MB's Centripetal Force Thread

[Pretzel]

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:36 PM, Mike Boatright said:

1. I believe the hips and upper torso turn act as the source of creating the untapped force on the backswing.

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How does this address centripetal forces specifically?

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:36 PM, Mike Boatright said:

2. I believe the bigger your turn and more tourqe you can create potentially. this allows you to have a faster axis on the downswing for more force without as much timing element.

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This has nothing to do with how you know what each portion of the body contributes to the golf swing. Please answer my question, not some question you made up.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:36 PM, Mike Boatright said:

3. It wen't off topic because I was simply trying to talk about the downswing with some picture descriptions to better get the idea not get in to data, Not that so much the mathematical physics of it all in numbers.

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You were trying to talk about the downswing making claims about centripetal forces. I asked you to explain the use of centripetal forces, since they were what you used to justify your argument. That isn't off-topic, I discussed the evidence of your argument.

[saevel25]

  On 4/5/2016 at 6:41 PM, Mike Boatright said:

Oh really your not impressed by top 50 or top 10 instructors out of the many thousands out there what a nonsensical statement.

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http://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/50-best-teachers-in-america

He's not on the list. 

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:12 PM, Mike Boatright said:

Forget the term then centripetal,centrifugal who cares! 

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Terms matter and knowledge of them matter. It leads to credibility of actually knowing what you are talking about. When you start delving into actual physics, applied forces and resultants, you better be willing to step up to the plate (haha baseball reference)  with an actual detailed understanding of physics and back up your claims. 

If not, then you are just using fancy terms to mask your own ignorance on the subject. 

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:12 PM, Mike Boatright said:

You guys are way to self righteous and close minded and have made me out to look like a fool when I was simply trying to share an idea. 

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You make yourself look like a fool

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:12 PM, Mike Boatright said:

the results will be that you can't because the golf swing is a motion not static keys or steps.

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No one said it was. 

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:15 PM, Mike Boatright said:

This is why Jim McLeans 8 step swing has gotten so much rub over the years as laughable and non applicable to the sport of golf.

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No one is promoting McLean's book. So why bring it up? It doesn't prove the fact that you are wrong. 

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Boatright said:

We can go on for hours on those technical aspects but the downswing doesn't work that way because it's moving so fast.

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Way to deflect from what you don't know. 

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Boatright said:

You could be sold on in by remembering when you have hit your best shots and would probably realize that you didn't force much and it just occurred you then asked yourself why can't I do that everytime?.

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Because the result of all the moving parts in the swing does not let the golfer deliver a consistent swing path with club face control at impact. . 

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Boatright said:

 played yesterday had a 235 par 3 very hard shot I made a good swing but tightened up a bit on the downswing and yanked it left. If I just let it go I would gave hit the green.

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A person just doesn't swing relaxed one moment and tighten up the next. A bad golfer is very consistent at delivering a bad swing. 

A bad golfer has low accuracy and low precision in getting the golf ball to hit the center of the clubface. 

A good golfer has very high accuracy and very high precision in getting the golf ball to hit the center of the clubface. 

The major issues that plague bad golfers are a lack of a steady head, not getting the weight forward at impact, and not getting the hands inline with the ball and the shoulder at impact. Lack of these things causes a high variability of contact conditions at impact. 

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Boatright said:

Answer is no your just using a play on words to further try tor make my point irrelevant without substance.

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No, you make it irrelevant and without substance. 

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:36 PM, Mike Boatright said:

1. I believe the hips and upper torso turn act as the source of creating the untapped force on the backswing.

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Arm speed is the primary driver of clubhead speed, upwards of 70% of it. This has been measured.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:36 PM, Mike Boatright said:

2. I believe the bigger your turn and more tourqe you can create potentially. this allows you to have a faster axis on the downswing for more force without as much timing element.

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Actually it can be the opposite if you stretch your muscles too much and lose leverage. Do a bench press. Let the weights fall below your chest. It's very hard to produce a lot of speed versus if you stop the weights above your chest. Your muscles have a range in which they are optimal for producing speed. Overextending them is not optimal. 

[Mike Boatright]

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:41 PM, saevel25 said:

http://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/50-best-teachers-in-america

He's not on the list. 

Terms matter and knowledge of them matter. It leads to credibility of actually knowing what you are talking about. When you start delving into actual physics, applied forces and resultants, you better be willing to step up to the plate (haha baseball reference)  with an actual detailed understanding of physics and back up your claims. 

If not, then you are just using fancy terms to mask your own ignorance on the subject. 

You make yourself look like a fool

No one said it was. 

No one is promoting McLean's book. So why bring it up? It doesn't prove the fact that you are wrong. 

Way to deflect from what you don't know. 

Because the result of all the moving parts in the swing does not let the golfer deliver a consistent swing path with club face control at impact. . 

A person just doesn't swing relaxed one moment and tighten up the next. A bad golfer is very consistent at delivering a bad swing. 

A bad golfer has low accuracy and low precision in getting the golf ball to hit the center of the clubface. 

A good golfer has very high accuracy and very high precision in getting the golf ball to hit the center of the clubface. 

The major issues that plague bad golfers are a lack of a steady head, not getting the weight forward at impact, and not getting the hands inline with the ball and the shoulder at impact. Lack of these things causes a high variability of contact conditions at impact. 

No, you make it irrelevant and without substance. 

Arm speed is the primary driver of clubhead speed, upwards of 70% of it. This has been measured.

Actually it can be the opposite if you stretch your muscles too much and lose leverage. Do a bench press. Let the weights fall below your chest. It's very hard to produce a lot of speed versus if you stop the weights above your chest. Your muscles have a range in which they are optimal for producing speed. Overextending them is not optimal. 

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I'm sure all that stuff as well.

[iacas]

  On 4/5/2016 at 5:34 PM, Mike Boatright said:

I'm saying it is right,but apparently you guys are a bunch pf physics graduates and are laughing at the fact I'm using terms incorrectly. Anyway I say I'm done talking about this, but will stick to my guns and say i'm right.

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You're not right. And we do know a bit about physics.

Perhaps rather than trying to co-opt physics terms, you should instead just make your own graphics or something. Make your own graphics and draw arrows, and show us what you mean graphically? I don't know that it would be any less wrong, but it would at least save us all some time when we point out things like "centrifugal force is not real" and things like that.

  On 4/5/2016 at 6:27 PM, Mike Boatright said:

That's my uncle bro 

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That doesn't mean his information is credible.

  On 4/5/2016 at 6:41 PM, Mike Boatright said:

Oh really your not impressed by top 50 or top 10 instructors out of the many thousands out there what a nonsensical statement.

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There's no actual ranking system. It's largely political. Guess what: someone like Sasho Mackenzie or Rob Neal or Dr. Kwon or some other scientist isn't going to appear in those lists of top instructors because they're not instructors, but they'd beat the pants off your uncle or Peterson or anyone on that list when it comes to basic physics stuff.

And, I don't think it's in the slightest bit egotistical to say that I am a better instructor than most of the Top 50. I've seen them teach. I've talked with them. I know what they're about.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:12 PM, Mike Boatright said:

Forget the term then centripetal,centrifugal who cares!

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You did!

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:12 PM, Mike Boatright said:

You guys are way to self righteous and close minded and have made me out to look like a fool when I was simply trying to share an idea.

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Hardly.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:12 PM, Mike Boatright said:

I don't think Don Peterson is not incorrect at all.

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I don't think he's correct either.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:12 PM, Mike Boatright said:

Imagine this Boogie make your perfect golf swing and hold on to the club as tight as you can and attempt to complete a swing. the results will be that you can't because the golf swing is a motion not static keys or steps.

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What does one have to do with the other? By holding on to the club tightly (which has nothing to do with the hips, which is what you now claim this thread is about…), he's going to make a swing in a series of steps? Not a continuous motion?

What on earth are you talking about?

And the 5 Simple Keys® are not static or positions or steps. They're all dynamically achieved, measurable, verifiable things that great players do.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Boatright said:

We can go on for hours on those technical aspects but the downswing doesn't work that way because it's moving so fast. My point here is most players tend to think of technical variations in that aspect of the swing when in reality there really isn't much.

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There are a tremendous number of downswing positions that people can hit. Many of them are bad.

And I've said here on this very site that once you get to about A5 you have no real control over what happens between A5 and A7:

But that doesn't mean you can't work on the downswing, as we work on the downswing all the time with good players (and bad). They still have to do things from A3 to A5 that carry on or continue or are set in motion. They still have to DO these things - they do not happen automatically as you have claimed.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Boatright said:

You could be sold on in by remembering when you have hit your best shots and would probably realize that you didn't force much and it just occurred you then asked yourself why can't I do that everytime?

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You're not understanding the very big difference between a feeling and what's actually happening.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Boatright said:

I played yesterday had a 235 par 3 very hard shot I made a good swing but tightened up a bit on the downswing and yanked it left. If I just let it go I would gave hit the green.

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So you hit a bad shot on the golf course. Congratulations. Apparently, in your mind, this makes you qualified to come up with misguided and incorrect swing theories?

If golf for you was that simple, then we can expect you to be on the PGA Tour soon, right? Because if all you had to do is "just let it go" and you'd hit a great shot, apparently? So then here's my advice for you: just do that. Just let it go." Again, we can expect to see you winning the U.S. Open now, right?

No, because there's a lot more to it than that.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Boatright said:

''So we should forget about the trends that you claimed provided the sustenance of your argument?''

Answer is no your just using a play on words to further try tor make my point irrelevant without substance.

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What?

Your first post talked all about centripetal force. When pushed to explain what you mean, or whatever, you now claim that… we're trying to make your point "irrelevant without substance"? By asking you to clarify or elaborate?

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:36 PM, Mike Boatright said:

1. I believe the hips and upper torso turn act as the source of creating the untapped force on the backswing.

2. I believe the bigger your turn and more tourqe you can create potentially. this allows you to have a faster axis on the downswing for more force without as much timing element.

3. It wen't off topic because I was simply trying to talk about the downswing with some picture descriptions to better get the idea not get in to data, Not that so much the mathematical physics of it all in numbers.

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1. The word "hip"does not appear until post 8 in that thread. If the hips are so important, why didn't you talk about them in the first post? And what do the hips have to do with centripetal force? You do know that the centripetal force in the golf swing is inward around the arc on which the club swings, right? That arc doesn't really pass through the hips. If you look at the video below, you'll see it passes well above the hips (and below the shoulders, since your arms and the club shaft don't form a 180° angle).
2. Now you're going to abuse the word "torque" eh? What does this post have anything to do with what you said in the first post? What is "the negative position" (it must be important - it was in ALL CAPS) and what does that have to do with turning? 
3. This thread has not gone off topic. If you don't want to get into numbers, here's a tip: stop giving out numbers you make up. You'll get called out on them.

Even though you didn't answer those questions, I have some more for you:

1. Where and how, specifically, does the golfer apply centripetal force to help him in making the downswing?
2. How much of the downswing is muscle-driven? An active thing a golfer must do? How much of it is not firing muscles at all and just letting the "forces of nature" take over?
3. Why do you continue to argue instead of just, for once, listening to what others have to say, and giving them some credit or giving what they say some thought?

That video is from Dr. Kwon's and Chris Como's work on the "functional swing plane," btw.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:39 PM, Pretzel said:

How does this address centripetal forces specifically?

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It doesn't.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:39 PM, Pretzel said:

This has nothing to do with how you know what each portion of the body contributes to the golf swing. Please answer my question, not some question you made up.

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He doesn't understand the question.

  On 4/5/2016 at 7:39 PM, Pretzel said:

You were trying to talk about the downswing making claims about centripetal forces. I asked you to explain the use of centripetal forces, since they were what you used to justify your argument. That isn't off-topic, I discussed the evidence of your argument.

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Right on.

[Mike Boatright]

Right on I agree

[Pretzel]

  On 4/5/2016 at 8:16 PM, Mike Boatright said:

Right on I agree

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Might I suggest changing your avatar to a shovel, that you might dig your way out of this hole before it's too late?

[Valleygolfer]

 

[phillyk]

  On 4/5/2016 at 8:19 PM, Pretzel said:

Might I suggest changing your avatar to a shovel, that you might dig your way out of this hole before it's too late?

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No he can use centripetal force and his 5 -iron in there to do it.  Just let it go, everything will happen fast.

[Mike Boatright]

What you guys don't have a sense of humor? I actually agree discussion is over.