Respect (Or Lack Thereof) for Singles/Walkers

[Fourputt]

31 minutes ago, schuff said:

The course I play lets a few singles tee off up to thirty minutes before the first tee time depending on sunrise.

Everyone in the clubhouse knows us and we all play single so we can knock out 18 in 2 hours and go to work. 

We generally start teeing off at 5:30am and wave the flag to signal the next guy. The first tee time is 6am.

So the other day I'm the last single out and am standing on the blue tee box. 4 seniors go straight to the senior tees on their carts at 5:45am just as the guy ahead of me reaches the green. They yell back "we have the first tee time." I explain we go before the first tee time so groups aren't hawked down by singles all morning and they get irate. 

While I'm explaining two of them have already teed off. So I go back to the blue tee box and tee off driving my ball right over their tee box while they are still on the tee box waiting for the last guy. 

I drive past them and don't say a word and finish out the 18. When I get back the head pro told me they were so upset that the first tee time didn't go first that they left. 

Not an issue at my home course.  The first tee time is always at sunrise and nobody goes out before that.  The green mowers and hole cutters go out ½ hour before sunrise, and they need that much time to get well ahead of the first group on each side.  

For the first hour and a half, we take 9 hole reservations on the back 9, so anyone trying to race around for 18 holes on the first tee time is almost sure to run into a delay on 10, because the reservations have precedence (the 9 hole reservations don't always fill up, so that's hit or miss how fast we get them out of the way).  It's calculated to be sure that the 10th tee is open when the first 18 hole foursome makes the turn.  Since the most of the 18 hole groups are foursomes right from the first tee time, it's rarely a problem.

[jkelley9]

2 hours ago, schuff said:

The course I play lets a few singles tee off up to thirty minutes before the first tee time depending on sunrise.

Everyone in the clubhouse knows us and we all play single so we can knock out 18 in 2 hours and go to work. 

We generally start teeing off at 5:30am and wave the flag to signal the next guy. The first tee time is 6am.

So the other day I'm the last single out and am standing on the blue tee box. 4 seniors go straight to the senior tees on their carts at 5:45am just as the guy ahead of me reaches the green. They yell back "we have the first tee time." I explain we go before the first tee time so groups aren't hawked down by singles all morning and they get irate. 

While I'm explaining two of them have already teed off. So I go back to the blue tee box and tee off driving my ball right over their tee box while they are still on the tee box waiting for the last guy. 

I drive past them and don't say a word and finish out the 18. When I get back the head pro told me they were so upset that the first tee time didn't go first that they left. 

Wow that's pretty cool :) I never even thought about really early rounds before work. Maybe knocking out 9 holes. I have no idea if any courses around me have this setup but I'm definitely going to ask now! :)

Although me telling my wife this "hey honey, it turns out I can wake up at 5am and play a quick 9 holes before work" would most assuredly result in a resounding "THAT'S IT, YOU'RE OBSESSED, I'M USING MY VETO. YOU'RE BANNED FROM GOLF <my first name> <middle name> <last name>" lol 

[gregsandiego]

12 hours ago, Fourputt said:

You are really full of yourself, aren't you?  You have experience in one tiny part of the world and you want to impose your minuscule knowledge of the golf industry on everyone else.  You need to step back and relax.

 

I am pretty relaxed. But what do you mean "tiny part of the world"?

And it's an open forum to discuss golf, so what do you mean "impose" ?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, gregsandiego said:

But what do you mean "tiny part of the world"?

Really? Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

Things are not the same at every course (or most courses, I'd think) as seems to be the rule at the few courses with which you're familiar.

[gregsandiego]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Really? Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

Things are not the same at every course (or most courses, I'd think) as seems to be the rule at the few courses with which you're familiar.

Oh so it was a poorly formed metaphor. Excuse me for reacting to that rude comment.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

Oh so it was a poorly formed metaphor. Excuse me for reacting to that rude comment.

It wasn't really very rude. You're making sweeping generalizations about how golf is everywhere else in the country.

[gregsandiego]

Just now, iacas said:

It wasn't really very rude. You're making sweeping generalizations about how golf is everywhere else in the country.

Where exactly did I extrapolate my anecdotal experience to the whole country?

And if you guys want to play as singles - FINE! I think it messes up traffic flow - that's all. If you think it doesn't OK. I guess I've made my point as far as I can make it.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

Where exactly did I extrapolate my anecdotal experience to the whole country?

Really?

Cuz here's the first one that sprang to mind.

23 hours ago, gregsandiego said:

It sure seems like I have the minority opinion here. Me and the guys that seem to run golf courses that is.

You've not talked to anywhere close to the majority of "the guys that seem to run golf courses."

4 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

And if you guys want to play as singles - FINE! I think it messes up traffic flow - that's all. If you think it doesn't OK. I guess I've made my point as far as I can make it.

That's not all you've said. There's the bit about how the single golfer is using more "resources" or takes longer to play two balls and thus messes up the pacing… Despite contrary posts that point out that a single staying in place messes up the flow less than a threesome or foursome in the same slot.

[gregsandiego]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

You've not talked to anywhere close to the majority of "the guys that seem to run golf courses."

I never claimed anything of the sort. 

[Patch]

There was a course I use play at (Desert Rose) that let singles go off the 10th hole first thing in the morning. Usually from sun up to an hour past sun up. 

They had some parameters in place however. You had to be a walker. It cost $15. You could only play 9 holes. 

Part of the $15 covered a breakfast, and beverage after your 9 hole round. If you wanted to play the front 9, it was another $15 ($20 with a cart), and you would be placed with a twosome, or threesome. If there was an opening, singles from the early bird back 9 could go out as a group, which is what usually happened. 

This went on for a couple of years, and worked quite well. What stopped it was home owners on the course walking the back 9 with out paying. They'd climb over their back yard fence, ( if they had one)  drop a ball, and start playing. 

[Pretzel]

Honestly as someone who works in the pro shop and as a starter (one and the same at my course), I really like it when singles come to the course so long as they don't expect a tee time all to themselves. They're easy to work into almost any tee sheet besides a full one meaning you don't have to worry about them coming up and asking if they'll be able to go soon over and over again like a group of two or three. 

That said, I only take issue with a single golfer if they insist on playing alone. We have several people with memberships that we can accommodate such a request for, since they paid for a full membership and we try to take care of them as best we can, but for a walk-on golfer during a busier period that generally can't be done. 

I've seen a couple groups try to boot a single that I've paired them with but it's pretty easy to fix if you see it happen. If they just seem to be casually ignoring the other golfer I like to get on the microphone between their tee shots to announce, "Now up on the number one tee is the 'Oblivious' group joined by the unfortunate single" as a little reminder. If they're being openly rude or mean I'll wait until the mean ones are in the middle of a swing before calling out, "Now up on the number one tee is the unfortunate single, following them will be the douchebag group". This way the single has the option of avoiding the people who were creating conflict if they don't want to join up with them, but it also leaves an opportunity for them to be paired without the single being shoved aside.

[Fourputt]

11 hours ago, gregsandiego said:

Where exactly did I extrapolate my anecdotal experience to the whole country?

And if you guys want to play as singles - FINE! I think it messes up traffic flow - that's all. If you think it doesn't OK. I guess I've made my point as far as I can make it.

Please explain how you think that a single playing in a regularly scheduled tee slot "messes up traffic flow".  I see this stated from time to time and it really makes no sense at all.  The only one who is negatively affected is the single who has to spend more time waiting on the foursome in front of him than he does actually playing golf.  Some guys don't seem to be bothered by it, but I hate being in that situation.

A single playing alone during a busy time would be unusual most places I'm familiar with, not because it is prohibited, but because shorthanded groups will typically be condensed with each other as the reservations are being made during the week, or by walkon players that day.  However, I had instances where I had only one single walkon on the waiting list when a foursome cancelled or no-showed, so if he wanted it, he got the slot.  Would I have preferred to fill that slot with more players?  Sure, but if the bodies aren't available, then I'm not about to let a tee time pass completely unused when I have a player (and a green fee) waiting.

[RFKFREAK]

10 hours ago, gregsandiego said:

I never claimed anything of the sort. 

Really?

On 7/31/2016 at 11:46 PM, gregsandiego said:

It sure seems like I have the minority opinion here. Me and the guys that seem to run golf courses that is.

Do they allow singles to play 2 balls?

Do they routinely allow singles to go off during the day?

 

As I answered before ,yes me and the guys that run golf courses.

 

[gregsandiego]

13 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Please explain how you think that a single playing in a regularly scheduled tee slot "messes up traffic flow".  

I'm talking about the case where he asks or is offered to "play through". That causes a delay for the foursome while he plays through.

Now picture your are in a foursome with multiple single behind you - multiple delays.

[Pretzel]

37 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

I'm talking about the case where he asks or is offered to "play through". That causes a delay for the foursome while he plays through.

Now picture your are in a foursome with multiple single behind you - multiple delays.

If a single plays through a group of four it will ultimately lead to less congestion on the course since the single is now occupying a position on the course that would otherwise be free. The group behind the single will not catch up to the group of four the single passed unless they were riding his tail, since there should now be a gap behind the group of four.

The only people that it affects are the single who's playing through and the group of four who is waiting briefly. The single gets to cruise through instead of waiting for a long time while the group of four sits for less than five minutes while the single golfer clears the landing area of the tee shots.

It's a delay no longer than what happens when the beer cart passes that same foursome and they all go to purchase beverages. They also are not required to let the single through if they would be overly irritated by such a delay.

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, gregsandiego said:

I'm talking about the case where he asks or is offered to "play through". That causes a delay for the foursome while he plays through.

Now picture your are in a foursome with multiple single behind you - multiple delays.

Once again, on the courses where I play most of my golf, there would never be a string of singles, because the starter would group them up wherever possible.  You seem to be making some odd assumptions and postulating some mostly unlikely hypothetical scenarios.  If I saw a couple of singles coming up behind, I'd suggest to them that they join up and take it easy instead of messing with everyone else's day.  This would generally be because there would be no significant opening in front of us anyway, so them playing through isn't normally going to be an option.

[gregsandiego]

7 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Once again, on the courses where I play most of my golf, there would never be a string of singles, because the starter would group them up wherever possible.

THEN IT'S POINTLESS TO DISCUSS THE QUESTION.

 You seem to be making some odd assumptions and postulating some mostly unlikely hypothetical scenarios.  If I saw a couple of singles coming up behind, I'd suggest to them that they join up and take it easy instead of messing with everyone else's day.  This would generally be because there would be no significant opening in front of us anyway, so them playing through isn't normally going to be an option.

Yes, maybe odd assumptions. But without an actual study one way to solve these is a thought experiment of the extremes.

You asked me to explain how singles mess up traffic flow, then you answer by saying we'd solve it by eliminating those singles? And even use the phrase "messing with everyone' else's day". Sounds like you agree with me. What is the argument here?

 

 

[Fourputt]

40 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

Yes, maybe odd assumptions. But without an actual study one way to solve these is a thought experiment of the extremes.

You asked me to explain how singles mess up traffic flow, then you answer by saying we'd solve it by eliminating those singles? And even use the phrase "messing with everyone' else's day". Sounds like you agree with me. What is the argument here?

 

 

You keep changing your hypothetical, and that forces me to change my answer.  In 40 years of playing and during the 5 years that I worked as a starter, I never saw a string of singles that tried to play through a foursome in succession.  So I stipulate that you are just making things up in an attempt to validate a questionable hypothesis.

In the far more likely scenario of a lone single playing a busy course (in which case he stays in his position and deals with the inevitable waits), or even playing on a less crowded course where he might play through one or two groups, he does little or nothing to affect the overall flow on the golf course.  

A single can play through a foursome without delaying them at all when it's done correctly.  They all play one hole together, the single putts out as soon as they reach the green, then he tees off on the next hole while they are still putting.  By the time they are ready to play from the next tee, he is hitting his second shot and moves out of range.  No noticeable delay, no disruption of the overall pace on the course.