The R&A Resists Embedded Ball Through the Green

[Rulesman]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

They're facts. I suspect I have them right,

But even if it were just my opinion, that's almost the entire point of a discussion forum.

I suspect you have them wrong as my perception and information from over here is different.

I explained about the tours.

However, suspicions are not complete knowledge. We are only discussing opinions

 

 

 

[iacas]

41 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

I suspect you have them wrong as my perception and information from over here is different.

I don't think so. I've played courses in the UK. Didn't see a bunch of stones in any of them.

44 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

I explained about the tours.

However, suspicions are not complete knowledge. We are only discussing opinions

No, I'm discussing opinions, or trying to. You… not so much.

You didn't "explain about the tours." You explained almost nothing. Most major tours allow for relief for an embedded ball through the green. It supports my opinion (and the opinion of the USGA, from all I've heard) that this should be the Rule and not just a Local Rule.

And, there are many things I'm comfortable saying I "know" here too.

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So… why not make relief for an embedded ball through the green the Rule, with restricting it to only "closely mown areas" the Local Rule for the seemingly very small subset of courses or organizations that want to implement that?

[Golfingdad]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

I'm not saying that I know it. I'm saying it seems quite likely true. Virtually every competition in which I've played - or heard about in regards to this rule - employs the Local Rule.

 

[ColinL]

Just a couple of observations.  There are over 3000 golf courses in the UK.  Iacas has played some of them and found no stones in any bunkers.  I have played some of them and encountered stones in most of the bunkers.  In terms of sound argument neither his unquantified experience nor mine has any validity.

Where there have been stones in bunkers and the LR in place, I’ve never as a player or referee found any difficulty in distinguishing  stones from grains of sand!

 

 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, ColinL said:

Just a couple of observations.  There are over 3000 golf courses in the UK.  Iacas has played some of them and found no stones in any bunkers.  I have played some of them and encountered stones in most of the bunkers.  In terms of sound argument neither his unquantified experience nor mine has any validity.

They have some validity. Just not a bunch. Mine or yours.

This thread topic is really about embedded ball rule. I really don't care about stones in bunkers, and think you'd have a tougher time convincing people of making the Local Rule the actual Rule for those… I think it's a much easier call with embedded ball through the green.