Attending the Flagstick

[Golfingdad]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

From the start I've pointed out that anyone may be asked to attend the flagstick. You can't penalize or DQ a spectator.

The RoG have to work in every situation. Playing alone or on the PGA Tour.

But the decision is specific to FCs or opponents, so I'm confused as to why you keep bringing up the other people?

 

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

In part that's because they habitually pass the flagstick on the the caddie of the next player to play.  They never lay it on the ground like we casual players do.  Sometimes they just leave it in the hole in case the next guy also wants it attended, other times they hand it over to the next guy's caddie.  

If the flagstick has been freed from the socket, it doesn't really matter when it's removed as long as the ball doesn't strike it.  In my own play, if I'm attending the flagstick for another player, I may leave it in the hole after he putts if there is another player who might need it attended.  I'll step away briefly until the next guy is about ready to putt, then step up and attend or remove it for him.

There is an etiquette to attending the flagstick.  I learned much of it back in the stone age during the one summer that I caddied at an exclusive yacht club.  The instruction I got from the caddie master has served me well, even though I didn't start playing golf for years after that.

The other thing you do (probably already mentioned in this thread) is to check and make sure the pin isn't stuck BEFORE the player hits his putt.

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

But the decision is specific to FCs or opponents, so I'm confused as to why you keep bringing up the other people?

I understand that in your mind the discussion may have only ever been about FCs and opponents, but in my second post in this topic, I mentioned that the flagstick attendant could be anyone, including a spectator. I took "that's a really lame rule" as the broader "penalizing the guy hitting the putt instead of the guy attending the flag." I did not take it as the very specific "penalizing the guy hitting the putt only when an FC or opponent is attending the flag and doesn't do anything deliberate."

As you know, the Rules of Golf must contend with all possibilities, not just FCs and opponents.

29 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

The other thing you do (probably already mentioned in this thread) is to check and make sure the pin isn't stuck BEFORE the player hits his putt.

I think @Fourputt said it earlier, but I set the end of the flagstick on the side or edge - I don't leave it in the female end of the cup. It's "loose" the whole time so I know it'll be easy to take out. It's already effectively "out" as I stand there holding it.

[Golfingdad]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

I understand that in your mind the discussion may have only ever been about FCs and opponents, but in my second post in this topic, I mentioned that the flagstick attendant could be anyone, including a spectator. I took "that's a really lame rule" as the broader "penalizing the guy hitting the putt instead of the guy attending the flag." I did not take it as the very specific "penalizing the guy hitting the putt only when an FC or opponent is attending the flag and doesn't do anything deliberate."

But I have reiterated several times on here, and even posted the decision to clarify that my "lame" comment only refers to when FCs or opponents are the ones attending the flag.  I believe that I have been quite clear on that.

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think @Fourputt said it earlier, but I set the end of the flagstick on the side or edge - I don't leave it in the female end of the cup. It's "loose" the whole time so I know it'll be easy to take out. It's already effectively "out" as I stand there holding it.

Yeah, I think a lot of people do that, but I feel like I might be messing up the other person by showing him something other than the center of the hole, so I just twist it a few times, make sure it's nice and loose.  Also, as soon as he hits it, I start removing it, just in case it's stuck again, so I have extra time to get it out.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

But I have reiterated several times on here, and even posted the decision to clarify that my "lame" comment only refers to when FCs or opponents are the ones attending the flag.  I believe that I have been quite clear on that.

We'll have to disagree slightly on the clarity of it, because "that rule" to me means 17 or 17-3, not Decision 17-3/2. That combines with the fact that I'm trying to read and respond to things a bit too quickly, and have two instances now in the last week where I'm guilty of such.

I still don't think 17-3/2 is lame, either.  I think it's pretty clear, though again… it never really happens. But it likely did at one point, which is why it's in there… And your FC could want to help you. It's rare, but it can happen.

2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Yeah, I think a lot of people do that, but I feel like I might be messing up the other person by showing him something other than the center of the hole, so I just twist it a few times, make sure it's nice and loose.  Also, as soon as he hits it, I start removing it, just in case it's stuck again, so I have extra time to get it out.

Technically I could still be showing him where the center of the hole is, because the flagstick itself could cross "ground level" above the geometric center of the hole.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I still don't think 17-3/2 is lame, either.  I think it's pretty clear, though again… it never really happens. But it likely did at one point, which is why it's in there… And your FC could want to help you. It's rare, but it can happen.

Agreed that it never really happens - but just for the exercise ... the decision already requires intent to somehow be proven when the FC or opponent tries to "deliberately" cause you a penalty so it seems it would be easy to expand that to include that he couldn't "deliberately" help you either.

But that said, we're talking about the ball hitting the flagstick on its way into the hole, and (by my revision) you'd have to replay the stroke.  In my book, forcing you to re-make a putt you already made isn't exactly helping you. 

[GolfLug]

13 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Agreed that it never really happens - but just for the exercise ... the decision already requires intent to somehow be proven when the FC or opponent tries to "deliberately" cause you a penalty so it seems it would be easy to expand that to include that he couldn't "deliberately" help you either.

But that said, we're talking about the ball hitting the flagstick on its way into the hole, and (by my revision) you'd have to replay the stroke.  In my book, forcing you to re-make a putt you already made isn't exactly helping you. 

but hey, at least you know the line now, eh?