How good could you get if you....

[Lihu]

14 hours ago, Faksakes said:

...had 20-30 hours a week to golf? That includes instruction, practice and playing time.

For me I'm a 11.5hc and play on average twice a week and practice (hit a bucket of balls, no short game or putting) twice a week. That is two more practice sessions than I normally do and I've been getting some online lessons as well as signed up for a trial at GGswingtips (George Gankas) site and there is some seriously great info on there imo.  I started the year at a 13 and down to an 11 after about a month of golf. My low ever has been a 9hc and that was only for a few weeks. For the last 10 years I can maintain a 13-15hc with almost no practice.

I've never had a lot of time or money to golf as much as I'd like. Usually get 30-35 rounds in per year. I am considering getting a membership and trying to get in 70+ rounds as I have the time this year and some extra cash. Normally I just pay to play as that's what all my golf buddies do. 

So anyone out there put that kind of time into golf that previously had never had the chance/inclination to?

How did it impact your scores? I'm thinking I might really focus on golf this year and see if I can get my index low enough to play some competitive am golf this year and next. I need to get below an 8 to even get into a qualifier for my city and provincial armature championships. I have played two or three real competitive am tournies in my life (oh I'm 38 fyi) so this would be a new thing pretty much. There are two local "Am Tours" here so I could play in some of those events as well to get used to the pressure.

 

This is how I'd use the time I'm thinking -

Play 4 rounds of golf - 16-19 hours

Practice - 5 hours (3 hours full swing, 1 hour short game, 1 hour putting)

Physical training - 3 hours 

Lessons, vids, etc. - 2+ hours (I have downtime at my job where it's cool to do this there. I'm doing all online so this won't impact my golf time at all.)

Play as many tournaments as possible. This is a bit of a problem as I work weekends, but there are quite a few during the week. I think this summer I could get in at least 6-10 of them not including the city and provincial am qualifiers if I can get below an 8 by June which is unlikely although I'm an optimist hah.

Costs: 

Clubs - Zero. I have my bag set. I hope lol.

Membership - $1800 (course is very good with a high slope rating (134 from blues, 140 from blacks). Includes full use of practice facility which is basic but decent.

Lessons, training etc. - $500

Rounds outside of my home course - $750

Tournament entry fee's - $1500

golf stuff like balls, gloves, clothing etc. -$1000

Game golf - $245

Total costs: $5745 for the season.  I may have overestimated some costs and underestimated others but around 6K works for me.

So what say ye all. How good could you/did you get putting in this kind of effort?  I have always wondered how good I could be if I put in the time and work. Suggestions and advice are appreciated. I have not 100% committed to this plan yet so I am flexible to change right now. Appreciate the time!

James

PS. I have not wife or kids to worry about. Just work golf, friends and dating for fun.

First, get LSW.

Second join evolvr, that's what I'd do if I was not having fun with golf. I've heard good things about it and also experienced a few lessons that were live and evolvr like. I was even contemplating joining recently, but I made some breakthroughs plus I'm not really looking to get down to a sub 7 index.

Lastly, change your plan to practice more and play less. Improvement comes with effective practice, which the first two items would teach you.

Cost: much lower than you quoted and probably much more effective.

To answer your question about me, I think 9.2 is pretty much it. If I can get better it would take a lot more work, I would need to get serious about my practice and training. It would not be that much fun for me. As an 11 index, you've probably shot low rounds? Think about how hard those low rounds would be if you expected to play that well all the time. Remember all the lucky mistakes that ended you up on the green, and the one putts from 12 feet that got you those birdies. You would need to turn those lucky shots into purposeful ones. Try hitting targets even at the driving range the way you would on the course. It's really hard to do. This is why I think that getting below 7 index is not a happy thing for me as a goal. If it happens because I start hitting straighter or something else that I can practice, fine, but it's very hard to get from a mid handicapper down to a 6-7 handicap or lower.

[Faksakes]

16 minutes ago, Lihu said:

First, get LSW.

Second join evolvr, that's what I'd do if I was not having fun with golf. I've heard good things about it and also experienced a few lessons that were live and evolvr like. I was even contemplating joining recently, but I made some breakthroughs plus I'm not really looking to get down to a sub 7 index.

Lastly, change your plan to practice more and play less. Improvement comes with effective practice, which the first two items would teach you.

Cost: much lower than you quoted and probably much more effective.

To answer your question about me, I think 9.2 is pretty much it. If I can get better it would take a lot more work, I would need to get serious about my practice and training. It would not be that much fun for me. As an 11 index, you've probably shot low rounds? Think about how hard those low rounds would be if you expected to play that well all the time. Remember all the lucky mistakes that ended you up on the green, and the one putts from 12 feet that got you those birdies. You would need to turn those lucky shots into purposeful ones. Try hitting targets even at the driving range the way you would on the course. It's really hard to do. This is why I think that getting below 7 index is not a happy thing for me as a goal. If it happens because I start hitting straighter or something else that I can practice, fine, but it's very hard to get from a mid handicapper down to a 6-7 handicap or lower.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I will pick up a copy of lsw soon. What is evolvr? Never heard of it. As for the play less practice more, my coach disagrees with you. He thinks both are important but that being in real game situations is where most improvements come. It makes sense to me if I'm working on a change to do it at the range but not sure it's the best use of my time to reduce playing time for the range. I am flexible though and am not married to the idea. Maybe I'll see how the first few weeks go and adjust accordingly. That is if I do this. Still haven't made the commitment yet as I don't want to half ass it if I'm going to go through with it.

Ah I see what Evolvr is, I already have a coach that I use for online lessons. 

[Lihu]

55 minutes ago, Faksakes said:

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I will pick up a copy of lsw soon. What is evolvr? Never heard of it. As for the play less practice more, my coach disagrees with you. He thinks both are important but that being in real game situations is where most improvements come. It makes sense to me if I'm working on a change to do it at the range but not sure it's the best use of my time to reduce playing time for the range. I am flexible though and am not married to the idea. Maybe I'll see how the first few weeks go and adjust accordingly. That is if I do this. Still haven't made the commitment yet as I don't want to half ass it if I'm going to go through with it.

Ah I see what Evolvr is, I already have a coach that I use for online lessons. 

I kind of see this happening in months not weeks, and that's fine. The main thing about playing so much more than practicing is that it's the practice sessions that are used to make changes to your swing. I wouldn't make swing changes on the course unless you happen to be playing every single day and use the course as your practice range. I did that the last few years, and got from a 15/16 down to a 12 or so. However, to make the big leap from a bogey type golfer down to a mid handicapper, took a lot of practice sessions. Maybe less if I had been practicing effectively, but it took a lot of work to make my swing more flexible to the point where if I see a flaw I can make a change immediately. Then before taking that swing to the course, I would need to kind of ingrain it, or I could easily fall back on my old habits.

Real change takes a long time, and I found that by practicing in a non scoring situation is the best place to do it.

 

[Faksakes]

15 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I kind of see this happening in months not weeks, and that's fine. The main thing about playing so much more than practicing is that it's the practice sessions that are used to make changes to your swing. I wouldn't make swing changes on the course unless you happen to be playing every single day and use the course as your practice range. I did that the last few years, and got from a 15/16 down to a 12 or so. However, to make the big leap from a bogey type golfer down to a mid handicapper, took a lot of practice sessions. Maybe less if I had been practicing effectively, but it took a lot of work to make my swing more flexible to the point where if I see a flaw I can make a change immediately. Then before taking that swing to the course, I would need to kind of ingrain it, or I could easily fall back on my old habits.

Real change takes a long time, and I found that by practicing in a non scoring situation is the best place to do it.

 

Oh Months for sure. I just meant I might try my plan for a few weeks first and if that's not getting the desired results change up to more range time and less play time as you suggested. I agree that real change takes a long time, as far a swing change goes. I'm hoping with managing my game better, practicing much more than currently and playing much more the results will take care of themselves. I've read the talent code a few years back, and that's a great reminder. Really appreciate it Lihu.

[newtogolf]

I enjoy golf as a diversion from my every day life.  While I'm confident I could get down to single digits if I dedicated 20-30 hours per week to it, I'd be concerned that it would feel like a job to me and I'd lose the passion I have for it after some time of putting in that level of effort.  

There are some weeks if the weather and business cooperate that I can fit in 3-4 rounds a week with some practice but I do it out of enjoyment not out of necessity.   I'm not sure I'd want to wake up thinking I HAVE to go to the golf course to practice or play.  

[MizunoPez]

I maintain my 3 handicap by mostly playing once a week every Saturday, sometimes once every two weeks. I rarely have time to practice but if i do it will be 100 balls down the range every now and then. I do get a few weeks off during the summer and a week here and there during the year (teacher) though and I will try to play at least twice a week.

If I could play 20/30 hours a week I am confident I would be a scratch golfer or better, not trying to be big headed. If I was born again I would definitely become a pro at a golf club or something along those lines!

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

I enjoy golf as a diversion from my every day life.  While I'm confident I could get down to single digits if I dedicated 20-30 hours per week to it, I'd be concerned that it would feel like a job to me and I'd lose the passion I have for it after some time of putting in that level of effort.  

There are some weeks if the weather and business cooperate that I can fit in 3-4 rounds a week with some practice but I do it out of enjoyment not out of necessity.   I'm not sure I'd want to wake up thinking I HAVE to go to the golf course to practice or play.  

 

25 minutes ago, MizunoPez said:

I maintain my 3 handicap by mostly playing once a week every Saturday, sometimes once every two weeks. I rarely have time to practice but if i do it will be 100 balls down the range every now and then. I do get a few weeks off during the summer and a week here and there during the year (teacher) though and I will try to play at least twice a week.

If I could play 20/30 hours a week I am confident I would be a scratch golfer or better, not trying to be big headed. If I was born again I would definitely become a pro at a golf club or something along those lines!

Everyone is different, I guess.

I'm totally different. When I was a "36 handicap", I had no idea I could become a bogey golfer much less know what is a bogey golfer. I had this strange perception that getting the ball into a hole in 4 shots couldn't be that hard and that led to a lot of frustration. By the time I got to around a 20 handicap (I was assigned a 17.7 handicap on this site at that time), I had no idea if I could get better than that. It seemed like I was playing as good as I could ever play. Then when I got down to a 15, it seemed like that was the best I could play. It continued this way and still continues. Even though my GHIN is officially a 9.2 and GG is 8.6 or something like that, I feel like the same "10 handicapper" I was half a year ago. I'm still not that confident that I could become a single digit player. My drives still go all over the place and I pull a lot of my approach shots. Yes, the occasional haphazard birdie happens, but I still feel like I'm a long way away to becoming a truly confident single digit player. While I don't think I'll play worse than my current playing ability, I certainly don't feel anywhere confident that I can play better either. It's like I see every failure on the driving range (of which there are many), as an extra stroke that keeps me from improving all that much. I can't imagine getting better no matter how much more time I put into this game, much less being capable of reaching a goal I haven't already met.

It's also very difficult for me to imagine anyone being confident about reaching a goal they haven't already reached, but that's just me.

[saevel25]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Even though my GHIN is officially a 9.2 and GG is 8.6 or something like that, I feel like the same "10 handicapper" I was half a year ago. I'm still not that confident that I could become a single digit player.

You already are if you are claiming to be a 9.2. I am pretty good at math and 9 is a single digit 

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

It's also very difficult for me to imagine anyone being confident about reaching a goal they haven't already reached, but that's just me.

It is just you. Honestly the pessimism is a tad annoying.

I know the level of my game right now. I know I have room to grow in many aspects. I know statistically where I could be if I do get better. I also know the potential I have due to the long game I have. It's not hard for me to project what I could achieve. 

[nevets88]

Look at The Dan Plan, he had twice the time and hit a wall, imho I don't think he had the greatest instruction or structure.

There are others who've done the same and we'd hear about the amazing success if they were successful. The ones who toiled in anonymity and were "successful" (it's a vague definition - good - here) you never hear about imho had a combination of drive, sufficient talent and most importantly, good information.

Instead of declaring outright I want to get this X amount good, I'd just work on improving as much as possible and see where it goes. No one can tell you whether you can do it or not, there are too many variables.

[MizunoPez]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

 

Everyone is different, I guess.

I'm totally different. When I was a "36 handicap", I had no idea I could become a bogey golfer much less know what is a bogey golfer. I had this strange perception that getting the ball into a hole in 4 shots couldn't be that hard and that led to a lot of frustration. By the time I got to around a 20 handicap (I was assigned a 17.7 handicap on this site at that time), I had no idea if I could get better than that. It seemed like I was playing as good as I could ever play. Then when I got down to a 15, it seemed like that was the best I could play. It continued this way and still continues. Even though my GHIN is officially a 9.2 and GG is 8.6 or something like that, I feel like the same "10 handicapper" I was half a year ago. I'm still not that confident that I could become a single digit player. My drives still go all over the place and I pull a lot of my approach shots. Yes, the occasional haphazard birdie happens, but I still feel like I'm a long way away to becoming a truly confident single digit player. While I don't think I'll play worse than my current playing ability, I certainly don't feel anywhere confident that I can play better either. It's like I see every failure on the driving range (of which there are many), as an extra stroke that keeps me from improving all that much. I can't imagine getting better no matter how much more time I put into this game, much less being capable of reaching a goal I haven't already met.

It's also very difficult for me to imagine anyone being confident about reaching a goal they haven't already reached, but that's just me.

yea true. I guess i'm just confident in my own ability. I've also never had a lesson and am self taught too. Just think if I played that many hours with a bit of instruction I could manage it. 

[Faksakes]

1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

Look at The Dan Plan, he had twice the time and hit a wall, imho I don't think he had the greatest instruction or structure.

There are others who've done the same and we'd hear about the amazing success if they were successful. The ones who toiled in anonymity and were "successful" (it's a vague definition - good - here) you never hear about imho had a combination of drive, sufficient talent and most importantly, good information.

Instead of declaring outright I want to get this X amount good, I'd just work on improving as much as possible and see where it goes. No one can tell you whether you can do it or not, there are too many variables.

The Dan plan is a very different situation. He was going from never golfing to trying to be a pro. That's a world of difference from an 11 cap with 20+ years of golf experience trying to qualify for some am events. I also agree that his instruction and plan were very flawed. It took me a long time, many years and some terrible teachers to learn what I even need to do in my swing.

As for not declaring a goal or intent of what I want to accomplish I don't agree with you. If you don't know where you're going, you won't get there. Targets are important imo. I may just start with some small ones though and as I achieve them set new ones. For example my initial or short term goal might just be to get below a 10. If and when I hit that make a goal to get to an 8 and on and on. I can do this and still have the long term goal of getting below an 8 and qualifying for some Am events.

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

You already are if you are claiming to be a 9.2. I am pretty good at math and 9 is a single digit 

It is just you. Honestly the pessimism is a tad annoying.

I know the level of my game right now. I know I have room to grow in many aspects. I know statistically where I could be if I do get better. I also know the potential I have due to the long game I have. It's not hard for me to project what I could achieve. 

I feel the same way. I know my flaws and believe I can correct them.

5 hours ago, newtogolf said:

I enjoy golf as a diversion from my every day life.  While I'm confident I could get down to single digits if I dedicated 20-30 hours per week to it, I'd be concerned that it would feel like a job to me and I'd lose the passion I have for it after some time of putting in that level of effort.  

There are some weeks if the weather and business cooperate that I can fit in 3-4 rounds a week with some practice but I do it out of enjoyment not out of necessity.   I'm not sure I'd want to wake up thinking I HAVE to go to the golf course to practice or play.  

This is a valid concern and one I share. I want this to be fun and not turn into a "job". I have experience on my side though, I'm not 18 so I think mentally I'll be able to handle that.

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

 

Everyone is different, I guess.

I'm totally different. When I was a "36 handicap", I had no idea I could become a bogey golfer much less know what is a bogey golfer. I had this strange perception that getting the ball into a hole in 4 shots couldn't be that hard and that led to a lot of frustration. By the time I got to around a 20 handicap (I was assigned a 17.7 handicap on this site at that time), I had no idea if I could get better than that. It seemed like I was playing as good as I could ever play. Then when I got down to a 15, it seemed like that was the best I could play. It continued this way and still continues. Even though my GHIN is officially a 9.2 and GG is 8.6 or something like that, I feel like the same "10 handicapper" I was half a year ago. I'm still not that confident that I could become a single digit player. My drives still go all over the place and I pull a lot of my approach shots. Yes, the occasional haphazard birdie happens, but I still feel like I'm a long way away to becoming a truly confident single digit player. While I don't think I'll play worse than my current playing ability, I certainly don't feel anywhere confident that I can play better either. It's like I see every failure on the driving range (of which there are many), as an extra stroke that keeps me from improving all that much. I can't imagine getting better no matter how much more time I put into this game, much less being capable of reaching a goal I haven't already met.

It's also very difficult for me to imagine anyone being confident about reaching a goal they haven't already reached, but that's just me.

If you don't have confidence in yourself then you would never undertake anything challenging.  A single digit handicap is not a scratch golfer, I've seen 10 handicap golfers and 9 handicap golfers I don't see a big difference between their swings and skills.  I have a good instructor that has helped me a lot and I expect to be down to a 15 by the end of the summer.  If I can achieve that then I don't see why single digits aren't possible.  

 

[RFKFREAK]

3 hours ago, Lihu said:

 

When I was a "36 handicap", I had no idea I could become a bogey golfer much less know what is a bogey golfer. I had this strange perception that getting the ball into a hole in 4 shots couldn't be that hard and that led to a lot of frustration. By the time I got to around a 20 handicap (I was assigned a 17.7 handicap on this site at that time), I had no idea if I could get better than that. It seemed like I was playing as good as I could ever play. Then when I got down to a 15, it seemed like that was the best I could play. It continued this way and still continues.

This is kind of where I'm at right now.

My short term goal is to get to a 20, then become a bogey golfer which I understand isn't too far off from that. 

 

3 hours ago, Lihu said:

 

Even though my GHIN is officially a 9.2 and GG is 8.6 or something like that, I feel like the same "10 handicapper" I was half a year ago. I'm still not that confident that I could become a single digit player. My drives still go all over the place and I pull a lot of my approach shots. Yes, the occasional haphazard birdie happens, but I still feel like I'm a long way away to becoming a truly confident single digit player. While I don't think I'll play worse than my current playing ability, I certainly don't feel anywhere confident that I can play better either. It's like I see every failure on the driving range (of which there are many), as an extra stroke that keeps me from improving all that much. I can't imagine getting better no matter how much more time I put into this game, much less being capable of reaching a goal I haven't already met.

It's also very difficult for me to imagine anyone being confident about reaching a goal they haven't already reached, but that's just me.

This I totally disagree with.  Maybe I'm naive, but until it's proven to me that putting in the right work to improve doesn't lead to me improving, then, as far as I'm concerned, the sky's the limit. 

[Valleygolfer]

I'll tell you at the end of the summer.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

If you don't have confidence in yourself then you would never undertake anything challenging.  A single digit handicap is not a scratch golfer, I've seen 10 handicap golfers and 9 handicap golfers I don't see a big difference between their swings and skills.  I have a good instructor that has helped me a lot and I expect to be down to a 15 by the end of the summer.  If I can achieve that then I don't see why single digits aren't possible.  

There isn't until you get in the mid single digits. 8 to 12 are kind of in the mid handicap range.

In answer to @saevel25, what I think are that my rounds recorded in GHIN, GolfLogic and Game golf reflect a better player than I have confidence at playing to on a day to day basis. I think I can score to my handicap at least some of the time, but I've had so many false starts I can't help but be pessimistic. I'll let you know in a year if I've kept my skill level where it is now, but until then I'm not going to claim anything.

[RFKFREAK]

10 minutes ago, Lihu said:

There isn't until you get in the mid single digits. 8 to 12 are kind of in the mid handicap range.

In answer to @saevel25, what I think are that my rounds recorded in GHIN, GolfLogic and Game golf reflect a better player than I have confidence at playing to on a day to day basis. I think I can score to my handicap at least some of the time, but I've had so many false starts I can't help but be pessimistic. I'll let you know in a year if I've kept my skill level where it is now, but until then I'm not going to claim anything.

Yeah, but remember that your handicap is the average of the best 10 out of your last 20 rounds so what it reflects is that some of the time you're going to score to your HC and will include those false starts, too. 

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, RFKFREAK said:

Yeah, but remember that your handicap is the average of the best 10 out of your last 20 rounds so what it reflects is that some of the time you're going to score to your HC and will include those false starts, too. 

True, and I'd rather just tell people I play bogey golf at the beginning of the round just so the expectations are set lower.

[saevel25]

20 minutes ago, Lihu said:

There isn't until you get in the mid single digits. 8 to 12 are kind of in the mid handicap range.

In answer to @saevel25, what I think are that my rounds recorded in GHIN, GolfLogic and Game golf reflect a better player than I have confidence at playing to on a day to day basis. I think I can score to my handicap at least some of the time, but I've had so many false starts I can't help but be pessimistic. I'll let you know in a year if I've kept my skill level where it is now, but until then I'm not going to claim anything.

You are only suppose to beat your handicap 20% of the time, 

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14410

Look at it this way. Your game is good enough to overcome a slow start. Just as you can look at it negatively. I can say, your game is strong enough that most of the time you do well to finish strong such that your handicap is where it should be.