Orlando Gay Night Club Shooting

[saevel25]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

News is that the Orlando shooter was a member of gay dating sites and was a somewhat regular at the Pulse club. His ex-wife claims to have left him for "abuse" and said he had "gay tendencies." Apparently, he was a loner. His father, according to translators, is incoherent. One man says he witnessed his father callhing Mateen gay. Trust a father who claims to be the Afghan President? Does any of this sound somewhat familiar?

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/orlando-shooters-father-i-wont-miss-anything-about-my-son/

It sounds like his dad was a bit crazy. 

 

[newtogolf]

8 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/orlando-shooters-father-i-wont-miss-anything-about-my-son/

It sounds like his dad was a bit crazy. 

 

There's a lot of crazy stuff being reported now, can't be sure what's accurate and what's just bad reporting.  I read today that he fired over 1,000 rounds of ammo.  It's not impossible, but the 1000 rounds and 33 30 round magazines needed to hold the rounds would weigh over 30 lbs not to mention the difficulty of securing that many magazines on ones body.  

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

There's a lot of crazy stuff being reported now, can't be sure what's accurate and what's just bad reporting.  I read today that he fired over 1,000 rounds of ammo.  It's not impossible, but the 1000 rounds and 33 30 round magazines needed to hold the rounds would weigh over 30 lbs not to mention the difficulty of securing that many magazines on ones body.  

Yeah, I'm not exactly trusting news reports regarding "after the fact" stuff. 1000 rounds is kind of pushing the truth a bit. It's probably an anti gun nut trying to make a case or something.

[Mr. Desmond]

43 minutes ago, Lihu said:

It's not a crime to be gay, own guns and be mentally ill.

 

We don't need a larger government to watch over us "better". We just need a means to stop people soon enough when they do commit a crime.

Review your first statement above and  connect them. For example, look at gay, gun, mentally ill, and ask yourself if 2 of those 3 when placed together may cause an issue.  Then add that his work acquaintances claimed he was abusive and was a loner. Add that indications are that he was gay and followed Islam -- makes for a potential wellspring of resentment/hate.

Your second statement is your opinion. My statement asks what is the balance? I also am asking, "How can we do the job better so that the government can assemble all the pieces before the act and not after the act?" If the FBI was interviewing acquaintances, why is all this info only now emerging? Just a rhetorical question for added thought.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Mr. Desmond

[jsgolfer]

Just now, Lihu said:

Yeah, I'm not exactly trusting news reports regarding "after the fact" stuff. 1000 rounds is kind of pushing the truth a bit. It's probably an anti gun nut trying to make a case or something.

And I also have heard a report that the AR-15 isn't the weapon that he used in the attack.  

The rifle used by the Islamist terrorist in Orlando was instead a Sig Sauer MCX carbine, a modular, multi-caliber (able to swap to different calibers, including 5.56 NATO, 300 BLK, and 7.62×39) rifle system that sometimes utilizes STANAG magazines common to more than 60 different firearms, but otherwise has no major parts that interface with AR-15s in any way, shape or form.

Although I haven't been able to find any other outlets corroborating it yet.

[Mr. Desmond]

13 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

There's a lot of crazy stuff being reported now, can't be sure what's accurate and what's just bad reporting.  I read today that he fired over 1,000 rounds of ammo.  It's not impossible, but the 1000 rounds and 33 30 round magazines needed to hold the rounds would weigh over 30 lbs not to mention the difficulty of securing that many magazines on ones body.  

Agree - it is poor reporting because the irresponsible are in a rush for ratings and/or hits on a website.

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Review your first statement above and  connect them. For example, look at gay, gun, mentally ill, and ask yourself if 2 of those 3 when placed together may cause an issue.  Then add that his work acquaintances claimed he was abusive and was a loner. Add that indications are that he was gay and followed Islam -- makes for a potential wellspring of resentment/hate.

Your second statement is your opinion. My statement asks what is the balance? I also am asking, "How can we do the job better so that the government can assemble all the pieces before the act and not after the act?" If the FBI was interviewing acquaintances, why is all this info only now emerging? Just a rhetorical question for added thought.

We are all spouting our opinions. No one better than any other. This is a difficult situation, and there is and was no easy solution.

You can't stop someone from exercising his first and second amendment rights even if they are mentally ill. Unless, they committed felonies in the past there is no way for us to legally prevent him from exercising those rights.

 

[Gunther]

I just hope this terrorist isn't going to be protected by the media as a victim.  Already there's more vitriol here and in the media towards Trump than towards this aszhole.  

There are currently something like 900 active ISIS investigations on-going in this country.  Not sure what is involved in an active investigation but it doesn't surprise me someone slipped through the cracks.

I don't have the answers, except that more gun control will not solve this problem.

 

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

And I also have heard a report that the AR-15 isn't the weapon that he used in the attack.  

The rifle used by the Islamist terrorist in Orlando was instead a Sig Sauer MCX carbine, a modular, multi-caliber (able to swap to different calibers, including 5.56 NATO, 300 BLK, and 7.62×39) rifle system that sometimes utilizes STANAG magazines common to more than 60 different firearms, but otherwise has no major parts that interface with AR-15s in any way, shape or form.

Although I haven't been able to find any other outlets corroborating it yet.

I saw the same thing, but when non-gun people see a gun with rails they automatically assume AR-15.  I've also read reports that witnesses claim they saw someone with a 3" bullet in their leg, which is definitely not a .223 or 5.56 round.  There are other reports emerging that someone was holding doors and gates closed so people couldn't escape.  

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

And I also have heard a report that the AR-15 isn't the weapon that he used in the attack.  

The rifle used by the Islamist terrorist in Orlando was instead a Sig Sauer MCX carbine, a modular, multi-caliber (able to swap to different calibers, including 5.56 NATO, 300 BLK, and 7.62×39) rifle system that sometimes utilizes STANAG magazines common to more than 60 different firearms, but otherwise has no major parts that interface with AR-15s in any way, shape or form.

Although I haven't been able to find any other outlets corroborating it yet.

I own a variant of this, and am pretty sure that 1000 rounds although possible is not really probable. The barrel gets hot and 30 rounds per clip could jam. The side mounted gas ejector could also fail.

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I own a variant of this, and am pretty sure that 1000 rounds although possible is not really probable. The barrel gets hot and 30 rounds per clip could jam. The side mounted gas ejector could also fail.

They have also said he fired over 20 rounds in 9 seconds which isn't impossible for an AR-15 but that firing speed and number of rounds requires very high quality components and someone who is really familiar with the gun.  

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

They have also said he fired over 20 rounds in 9 seconds which isn't impossible for an AR-15 but that firing speed and number of rounds requires very high quality components and someone who is really familiar with the gun.  

I agree that an off the shelf anything even a Sig might not perform that reliably. However, the fact that he was that deadly to the number of shots fired indicates some kind of training. He might have modified critical components himself?

One could argue that it was the training that made him that deadly and not just owning the assault style rifle.

[newtogolf]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I agree that an off the shelf anything even a Sig might not perform that reliably. However, the fact that he was that deadly to the number of shots fired indicates some kind of training. He might have modified critical components himself?

One could argue that it was the training that made him that deadly and not just owning the assault style rifle.

Gun Stuff

I thought the opposite, if he fired 1000 rounds, he missed a lot.  .223 or 5.56 is high velocity ammo, at close distance a human body isn't stopping a round unless it hits a large bone Combine this with the reports that he fired at large groups trying to get out of exits is inconsistent with him having much training.  I'm beginning to think it wasn't an AR-15 and was likely a Sig set up to shoot 9mm rounds.  

 

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

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I thought the opposite, if he fired 1000 rounds, he missed a lot.  .223 or 5.56 is high velocity ammo, at close distance a human body isn't stopping a round unless it hits a large bone Combine this with the reports that he fired at large groups trying to get out of exits is inconsistent with him having much training.  I'm beginning to think it wasn't an AR-15 and was likely a Sig set up to shoot 9mm rounds.  

 

Yeah, it's possible he was using a carbine style gun instead? I tried looking it up, but there are all kinds of reports. Difficult to tell which ones are correct.

In one report, he did use a 9mm hand gun in addition the whatever else he had.

[Braivo]

42 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

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I thought the opposite, if he fired 1000 rounds, he missed a lot.  .223 or 5.56 is high velocity ammo, at close distance a human body isn't stopping a round unless it hits a large bone Combine this with the reports that he fired at large groups trying to get out of exits is inconsistent with him having much training.  I'm beginning to think it wasn't an AR-15 and was likely a Sig set up to shoot 9mm rounds.  

 

I was reading over the weekend that an average shooter uses 23 rounds per kill, this was confirmed by military personell as well. Most speculated that there had to be a second shooter or there was a lot of friendly fire fatalities from police. It would be near impossible for this one guy to carry enough ammo to do this much damage. 

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, Braivo said:

I was reading over the weekend that an average shooter uses 23 rounds per kill, this was confirmed by military personell as well. Most speculated that there had to be a second shooter or there was a lot of friendly fire fatalities from police. It would be near impossible for this one guy to carry enough ammo to do this much damage. 

That's long range and with automatic weapons.  This was a club with over 200 people in it that were bunched in tight groups.  It still doesn't explain the reports of over 1000 rounds fired by the shooter.  I wouldn't be shocked if some of the deaths were the result of friendly fire.  

[Braivo]

Just now, newtogolf said:

That's long range and with automatic weapons.  This was a club with over 200 people in it that were bunched in tight groups.  It still doesn't explain the reports of over 1000 rounds fired by the shooter.  I wouldn't be shocked if some of the deaths were the result of friendly fire.  

Probably the most frustrating part is the lack of information from authorities and media. They know what happened long ago. They knew about the gay dating apps days ago. You don't think there was FBI all over this guy's every digital account within 3 hours of the shooting? The way they control the flow of information alters our perception of what happened. 

[newtogolf]

4 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Probably the most frustrating part is the lack of information from authorities and media. They know what happened long ago. They knew about the gay dating apps days ago. You don't think there was FBI all over this guy's every digital account within 3 hours of the shooting? The way they control the flow of information alters our perception of what happened. 

We'll be fed the information they want to fit the narrative they want told.  Obama in his book spoke out against the way our government treated the Japanese in our country after Pearl Harbor and pledged to Muslims that he'd side with them should situations warrant it to avoid a similar situation happening again with them.  I also believe that is why he refuses to say Radical Islam or similar phrases.