably not, because of depth of field and other things like that. Though Micheel hasn't done much else either, so… after 10 seconds more thought, I don't have enough info to give a really valid description.

8 hours ago, natureboy said:

Not quite. There was a flow and ebb.

Not quite. More like a trickle. Calling it a "flow" is generous. Hogan went once. Snead didn't make a habit of going at all. Etc.

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Not quite. More like a trickle. Calling it a "flow" is generous. Hogan went once. Snead didn't make a habit of going at all. Etc.

You're ignoring the 20's and early 30's for some reason? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Open_Championship_champions.

But it was likely just a few top American's who went rather than the full field of ranked players like today due to the relatively higher travel costs. Sarazen and Hagen made the trip regularly. There were probably a good number who went over a couple of times like Bobby Jones, but without as much success. Here's a link that includes names of some of the non-winner American competitors who were in Open Championship fields at that time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryder_Cup. Quite a few of the ones mentioned in the early 'Ryder Cup' groupings were regular competitors. I'm sure there were others who went over on their own - especially wealthy skilled amateurs.

Edited March 20, 2016 by natureboy

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, natureboy said:

You're ignoring the 20's and early 30's for some reason?

No.

[Pendragon]

Lou Graham.

[Broke100Once]

Lou Graham?  Not even close.  Won six tournaments, came close in a couple of other majors.

[Pendragon]

12 hours ago, Broke100Once said:

Lou Graham?  Not even close.  Won six tournaments, came close in a couple of other majors.

You're probably right...upon further review, how about Rich Beem or Jack Fleck? Isn't this sort of a meaningless question anyway? 

Anybody who wins a major, regardless of his overall record, has achieved something pretty special. Shouldn't we be celebrating their accomplishments rather than trying to single out one or two whose accomplishment in a major might have been more of a surprise than it was for others?  

[natureboy]

15 hours ago, natureboy said:

But it was likely just a few top American's who went rather than the full field of ranked players like today due to the relatively higher travel costs. Sarazen and Hagen made the trip regularly. There were probably a good number who went over a couple of times like Bobby Jones, but without as much success. Here's a link that includes names of some of the non-winner American competitors who were in Open Championship fields at that time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryder_Cup. Quite a few of the ones mentioned in the early 'Ryder Cup' groupings were regular competitors. I'm sure there were others who went over on their own - especially wealthy skilled amateurs.

From 196 to 1914 I see evidence for maybe ~ 2-5 Americans players in the field (~ average of 3). Info on amateur participants is very scanty, but there were likely a regular few along with the more well-known and documented pros.

From 1920 to 1937 there was at least one American in the field ranging from 2-12 (~ average of 6). The Ryder Cup and pre-Ryder junkets definitely upped the average number of participants, but there is evidence for more participation than pre-WWI in the non-Ryder years as well.

From 1921 to 1933 Americans won 11 out of 13 Open Championships. The first of these was Jock Hutchison who was a naturalized American, having come over in the wave of pro emigration from Scotland in the early 1900's as golf was starting to take off in the U.S. (like Bobby Cruickshank & Tommy Armour). The following year, 'The Haig' was the first U.S. born player to take The Open Championship. In 1926 and 1929, 7 out of the top 10 were Americans. Snead played in both '37 and '46 (won).

Post WWII the Ryder Cup schedule shifted to the fall and U.S. player participation dropped off, particularly as it was scheduled close to / opposite the PGA Championship. U.S. amateurs like Frank Stranahan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Stranahan) and the occasional pro represented a reduced ~ average of 3 per year. In 2015 there were 53 American players in the field.

[saevel25]

I'll say Angel Cabrera. I know he's won two Majors. It just seems like he's done nothing else on any of the big tours. 

3 PGA Tour wins, 2 of which are majors
5 European Tour wins

 

[natureboy]

11 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I'll say Angel Cabrera. I know he's won two Majors. It just seems like he's done nothing else on any of the big tours. 

3 PGA Tour wins, 2 of which are majors
5 European Tour wins

But he had a big base of success in South / Latin America, probably 2nd to only Roberto Di Vicenzo in Argentine golf. Plus solid showings (though sporadic consistency) in multiple Majors.

Edited March 20, 2016 by natureboy

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, natureboy said:

But he had a big base of success in South / Latin America, probably 2nd to only Roberto Di Vicenzo in Argentine golf. Plus solid showings (though sporadic consistency) in multiple Majors.

That isn't overly impressive. That's like saying if one of the PGA Tour players dominated a mini-tour in one of the US States, if a state had it's own Mini-Tour.

[natureboy]

9 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

That isn't overly impressive. That's like saying if one of the PGA Tour players dominated a mini-tour in one of the US States, if a state had it's own Mini-Tour.

To me, any win on any fairly established pro circuit is impressive. But Latin American circuit wins are definitely not at the same level as PGA Tour, Euro Tour, or Web.com. You are probably also under-rating the history / depth of Argentine golf tradition. Even if you rate one of Angel Cabrera's wins at 30% of a PGA tour win, that's 10 equivalent PGA wins. Plus he's also won on Euro Tour and PGA tour. He's not an 'out of the blue' success.

 

@Wally Fairway I thought of a better name for the thread: 'Bolt from the blue' - Most Surprising / Unexpected Major Winners.

Edited March 20, 2016 by natureboy

[Wally Fairway]

7 hours ago, natureboy said:

To me, any win on any fairly established pro circuit is impressive. But Latin American circuit wins are definitely not at the same level as PGA Tour, Euro Tour, or Web.com. You are probably also under-rating the history / depth of Argentine golf tradition. Even if you rate one of Angel Cabrera's wins at 30% of a PGA tour win, that's 10 equivalent PGA wins. Plus he's also won on Euro Tour and PGA tour. He's not an 'out of the blue' success.

 

@Wally Fairway I thought of a better name for the thread: 'Bolt from the blue' - Most Surprising / Unexpected Major Winners.

the thread took and unexpected turn - I had it titled lightning in a bottle, and although my reference to Ben Curtis did go into his career, it was mainly about who was the least likely at the time to be suspected to win their major.
Based on how I envisioned the thread, I think Curtis is a prime candidate. Tour rookie, not top 10's leading into it, and he beat the top names who finished in the top 10. He was a kid at the time trying to grind out his card for the next year and BOOM major champion. Congrats to him.

The whole worst player to win a major is, in my mind, a somewhat related but different discussion. Then again the thread has had a much longer life than if it was narrower.

[onthehunt526]

8 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

the thread took and unexpected turn - I had it titled lightning in a bottle, and although my reference to Ben Curtis did go into his career, it was mainly about who was the least likely at the time to be suspected to win their major.
Based on how I envisioned the thread, I think Curtis is a prime candidate. Tour rookie, not top 10's leading into it, and he beat the top names who finished in the top 10. He was a kid at the time trying to grind out his card for the next year and BOOM major champion. Congrats to him.

The whole worst player to win a major is, in my mind, a somewhat related but different discussion. Then again the thread has had a much longer life than if it was narrower.

It is, a different discussion, If it was just lightning in the bottle, you'd have Ben Curtis, Steve Jones, Rich Beem (he won at The International his prior start but still), Shaun Micheel, and my favorite Orville Moody...

Women, Birdie Kim and Hilary Lunke come to mind...

[mvmac]

In recent history I'd have to say Shaun Micheel. Ben Curtis has won 4 times and Todd Hamilton has two wins with a solid career (11 wins) on the Japan Tour.

[onthehunt526]

3 minutes ago, mvmac said:

In recent history I'd have to say Shaun Micheel. Ben Curtis has won 4 times and Todd Hamilton has two wins with a solid career (11 wins) on the Japan Tour.

I know, I said Orville Moody before, but "Sarge" also played in arguably the most competitive era in our game... 

[mvmac]

1 minute ago, onthehunt526 said:

I know, I said Orville Moody before, but "Sarge" also played in arguably the most competitive era in our game...

Not to turn this into a strength of field thread but I'd say now is very, very competitive, more so than when Moody played.

[onthehunt526]

 

39 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Not to turn this into a strength of field thread but I'd say now is very, very competitive, more so than when Moody played.

True... very true... Probably of our generation (1996-present) you'd have to say Shaun Micheel as we've said.

Of the previous generation (1976-1995), How about Bill Rogers. Remember the Original Tight Lies infomercials? He and Hank Haney did the original one. Bill Rogers, who to his credit was a good player, caught "Lightning In The Bottle" in the 1981 Open Championship at Sandwich (Royal St. George's). He had some decent finishes in other majors, however?

There were a few in the generation before, but Orville Moody, takes the cake.