4th Provisional ball, what stroke am I on?

[Ernest Jones]

The cardiovascular stroke. 

[DaveP043]

12 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

The cardiovascular stroke. 

Go to 1:33

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Golfz said:

So I would take an 8 on the scorecard as my handicap is between 20-29? 

Just a little nitpicking for clarity here ... your scorecard would/could still say 14, but your "net" for the hole for posting (if its a reportable round), due to the Equitable Stroke Control rules would be an 8.

31 minutes ago, Gunther said:

This was a par 5. Hcap of 9 or less would be double, which is 7.  Shouldn't he add 1 to 8 (being a 20+) and actually take a 9 or a quad?

@CarlSpackler already answered, but I kind of agree with what you're saying here, just in the sense that it's kind of odd that a 9 course handicap can only report a double on a par 3 and then a 10 must report a quad.

They've done their math, I'm sure, but it just seems strange.

I wonder how different handicaps would be if they changed it to be consistent?  Either absolutes all the way, so <9 can only take a 6 on any hole, or change 10-19 to be triples on any hole and 20-29 to be quads on any hole.

 

[CarlSpackler]

11 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Just a little nitpicking for clarity here ... your scorecard would/could still say 14, but your "net" for the hole for posting (if its a reportable round), due to the Equitable Stroke Control rules would be an 8.

@CarlSpackler already answered, but I kind of agree with what you're saying here, just in the sense that it's kind of odd that a 9 course handicap can only report a double on a par 3 and then a 10 must report a quad.

They've done their math, I'm sure, but it just seems strange.

I wonder how different handicaps would be if they changed it to be consistent?  Either absolutes all the way, so <9 can only take a 6 on any hole, or change 10-19 to be triples on any hole and 20-29 to be quads on any hole.

 

It does seem weird, but it kind of makes sense too. A mid to high HC is more likely to blow up on a par 5 than a par 3. Not saying they can't plop a few in the drink on a par 3, but overall, it's most likely going to happen on the big hole that requires more shots with more opportunity to mishit one. Putting in the absolute ESC score helps to keep a bad par 5 from really running up your score and increasing your handicap. Once you make it to the single digits, it becomes more important to prevent any hole from hurting your handicap too much, hence the double bogey limit.

[DaveP043]

2 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I wonder how different handicaps would be if they changed it to be consistent?  Either absolutes all the way, so <9 can only take a 6 on any hole, or change 10-19 to be triples on any hole and 20-29 to be quads on any hole.

The old (pre 1993) ESC was a bit more complicated, but was graduated stroke-by stroke in relation to handicap.  From http://www.ongolfhandicaps.com/2013/02/what-does-new-equitable-stroke-control.html

Course Handicap	Limitation on Hole Score
Plus or Scratch	Limit of one over par on any hole.
1 through 18	Limit of two over par on number of holes equal to Course Handicap.  Limit of one over par on balance of holes.
19 through 36	Limit of three over par on as many holes as course handicap exceeds 18 strokes. Limit of two over par on balance of holes.
37 through 54	Limit of four over par on as many holes as the Course Handicap exceeds 36 strokes.  Limit of three over par on balance of holes.

I don't know that the current system is any more accurate, but its certainly a lot less complicated.

[CarlSpackler]

6 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The old (pre 1993) ESC was a bit more complicated, but was graduated stroke-by stroke in relation to handicap.  From http://www.ongolfhandicaps.com/2013/02/what-does-new-equitable-stroke-control.html

Course Handicap	Limitation on Hole Score
Plus or Scratch	Limit of one over par on any hole.
1 through 18	Limit of two over par on number of holes equal to Course Handicap.  Limit of one over par on balance of holes.
19 through 36	Limit of three over par on as many holes as course handicap exceeds 18 strokes. Limit of two over par on balance of holes.
37 through 54	Limit of four over par on as many holes as the Course Handicap exceeds 36 strokes.  Limit of three over par on balance of holes.

I don't know that the current system is any more accurate, but its certainly a lot less complicated.

Most definitely. 

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

The old (pre 1993) ESC was a bit more complicated, but was graduated stroke-by stroke in relation to handicap.  From http://www.ongolfhandicaps.com/2013/02/what-does-new-equitable-stroke-control.html

Course Handicap	Limitation on Hole Score
Plus or Scratch	Limit of one over par on any hole.
1 through 18	Limit of two over par on number of holes equal to Course Handicap.  Limit of one over par on balance of holes.
19 through 36	Limit of three over par on as many holes as course handicap exceeds 18 strokes. Limit of two over par on balance of holes.
37 through 54	Limit of four over par on as many holes as the Course Handicap exceeds 36 strokes.  Limit of three over par on balance of holes.

I don't know that the current system is any more accurate, but its certainly a lot less complicated.

Interesting.  If I'm reading that right, it's saying that if I play to a CH of 5, then I'm allowed 5 ESC doubles and then ESC of bogey for the remaining 13.  That wouldn't change my handicap one iota.  I could not tell you the last time I had more than 5 doubles or higher.  I could tell you, though, that whenever it was, it was long enough ago that the number wouldn't apply.  I would have had a CH of 7 or 8 or 9 or higher at the time.

Further, it still wouldn't affect the handicap because a score like that is never going to play into the calculation.  I can see why they went ahead and simplified it. :)

(Also, that chart answers the question that been asked enough recently of What is scratch? ... Clearly, it's playing to a CH of zero.) 

[DaveP043]

Just now, Golfingdad said:

Further, it still wouldn't affect the handicap because a score like that is never going to play into the calculation.  I can see why they went ahead and simplified it. :)

From what I read, less than 25% of the players who kept a handicap were able to consistently use the old ESC system properly, so some simplification was definitely in order.  Additionally, the change in ESC systems caused only minimal changes to the handicap of players.  From:

http://www.popeofslope.com/guidelines/jury.html

a study of over half a million golfers found that:

• Single-digit handicappers went down one-tenth of a stroke on average,
• Handicaps of 10 to 29 went up less than half a stroke, and,
• Golfers with handicaps above 30 went up about one full stroke

[Gunther]

10 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Interesting.  If I'm reading that right, it's saying that if I play to a CH of 5, then I'm allowed 5 ESC doubles and then ESC of bogey for the remaining 13.  That wouldn't change my handicap one iota.  I could not tell you the last time I had more than 5 doubles or higher.  I could tell you, though, that whenever it was, it was long enough ago that the number wouldn't apply.  I would have had a CH of 7 or 8 or 9 or higher at the time.

Further, it still wouldn't affect the handicap because a score like that is never going to play into the calculation.  I can see why they went ahead and simplified it. :)

(Also, that chart answers the question that been asked enough recently of What is scratch? ... Clearly, it's playing to a CH of zero.) 

That is complex.  So, I'm an 8.9 right now.  I would have to make 9 doubles or worse, that I would enter as +2 each.  For any subsequent double, I would enter +1?  Glad they simplified it but I don't think I've made 10 doubles in a round, that I recall but may have made 6 or 7 when I was a 5 or 6, where this approach might have applied.  Much easier now.

[Golfingdad]

9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

 

• Single-digit handicappers went down one-tenth of a stroke on average,

I have, admittedly, not read the article you linked, but even this seems too high.

4 minutes ago, Gunther said:

That is complex.  So, I'm an 8.9 right now.  I would have to make 9 doubles or worse, that I would enter as +2 each.  For any subsequent double, I would enter +1?  Glad they simplified it but I don't think I've made 10 doubles in a round, that I recall but may have made 6 or 7 when I was a 5 or 6, where this approach might have applied.  Much easier now.

So that time that you made 6 as a 5, and you maybe played OK the rest of the round, you are still probably a couple over par, so you're talking about a +14 or +15 round for posting.  How many people out there have a ~6 index with a ~14 differential included in that calculation?

[Gunther]

30 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I have, admittedly, not read the article you linked, but even this seems too high.

So that time that you made 6 as a 5, and you maybe played OK the rest of the round, you are still probably a couple over par, so you're talking about a +14 or +15 round for posting.  How many people out there have a ~6 index with a ~14 differential included in that calculation?

Took me a sec on the uptake cuz I'm thinking while I was a 5 or 6, I'm sure I had plenty of +14 or +15 rounds.

You're asking how many would be top 10 of the last 20, which would put them into the calculation.  Yes, I agree, I would guess that it almost couldn't happen.

[Wally Fairway]

I hope that isn't the last ball in your bag, homes