Does mental game affect your swing?

[Goubli]

I think you are missing the aspect that you probably have a strong mental game. 

Although you shouldn't try to fix your swing on the course, you seem to focus on the swing so much you block out negative thoughts. 

Dont fool yourself into thinking that if you were betting against someone for enough $ per hole that you would " motor through the course".   Having a strong mental game entails focusing on the present, trusting/being confident and decisive in your shot choices, forgetting the bad/mistakes and remaining loose on the course. 

For the recreational player who has "patient" playing partners perhaps a strong mental game is not as obvious as it is to those in a more intense competitive round.  

As for myself, specifically, changing my mental outlook to only thinking of the target right before I make my swing has shaved 3-6 strokes off my rounds this year. Whatever you "think" is your mental game. 

Do an experiment for yourself- next time you go play change your preshot routine and don't consider your mechanics. Instead look at the areas you want to avoid. Once over your ball tell yourself "anywhere but the water/bunker/short/long/left/right etc". Let me know if thinking those thoughts changes how you play. 

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Goubli said:

Do an experiment for yourself- next time you go play change your preshot routine and don't consider your mechanics. Instead look at the areas you want to avoid. Once over your ball tell yourself "anywhere but the water/bunker/short/long/left/right etc". Let me know if thinking those thoughts changes how you play. 

This is one of the reasons why the mental game is an SV① level skill in the estimation of Dave and I. It's not a difficult skill to pick up and learn. Anyone can improve at the "mental game" pretty quickly. Aim small, miss small. Look at where you want to hit the ball, not where the trouble is. Have a pre-shot routine and stick to it. There, that's, what, 2/3 of the advice you'll find in most mental game books?

Also, the whole thing about Separation Values that some people seem to be forgetting, is this: if your mental game is TERRIBLE, for you, it's a glaring weakness. You should give it some more attention in the short term to fix it up. But if you're a bogey golfer, your driving and approach shots are also terrible, so don't forget that, either.

[chspeed]

3 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

PLUS my mental game is going to be pretty bangin' if I get to use Tiger's swing. 

OMG, how could someone not jump on this? OK, I will.

I think with Tiger's swing, your bangin' game would be pretty mental too.

Edited March 24, 2016 by chspeed

[Lihu]

32 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

For me it does yes. Frustration prevents me from playing my best and very often triggers regression during the course of a round. Right now, I'm working on changing my mental approach in that I'm specifically trying to be more process oriented and observational about what I'm feeling as opposed to being results oriented and playing with emotion. 

At this point I'm trying to train my mind to not care at all what the ball does once I hit it. Instead, I'm going to be observational as to what I'm feeling so hopefully my pattern can tighten. I think I already have the mechanics to shoot lower than I am, so I think tightening my mental approach can only help things. It's not something I've ever really focused on before, and it's very possible that this type of work is "a priority piece" or me in conjunction with whatever mechanical changes I'm working on as well. 

Mental game after all is an SV skill, even if it's only an SV1 skill. Don't ignore it, it can save you strokes... and dare I say, help in enjoying the game more. Golf is frustrating at every single level, so just the right mindset given your current abilities is key IMO. 

This process oriented approach is what I really enjoy about this site and the Simple Keys approach to golf. I've never really had any lengthy experience with any other method, but this one works for me.

As to the emotion that comes with bad shots or swings. That might stem from the fact that you have certain expectations you think you need to uphold? You are a real 8.9HC (as opposed to one freak good round), so maybe you expect more of yourself and that leads to apprehension?

If I toe a drive, it goes far left and short. I can see the mark on the driver curving off to the side of the driver. My first thought is swing flaw, must have been standing too far back or coming OTT or something. . .

I also have nothing to prove on the course. I've played with people who think I drive 250-300 yards on average one day (not really, just my 258 median drive), then see me shank all my drives on another day. They tell me to go back to my "old club" or whatnot. I just tell them I'm making swing changes. Not a big deal.

Going out without any expectations on the course and process oriented practice seem to work for me. IDK, if when I am an actual single digit player if this attitude will continue or not, seems like it though. Bad shots happen to everyone. I've seen plus handicaps hit bad shots then hit a pro level shot the next one.

 

16 minutes ago, Goubli said:

I think you are missing the aspect that you probably have a strong mental game. 

Although you shouldn't try to fix your swing on the course, you seem to focus on the swing so much you block out negative thoughts. 

Dont fool yourself into thinking that if you were betting against someone for enough $ per hole that you would " motor through the course".   Having a strong mental game entails focusing on the present, trusting/being confident and decisive in your shot choices, forgetting the bad/mistakes and remaining loose on the course. 

For the recreational player who has "patient" playing partners perhaps a strong mental game is not as obvious as it is to those in a more intense competitive round.  

As for myself, specifically, changing my mental outlook to only thinking of the target right before I make my swing has shaved 3-6 strokes off my rounds this year. Whatever you "think" is your mental game. 

Do an experiment for yourself- next time you go play change your preshot routine and don't consider your mechanics. Instead look at the areas you want to avoid. Once over your ball tell yourself "anywhere but the water/bunker/short/long/left/right etc". Let me know if thinking those thoughts changes how you play. 

I've never bet more than $20 a round anyway, but I suppose at the right level I'd find my breaking point. However, 9-12 handicaps typically don't play for more than a couple $ a skin. It's usually the scratch golfers that play for $10 to $20 skins. That's because when they play bad, they still shoot 3 over or something like that. When we play bad, we could easily lose 10 skins or something like that. So, of course I could break down at some point, but not under $20. It's for fun anyway.

However, my son is the perfect example of someone who doesn't buckle under pressure. His swing is pretty nice and the same under pressure or not. However, he's shot par on 18 a few times and also 49 on 9, and his score could be pretty much anything in between. You end up in crappy situations for whatever reason. Good swing or not, good mental state or not.

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

This is one of the reasons why the mental game is an SV① level skill in the estimation of Dave and I. It's not a difficult skill to pick up and learn. Anyone can improve at the "mental game" pretty quickly. Aim small, miss small. Look at where you want to hit the ball, not where the trouble is. Have a pre-shot routine and stick to it. There, that's, what, 2/3 of the advice you'll find in most mental game books?

Also, the whole thing about Separation Values that some people seem to be forgetting, is this: if your mental game is TERRIBLE, for you, it's a glaring weakness. You should give it some more attention in the short term to fix it up. But if you're a bogey golfer, your driving and approach shots are also terrible, so don't forget that, either.

Gee, this sounds familiar, I think I read this somewhere?

[Jakester23]

45 minutes ago, Lihu said:

17 minutes ago, Goubli said:

 

 

If you look at my game golf stats compared to the grouping of scores below mine. I have to hit 10% more GIR, average .3 less putts and hit a 1 or 2 more fairways. To do I went and got fit for and edel putter and continue to get lessons from evolvr. That's pretty much sums up the mental game for me. As my full swing has gotten better my scores have went down.

[Ernest Jones]

15 minutes ago, chspeed said:

OMG, how could someone not jump on this? OK, I will.

I think with Tiger's swing, your bangin' game would be pretty mental too.

lol

The GOAT and the goat!

[Goubli]

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

But if you're a bogey golfer, your driving and approach shots are also terrible, so don't forget that, either.

If you're a bogey golfer most parts of your game are terrible. My major flaw is inability to overcome my OTT muscle memory. Too many years of competitive tennis has likely made it nearly impossible to ever learn and feel natural coming from the inside. I just don't have enough time to practice and am getting too old. Everytime I have to take a break from playing/hitting my old muscle memory is back to remind me. 

 

[Big Lex]

4 hours ago, Lihu said:

Here's what I am thinking looking down an "intimidating" shot. "As I stand over a hilltop looking down on a narrow landing with over 200 yards of bush and natural vegetation between me and the narrow landing. I make my practice swing. Did I finish correctly? Did I get my centered turn? Did my weight shift enough? Is my lead wrist palmered? Is my follow through indicating enough hip turn? No? Do it again. Setup the shot. Ball positioned correctly for the club in hand? Shift. Shift. Shift until everything is in place. Do a little takeaway, then let down, address the ball. Make swing." Basically, this is what I do on every swing, and takes like 10-12 seconds.

I used to do something like that. Have a checklist of ideas, make practice swings, and not make the real swing until everything went well. I don't think it works for me.

What I do is try to simplify. I do make a practice swing, but all I concentrate on is the feel. I try to conjure up the feeling of a really good, rhythmic swing, proper balance, etc. I try to think only about the feel and not to think in words. Then I try make a practice swing, and put the same swing on the ball. If I think about something specific, it will usually be grip pressure, or a feeling of relaxed arms or something like that.

When I'm practicing, whether on the range or just swinging in my yard, I think of all of those mechanical details and work on them. But if I try to key on some specific mechanical thing when I'm playing, I get worse results than when I think about almost nothing.

[Jakester23]

12 minutes ago, Goubli said:

If you're a bogey golfer most parts of your game are terrible. My major flaw is inability to overcome my OTT muscle memory. Too many years of competitive tennis has likely made it nearly impossible to ever learn and feel natural coming from the inside. I just don't have enough time to practice and am getting too old. Everytime I have to take a break from playing/hitting my old muscle memory is back to remind me. 

 

Then just play a pull fade or pull draw.

[JetFan1983]

9 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 

If I toe a drive, it goes far left and short. I can see the mark on the driver curving off to the side of the driver. My first thought is swing flaw, must have been standing too far back or coming OTT or something. . .

Right, yea, and in my case, when I'm on the course, that probably shouldn't be my first thought even though that's probably true. Yes, it is the swing flaw, but for me -- and I think this is true of anyone who is already getting good golf instruction -- I've proven I can make two different golf swings. I have my shitty swing that I don't want to make, and I have the one I've proven I can make on the range or during a lesson because I've seen the picture change on film. So in my case, I want to maximize the amount of times I can make that changed picture swing, and in a sort of generalized way of saying it, I think I can produce it more often with a mindset that isn't predicated upon expectations, emotional reactions to bad shots, getting down on oneself, etc. I want to focus my mental energy elsewhere, or at least, not waste it on stuff like that because in my case, I don't think it helps. 

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

If your mental game is TERRIBLE, for you, it's a glaring weakness. You should give it some more attention in the short term to fix it up. But if you're a bogey golfer, your driving and approach shots are also terrible, so don't forget that, either.

Yea, nails it. 

5 minutes ago, Jakester23 said:

 

If you look at my game golf stats compared to the grouping of scores below mine. I have to hit 10% more GIR, average .3 less putts and hit a 1 or 2 more fairways. To do I went and got fit for and edel putter and continue to get lessons from evolvr. That's pretty much sums up the mental game for me. As my full swing has gotten better my scores have went down.

Right, and that I think will almost always be the reason we improve: we get the right information, we learn how to apply it, and then over time we hit better shots and shoot lower scores. 

Sometimes though, the "learning how to apply it" aspect of the process can require improving the way the golfer thinks. So in my case, I think thinking a bit differently in my approach can facilitate a more efficient application of the change. 

Still, there's no doubt that each person is different, and what works for one person might be a disaster for someone else. But I think if a person finds out what does works best for them, then they've more or less achieved the SV1 skill of the mental game. 

[Jakester23]

16 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

Right, yea, and in my case, when I'm on the course, that probably shouldn't be my first thought even though that's probably true. Yes, it is the swing flaw, but for me -- and I think this is true of anyone who is already getting good golf instruction -- I've proven I can make two different golf swings. I have my shitty swing that I don't want to make, and I have the one I've proven I can make on the range or during a lesson because I've seen the picture change on film. So in my case, I want to maximize the amount of times I can make that changed picture swing, and in a sort of generalized way of saying it, I think I can produce it more often with a mindset that isn't predicated upon expectations, emotional reactions to bad shots, getting down on oneself, etc. I want to focus my mental energy elsewhere, or at least, not waste it on stuff like that because in my case, I don't think it helps. 

Yea, nails it. 

Right, and that I think will almost always be the reason we improve: we get the right information, we learn how to apply it, and then over time we hit better shots and shoot lower scores. 

Sometimes though, the "learning how to apply it" aspect of the process can require improving the way the golfer thinks. So in my case, I think thinking a bit differently in my approach can facilitate a more efficient application of the change. 

Still, there's no doubt that each person is different, and what works for one person might be a disaster for someone else. But I think if a person finds out what does works best for them, then they've more or less achieved the SV1 skill of the mental game. 

I agree that we are all different. I don't even try to "apply" it on the course. All my work is done at home or on the range. When I'm playing it's only preshot routine, hit the shot, rinse repeat. I don't enjoy myself if I get to caught up in thinking about my game. To me the actual playing is my reward for my hard work at my job. It also validates my practice time.

[JetFan1983]

Just now, Jakester23 said:

I agree that we are all different. I don't even try to "apply" it on the course. All my work is done at home or on the range. When I'm playing it's only preshot routine, hit the shot, rinse repeat. I don't enjoy myself if I get to caught up in thinking about my game. To me the actual playing is my reward for my hard work at my job. It also validates my practice time.

Plus, I know you've improved a lot over the past couple seasons, so whatever you're doing, keep doing it 

 

[Ernest Jones]

15 minutes ago, Jakester23 said:

I agree that we are all different. I don't even try to "apply" it on the course. All my work is done at home or on the range. When I'm playing it's only preshot routine, hit the shot, rinse repeat. I don't enjoy myself if I get to caught up in thinking about my game. To me the actual playing is my reward for my hard work at my job. It also validates my practice time.

2

Spot on, especially the bolded.

[Jakester23]

33 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

 

Thanks. I've had a lot of help from people much smarter than me. It's not all good though I think I'm driving @cipher crazy.

[Fourputt]

5 hours ago, Lihu said:

There were a couple threads where I found myself at odds with other posters, and this topic below would be off topic.

So, please explain why you think mental game affects your swing, and describe a specific situation where it does.

Mental game doesn't affect my full swing, primarily because I use 5SK. As crappy as my swing is, I can fix specific mechanical parts like a mechanic fixing a car using 5SK as a guide. I watch video, note the faults and fix the glaring one(s) at the range or wherever "5 minutes a day". I attempt to apply them on the course. It's very much a mechanical process. Hence, not dependent upon my mood or mental game.

Here's what I am thinking looking down an "intimidating" shot. "As I stand over a hilltop looking down on a narrow landing with over 200 yards of bush and natural vegetation between me and the narrow landing. I make my practice swing. Did I finish correctly? Did I get my centered turn? Did my weight shift enough? Is my lead wrist palmered? Is my follow through indicating enough hip turn? No? Do it again. Setup the shot. Ball positioned correctly for the club in hand? Shift. Shift. Shift until everything is in place. Do a little takeaway, then let down, address the ball. Make swing." Basically, this is what I do on every swing, and takes like 10-12 seconds.

Is there anywhere in that entire sequence that I am affected by mental game? Not really. I'm so busy self checking that I got the 5 simple keys to the best of my ability, I don't have time to think about how I'm going to mishit.

Even though I would self rate my on course swing at 1.8 keys which is not that good a swing, my swing is very much mechanical. Any failure, is a mechanics failure, not a mental one.

What I think is a reasonable swing is one that is greater than roughly 1.5 keys. That's enough to get around the course and enjoy your game. If it is built mechanically, you should be scoring much better than bogey on average.

So, if you are still not convinced that a swing should not be dependent upon mental game, please explain the specifics.

If you aren't in the right frame of mind you will never be able to glue all of those separate mechanical pieces together into a cohesive swing.  Just the fact that you are analyzing the parts is a mental exercise.  I don't see how you can call it anything else.  

Yogi Berra said (of baseball, but it apples equally to golf) "90 percent of this game is half mental".  No truer words were ever spoken.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Big Lex said:

I used to do something like that. Have a checklist of ideas, make practice swings, and not make the real swing until everything went well. I don't think it works for me.

What I do is try to simplify. I do make a practice swing, but all I concentrate on is the feel. I try to conjure up the feeling of a really good, rhythmic swing, proper balance, etc. I try to think only about the feel and not to think in words. Then I try make a practice swing, and put the same swing on the ball. If I think about something specific, it will usually be grip pressure, or a feeling of relaxed arms or something like that.

When I'm practicing, whether on the range or just swinging in my yard, I think of all of those mechanical details and work on them. But if I try to key on some specific mechanical thing when I'm playing, I get worse results than when I think about almost nothing.

I'm just starting to be able to understand what you mean, but I definitely still need to do a lot of mechanical check points even on the course. The feel thing really messed me up quite a few times especially over time, but that's probably just my lack of experience. However, I don't envision ever "out growing" this set of mechanical checks? Maybe it just won't look as awkward when I get better at it?

[Big Lex]

6 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I'm just starting to be able to understand what you mean, but I definitely still need to do a lot of mechanical check points even on the course. The feel thing really messed me up quite a few times especially over time, but that's probably just my lack of experience. However, I don't envision ever "out growing" this set of mechanical checks? Maybe it just won't look as awkward when I get better at it?

I don't know if your question is rhetorical or you are asking me specifically....but I am not really much better at golf than you; our hcp's are about the same. So I don't know if my answering is even a good idea  

I'm not saying my method is better than yours, only that it works for me.

When it comes down to an individual shot - not talking about mental aspects of golf in general, or one's approach to the game, or sports psychology, etc. - but just thinking about ONE shot, in my mind I don't think I can really do anything that guarantees a GOOD shot. I think more in terms of trying to AVOID thoughts that encourage a BAD shot.

I don't know what really happens, of course, in any given swing, but I've had the experience (that probably you have also) of making some thought, like "ok, make sure you hit down and THROUGH this one, catch it SOLID," and then end up doing the opposite, like hitting the ball thin.

So I started trying to do the opposite, to think of nothing, or maybe of something involving the WHOLE swing, and not a part. I spent a good part of a season thinking only "swing the club as fast as possible." As odd as that might sound, that worked pretty well. 

One that worked better was to think of the whole swing, but not in a verbal way, not as an "instruction," but just trying to imagine a feeling. That worked quite well for me.

 

[Big Lex]

To answer the OP question, one way I believe mental factors effect the swing would be as follows.

Everyone has had the experience of choking. Maybe you are playing well, having a good day, and then face an uncomfortable shot. Maybe it's a hole with a long forced carry over water. Or OB on the right. Whatever. You have your good round going, and so you REALLY want to get through this difficult shot with success, because you don't want to spoil your round. So....you decide to play it safe, go with a three wood or hybrid, aim comfortably away from the trouble....you tee it up, go through your routine, and choke....hit the ball OB anyway. You then tee up your second ball and hit it down the middle.

Performance anxiety...choking. The more it matters to you, the more value you attach to it, the harder it is to do. Affects everyone.

There are four holes on my home course with OB right. As my big miss is a block to the right, I'm always a little uncomfortable on these holes. And since hitting it OB is a huge penalty that costs dearly, the fact that I improved my hcp by over three strokes last season means I had to have played better on these holes.

What did I do? Well, I don't know for sure. I definitely played more last year, a lot more, and this probably helped me groove my compensations  I also took lessons, though, and I think my swing got a little better. I improved my bunker play a lot last year.

But I also made a mental adjustment. Not in my approach to these specific swings, but in general. I decided that I was going to approach the difficult shots with more confidence, more offensively than defensively. So instead of hitting my hybrid on one of the right OB holes, for example, I began trying a more aggressive shot--start the ball out on the right side of the fairway or even the right rough and try to draw it away from the OB....with a DRIVER.

Now, I didn't have GAME Golf last year so I know I might have been breaking some LSW GamePlanning rules, but if I did it couldn't have been too often, because my scores improved.

What I think this change did for me - meaning the change to playing more aggressively and positively with difficult shots - is that it gave me the opportunity of succeeding in making a very good shot under difficult conditions. As these successes accumulated over time, I became a little less fearful of the OB. I began to allow myself to think I was good enough to pull off a shot like that, that I didn't have to expect to hit a bad shot.

Last year was one of those years when improvement took a leap. The season before, I was constantly in about a 7 stroke range of scores 81-88 or so. Last year, I broke through and broke 80 several times, and sort of set up shop at the new level. I think the mental adjustment helped.