Presidential Candidates Debate

[Chilli Dipper]

Kaine spent more time attacking Trump than discussing the issues; Pence made up a completely different platform than the one his running mate is campaigning on. Not sure what to make of the VP debate.

[newtogolf]

10 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Kaine spent more time attacking Trump than discussing the issues; Pence made up a completely different platform than the one his running mate is campaigning on. Not sure what to make of the VP debate.

Aside from his position on abortion, I wish Pence was running for POTUS.  Kaine was obnoxious, he was basically a 90 minute Hillary slash and trash ad.  

[Dave2512]

Kaine appeared to be working from a script meant to irritate Trump, chumming for Twitter rants rather than debating. 

[rkim291968]

2 hours ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Kaine spent more time attacking Trump than discussing the issues; Pence made up a completely different platform than the one his running mate is campaigning on. Not sure what to make of the VP debate.

IMHO, at the end of the day, this debate has very little impact although Pence's not defending Trump's words/positions can give HC's camp something to use for future debates & ads.   Pence looked like he wants to preserve his future post Trump's defeat.   

[imsys0042]

8 hours ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Kaine spent more time attacking Trump than discussing the issues; Pence made up a completely different platform than the one his running mate is campaigning on. Not sure what to make of the VP debate.

It was....odd...to say the least.   I pretty much agree with your take.   I am disappointed in Kaine.   I don't think he is suited to the role of attack dog.   The moderator did not do a great job either.   Either let the candidates get away with not responding or cut them off at certain points.

In the end, Pence got the better of the debate.  I wonder how many "Kaine interrupted" memes are floating around on twitter today.

[newtogolf]

A rational person cannot defend some of the ridiculous statements Trump has made in the past and trying to do so would only discredit them.  

The left is also completely blowing out of proportion what Trump has said about "women" versus Rosie O'Donnell and a ex beauty queen who at the time he made those statements were in media wars with Trump.  Just about every negative quote Kaine made regarding Trump was taken out of context, it would have been impossible time wise for Pence to go back, quote by quote and set the appropriate context for the statement Trump made, nor would it be worth his time.  

Trump is running this campaign under the false belief that there's no such thing as bad publicity.  He believes he won the Primaries by keeping his name in the headlines and as the first story on broadcast news.  To some degree it may have helped him win the nomination but it's killing him in the general election.  

Pence and his campaign manager can only spin doctor so much.  For Trump to have a chance to win the general election he needs to ban himself from posting on all social media and perform much better in the next debate

[imsys0042]

45 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Pence and his campaign manager can only spin doctor so much.  For Trump to have a chance to win the general election he needs to ban himself from posting on all social media and perform much better in the next debate

He has toned down the orange spray tan, but social media?  Never, ever!   He's addicted!!  I think he'd give up eating before not posting on Twitter.   Someone would have to wrestle him to the ground, take his devices away and then tell him to put his big head down on the desk.

[CarlSpackler]

I'm wondering if anyone has changed their vote based on the either of the debates.

[Dave2512]

First one maybe last night no. 

[newtogolf]

 

22 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I'm wondering if anyone has changed their vote based on the either of the debates.

I was pretty impressed with Pence, until the last question.  I'll never understand why Republicans insist on bringing up abortion, it's a always a lose topic for them.  Even though Pence called out partial birth abortions specifically I'm pretty sure the majority of women only heard "abortion".  

I agreed with Kaine, specific religious beliefs need to be left at home so you can properly represent those that elected you who may not share your faith or beliefs.  

[GolfLug]

4 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I'm wondering if anyone has changed their vote based on the either of the debates.

Nope. The debate seemed like an exchange between reporters that were fighting for air time. Pence came out a bit ahead IMO. But.... no sway.

I am still preparing for at least one more term of Obama type extension. I do not harbor the morbid hate that some have for Trump based on the faces he makes. Only god knows what kind of faces Hillary makes when she is not on camera. Or any of us, for that matter.

But I have young kids at home and no stomach for a complete outsider/no experience gamble for the next 3 terms no matter what is on the table. It is a safer bet that things will not change drastically if HC gets in office. For me, this is a huge qualifier.

All I can personally attest to is that I have been in the work force for 18 years and have steadily progressed from strength to strength through 2 Democratic and 1 Republican administrations and believe that fundamentally the country has maintained still, it's status as the greatest nation on earth. It is not perfect.... far from it, but relatively speaking there is every indication that the march forward continues for us. I guess that is the fundamental disagreement I have with DT or anyone else who believes we are on our way to hell.

Again, I am simply not up for a gamble that Trump represents (absolutely nothing to do with his personality or off handed manner). Maybe once we are empty nesters I would feel braver in even thinking about it.  

[drmevo]

6 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

 

I was pretty impressed with Pence, until the last question.  I'll never understand why Republicans insist on bringing up abortion, it's a always a lose topic for them.  Even though Pence called out partial birth abortions specifically I'm pretty sure the majority of women only heard "abortion".  

I agreed with Kaine, specific religious beliefs need to be left at home so you can properly represent those that elected you who may not share your faith or beliefs.  

I don't understand that either. He's not flipping anyone to his side with that line of argument, but I guess you could say that for a lot of things. Also, I'm pretty sure most people, including HRC and a huge majority of liberals, are not in favor of allowing late-term or partial-birth abortions except in the rarest of cases where both lives are at stake.

I only caught some of it but saw some highlights and recaps.  I think the consensus is, Pence won in terms of being a better debater, getting his points across, and not letting Kaine land many blows, but he also seemed to stray from some of Trump's well-documented positions. A lot of pundits pointed out the same thing @rkim291968 said, which is that there may have been some self-preservation going on there.

[Elmer]

Interesting article on last nights VP Debate,

Kaine was meant to make things stick to trump
Pence makes a better POTUS candidate than DT!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/10/05/daily-202-pence-wins-trump-loses-in-vice-presidential-debate/57f44ae3e9b69b05924301ec/

 

 

[imsys0042]

3 hours ago, CarlSpackler said:

I'm wondering if anyone has changed their vote based on the either of the debates.

Usually there is some percentage of the population who is undecided and the debates help.   However they also serve another purpose.  Political campaigns are largely echo chambers now and the debates are the rare opportunities where candidates are challenged in a forum they don't control.  If they make a telling mistake it can turn non-tribal voters off and change votes.

 

[Chilli Dipper]

4 hours ago, drmevo said:

I only caught some of it but saw some highlights and recaps.  I think the consensus is, Pence won in terms of being a better debater, getting his points across, and not letting Kaine land many blows, but he also seemed to stray from some of Trump's well-documented positions. A lot of pundits pointed out the same thing @rkim291968 said, which is that there may have been some self-preservation going on there.

There's a point about Pence's debate performance that I haven't yet seen mentioned.

The media consensus is that Pence won the debate, but he won it largely by running away from the Trump agenda. One of the primary responsibilities given to the vice president, though, is presiding over the Senate, acting as a tie-breaking vote if needed. The fact that ties in the Senate go to the incumbent party in the White House is treated as a given, but the things Pence said last night makes me not so sure about that. Would a President Trump veto a bill for which his own Vice President cast the deciding vote? Would Pence send a bill to Trump's desk that he knows he opposes? I don't think that's ever happened before, but it doesn't seem all that ridiculous now.

[Dave2512]

I see it differently. Pence "won" because the bar for all things Trump is so low that anything better than not throwing a tantrum is a win. He definitely dodged Trump because he had no choice, a lot of it can't be defended and his job for the night was not doing anything that hurt the campaign. But it wasn't like he destroyed Kaine because Kaine's job for the night wasn't to be the good guy on the ticket but to go after Trump. Which he did at his own expense in a political sacrifice fly. What he did do that Pence didn't was defend his running mate, what lost him debate points was being a dick and it appeared to be intentional. The real loser in the debate was Trump.

[newtogolf]

3 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

I see it differently. Pence "won" because the bar for all things Trump is so low that anything better than not throwing a tantrum is a win. He definitely dodged Trump because he had no choice, a lot of it can't be defended and his job for the night was not doing anything that hurt the campaign. But it wasn't like he destroyed Kaine because Kaine's job for the night wasn't to be the good guy on the ticket but to go after Trump. Which he did at his own expense in a political sacrifice fly. What he did do that Pence didn't was defend his running mate, what lost him debate points was being a dick and it appeared to be intentional. The real loser in the debate was Trump.

I agree with most of your thoughts here, I think the difference is Pence is not all in with Trump, he has political aspirations for 2020 if Trump loses.  Kaine seems to be all in with HRC and if she doesn't win, I don't see him making a run for POTUS in 2020.