Drop after rolling of green

[Chris E]

I saw this Saturday morning when Chris Kirk was playing Rory.

On that drivable par 4, Kirk laid up and then hit a wedge into the green. When the ball landed on the green it went to the left, catching the slope, and into the water. He was allowed a drop onto the green since it was within 2 club lengths of where it entered the water. I think I heard the announcers say he could not drop and be closer to the pin. 

This brings me back to what happened to TW on 15 at the Masters that year. It looked to me the same thing, his ball landed on the green and spun back into the water. Why wasn't TW allowed to drop where the ball went into the water within 2 club lengths? Was it possible he could not take a drop there and not be closer to the pin?

Looking at google earth, it would seem tight if he could do this but it looks possible. Do you drop 2 club lengths from the red hazard line, or the hazard? Thanks. 

[DaveP043]

For Tiger, he hit into a regular hazard (yellow line).  His only two options are to drop, keeping the point where the ball entered the hazard (point of entry) between him and the hole, going as far back as he wanted, or to replay the shot.  He chose the second option, to replay the shot, but for the first option, he still would have been behind the hazard.  I didn't see Chris Kirk's shot, but it sounds like that was a lateral hazard (red line).  For lateral hazards, he had the additional option of dropping within two club lengths of the point of entry, as long as it was no closer to the hole.  For lateral hazards, he actually could have had another option, that of dropping on the opposite side of the hazard from where the ball entered the hazard.  However, in this case, that would have been on the other side of the river, and I'm pretty sure that's not part of the golf course.

BTW, Tiger got into trouble over his play on that hole because instead of dropping as close as possible to where his original shot was played, to "replay the shot", but he moved just a couple of yards further back in order to have a better yardage.  My impression at the time was that he had kind of combined the two options he had.

[Chris E]

Yes I don't want to rehash the TW controversy about his drop lol. I assume he couldn't drop like Kirk or he would have. That's my question, why Kirk could and he couldn't. 

It was a red line on Kirk's drop. I guess I never noticed the yellow vs red lines.

But, I think Kirk rolled into a pond at the front of the green, not the river. Looking at google earth again he could have dropped on a strip of land up near the tee box, it was not the river so why the lateral designation?. I guess the issue was the marshals assumed this was too penal?

[DaveP043]

The decision as to whether to mark a body of water with yellow stakes or red stakes is based on the definition of a "later water hazard" from the rules of golf:

A "lateral water hazard" is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-Ib.

In this case, with water all down the left side of the hole, the Committee apparently chose to mark it all as a lateral hazard.  The marshals don't get any say in this type of decision, although they can be pretty helpful in indicating the "point of entry".  

[iacas]

The difference is exactly as has been discussed: lateral water hazards (red lines) give you the added option of dropping within two clublengths (on either the side or the opposite margin) of the hazard. Yellow (water hazards) do not. You still have to negotiate the hazard, usually, with yellow… though occasionally a favorable drop zone is used.

[Chris E]

Thanks guys. 

[hlan]

It has to do with the type of hazard that was entered. TW hit into a yellow hazard, which basically means the hazard must be negotiated. A red or lateral hazard gives you more dropping options.

[Buckeyebowman]

This has been very well covered, but I think it's important to note how golf course design has contributed to the confusion. I remember watching a tournament, on the west coast I believe, where a golfer hit a ball into a lateral hazard on the west side of the hole. After his drop, the calls and e-mails began flooding in. I don't remember if Facebook and Twitter even existed then! They wondered why the golfer was able to drop on the green side of the hazard! Eventually the commentators provided an answer. If the lateral hazard were treated in the same way as a traditional hazard, the golfer's nearest point of relief would have been in Hawaii!

 

[Rulesman]

Pebble Beach is the classic.

http://www.fsga.org/sections/contect/eRevision---Rules---100114/545

 

[MacDutch]

On 28 maart 2016 at 7:18 PM, Chris E said:

I saw this Saturday morning when Chris Kirk was playing Rory.

On that drivable par 4, Kirk laid up and then hit a wedge into the green. When the ball landed on the green it went to the left, catching the slope, and into the water. He was allowed a drop onto the green since it was within 2 club lengths of where it entered the water.

Was he really allowed to drop on the green? Is dropping on a green ever a legit drop?

[Dormie1360]

37 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

Was he really allowed to drop on the green? Is dropping on a green ever a legit drop?

DROPPING ON PUTTING GREEN ALLOWED [4]

R24 Relief from Obstruction (Ball Lies in Bunker)

R25 Relief from Abnormal Ground Condition (Ball Lies in Bunker)

R26 Relief from Lateral Water Hazard (Ball Lies in Hazard)

R28 Ball Unplayable (Ball Not in a Bunker)

Edited April 4, 2016 by Dormie1360