"Line of Putt, Jordan."

[BallStriker]

2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

And, more importantly, how could he possibly internionally step in his own line when he's still at the very beginning of the process of determining what his line is going to be?

 

I think that he walked up to read the 2nd half of the putt directly from the spot where he thought his putt would be at that point..thus, I think it is fair to assume that he knew exactly where his ball would be at when it started the "2nd half" of the putt (thus, he had already "read" the first half of the putt)

What would your opinion be if he admitted that the above assumption is true?  I am not arguing it is absolutely true, just curious as to your application of the rule if one accepts that assumption as a fact

Edited April 10, 2016 by BallStriker

[natureboy]

It's a bit challenging to be precise, because the camera is zooming in on the green changing perspective.

With the caveat, I found looking at some of the stills a little concerning. Even as a Spieth fan, I'll be looking to see if this is a pattern.

If he thought the putt on an initial read was right to left then he's okay.

If he thought it was a straight uphill putt, he's technically okay IMO. As I see it, he places his right foot very close to but not on the straight ball to the hole line.

He did appear to walk on the eventual line - where he actually putted it. What if he changed his mind from a straight putt to a left to right break?

Does the rule define intended as the same as the eventual line? In other words, what if you change your mind on the read? IMO he should have at least been more careful to skirt 'possible' eventual lines if he was undecided while formulating a read.

[JLeeWildcat9]

The bottom line is: Respect the general line. He walked on top of it so early (no respect for the rules or the precision Augusta National hangs it hat on) in the putt, how can someone say that the #2 player in the world, did that by accident? ... #12 took care of any disturbance in the force today ;)

[Buckeyebowman]

22 hours ago, ChrisP said:

Just a brief mention on this...I don't see anything wrong with what he did, but if that's a rule, then some of the rules are pretty nuts. But I thought the penalty on Tiger a couple years ago was pretty stupid, too. This is the part of golf I hate. Some of these little rules are a bit extreme, and you also have people with no life who call these PGA guys trying to "gotcha" them. But Jordan is a pretty smart guy....he knows all the rules as much as anyone and he knows the camera is studying him and on him non-stop. I don't think he'd do something intentional knowing that he'd probably get caught and get penalized. I don't know. Just my 2 cents. I say no big deal and who the heck cares, but that's just me.

I have to agree. Some of the rules of Golf are pretty anal. Most of the guys I play with abide by the spirit of the rules in that we don't try to gain unfair advantage over our playing partners! We play "Winter rules" around here a lot, because we don't play courses like Augusta. Improve your lie if you want, but, if you're stuck behind a tree, you better still be stuck behind that tree when you're done!

22 hours ago, rkim291968 said:

Stepping on a line of putt on a course like this  ... would it really improve the putting surface for the particular putt?  I really doubt it.   This thread is  much ado about nothing, IMO.   

You read my mind! The last thing I would do to improve my line of putt is step in it! I know how apologetic I am when I accidentally step in someone else's line, and that hasn't happened in years! And despite the fact that the line of putt ends at the hole according to the rules, you can see how careful players are not to step on the "through line" of another player. From the tone of the OP I thought we were going to see a blatant example of using the putter blade to tamp down spike marks!

And if I, or my buddies, encounter a spike mark in our line? Admittedly a rare occurrence in these days of Softspikes. We tamp them down! And some guys on tour still wear nails. In our case we'll sometimes be playing behind a slew footed rhinoceros who can't seem to pick up his feet, and repeatedly scuffs the green! We tamp those down too!

[Golfingdad]

12 minutes ago, JLeeWildcat9 said:

how can someone say that the #2 player in the world, did that by accident?

Because the alternative requires that you then explain WHY he would do that, which, to this point, nobody has been able to do.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

Because the alternative requires that you then explain WHY he would do that, which, to this point, nobody has been able to do.

I still can't reconcile the difference between the USGA Decisions on their website and the joint ruling on Aimpoint. 

If the person doesn't know the line before doing their Aimpoint then standing anywhere would be an accident if they stood on their line. Yet their ruling specified that they must stand a reasonable distance away from their putting line. Since they are reading the putt with their feet at the midpoint then the decision on if they stood on their line comes after confirming where the line of the putt is going to be. 

If that is the case then shouldn't that be the same for Spieth who glanced at his line then walked on his line to read the putt on the top tier. What is the difference? Shouldn't he be required to stand a reasonable distance away from his line as to make sure he didn't stand on it after confirming where his line is? 

[Gunther]

Much ado about nothing.  This was fully reviewed and deemed OK by the rules committee.  

I can understand the threat Jordan represents to some of you but he is a slow player and he did have a melt down on 12 today. Focus on those actual issues rather than this phantom one, if you want to be a hater.  I choose to believe he's the nicest, most genuine, stone-cold killer golf has seen since Arnold.  To each his own.

[saevel25]

14 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Much ado about nothing.  This was fully reviewed and deemed OK by the rules committee.  

Was it? 

14 minutes ago, Gunther said:

I can understand the threat Jordan represents to some of you but he is a slow player and he did have a melt down on 12 today. Focus on those actual issues rather than this phantom one, if you want to be a hater.  I choose to believe he's the nicest, most genuine, stone-cold killer golf has seen since Arnold.  To each his own.

Ah here we go. How did it feel to have your golden boy blow up on ya? Must have hurt a lot. So, you decide to play the hater card. Guess what, I like Spieth. I like his game. I think he's great for golf right now. 

The question is did he break the rules? It doesn't matter if you hate him, like him, or are indifferent about him.  If he broke the rules then he did.

 

[Gunther]

5 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Was it? 

Ah here we go. How did it feel to have your golden boy blow up on ya? Must have hurt a lot. So, you decide to play the hater card. Guess what, I like Spieth. I like his game. I think he's great for golf right now. 

The question is did he break the rules? It doesn't matter if you hate him, like him, or are indifferent about him.  If he broke the rules then he did.

 

Again, you don't read.  This has been vetted by smarter folks than anyone here.  There was no rules violation.  So, understanding that and continuing to try to promote a rules infraction would be described as what, in your mind?  

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Again, you don't read.  This has been vetted by smarter folks than anyone here.  There was no rules violation.  So, understanding that and continuing to try to promote a rules infraction would be described as what, in your mind?  

Has it, I just re read the thread and found nothing mentioned about this being vetted or ruled by the officials at Augusta. I think this went pretty much unnoticed. 

I am still waiting on an answer on why the rules state you can accidentally walk on your line if you didn't know the true line you intend to hit it versus why the Aimpoint method requires you to stand a reasonable distance away from the line when you don't know the line to begin with till you use Aimpoint to read the green.

Does that bring in that all golfers, not matter what the method, should attempt to stand a reasonable distance away from the intended line. If that is the case, did Spieth do that? If not then did he violate the rule. If he doesn't then is this unfair for us Aimpoint users who have to stand a reasonable distance away?

[JLeeWildcat9]

The proximity in which he entered the line was so early, and he was in no hurry to get off of it. A golfer was disqualified from a U.S. Open for wiping dew off in front of his ball, during a resume play situation. So I know the rules are extreme and they test your character. That's one of the vital reasons Golf is the greatest on Earth. It has been worth a good board discussion.

[14ledo81]

7 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Because the alternative requires that you then explain WHY he would do that, which, to this point, nobody has been able to do.

I disagree with this.  I don't need to be able to read Jordan's mind about "Why" he broke a rule.  I don't think that should factor into a rules infraction decision.

 

But..... to answer your question anyway....

 

 

17 hours ago, BallStriker said:

I think that he walked up to read the 2nd half of the putt directly from the spot where he thought his putt would be at that point..thus, I think it is fair to assume that he knew exactly where his ball would be at when it started the "2nd half" of the putt (thus, he had already "read" the first half of the putt)

 

This.  I think it made reading the second half easier.

[Golfingdad]

2 hours ago, 14ledo81 said:

I disagree with this.  I don't need to be able to read Jordan's mind about "Why" he broke a rule.  I don't think that should factor into a rules infraction decision.

 

But..... to answer your question anyway....

 

 

This.  I think it made reading the second half easier.

So are you guys suggesting that he doesn't realize there is a rule that says he can't stand on his own line or are you suggesting that he is a cheater?

The reason that I said nobody had explained why is not because I hadn't read that but rather because I find both of those implications monumentally absurd.

[saevel25]

44 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

So are you guys suggesting that he doesn't realize there is a rule that says he can't stand on his own line or are you suggesting that he is a cheater?

Knowing the rules doesn't mean you don't pay attention to them 100% of the time. 

Everyone has a hiccup every once in a while. 

I still don't get why they even have the rule anyways if it is tied to improving your line or lie. Does that make sense? I understand the putter since it is a flat surface on the bottom if you tamp down on line. I don't want a foot mark in my line. I get where you are saying with that. 

It's just a weird rule and decision on the USGA website. To me accidental would be if you trip and stomped on your line. If you happen to walk near the apex because you haven't figured out how much break it has and you were trying to walk far enough away. 

On a straight putt, that the only part he wanted to make sure of is the top tier, he walks down the line of his putt. I don't know how that is an accident other than we just want to classify an accident as when you just don't know your line yet so you get plausible deniability. If that is the case then you can walk anywhere on the green because you can just state you don't know where your line is at so walking on it is an accident. 

That is at least how I see this rule being applied with the way it's worded. If that is the case then is it even a good rule to have? 

Should the rule only be applied if the intently pat down on their line with their foot? 

[Golfingdad]

47 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Everyone has a hiccup every once in a while.

But the quoted rule previously in the thread says "intentionally" stepping in your line ... how could it be both intentional and a hiccup?

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

But the quoted rule previously in the thread says "intentionally" stepping in your line ... how could it be both intentional and a hiccup?

The decision for the rule says intentional, correct. If we want to consider that accidental is not being aware of the rule then fine. Not sure if that is how they intended the word accidental to be used, versus lets say forgetting where the line was or the line having more break then you thought, but it would be literally interpretation of the word accident. 

 I find this rule perplexing in how the USGA decided to define it in the decision. I find it counter to the Aimpoint joint ruling with the R&A claiming reasonable distance from the line. 

 

 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

But the quoted rule previously in the thread says "intentionally" stepping in your line ... how could it be both intentional and a hiccup?

It could be. You can intentionally ground your club in a hazard but brain fart in doing so (i.e. hiccup, maybe you forgot you were in a hazard, like ground your club on grass inside the margin of a lateral water hazard).

I've accidentally touched the line of my putt. Say I'm walking back to my ball marker and forget where it is exactly, or whatever. I have never knowingly walked directly up my line as Jordan did. I try to take care to know where my line is and a margin to each side.

Would I penalize Jordan in this case? I'd talk with him. I suspect I wouldn't given what he'd likely say, but if he said "yeah, I wanted to walk up to feel the ground where it would crest the hill" or something, then I might.

(Note: the example I gave is obviously not 100% analogous, as there's no forgiveness for "accidentally" grounding your club in a hazard.)

[Buckeyebowman]

OK, I'm going to vent! I've had enough. After reading a thread like this, is it any wonder that people are leaving golf in droves? And it's not just golf. With all the nit picky new rules, I find that watching an NFL contest comes closer to watching a legal proceeding rather than watching a sporting event, or "game"! It's becoming boring! I realize that governments around the world have been bent and distorted to benefit lawyers, but it distresses me to see games go the same way.