Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[billchao]

I'd be interested to hear from the bogey gallery which tees you play from.  So many courses set it up different ways, so I'll make up a set.  Which one would be you: [U]Red[/U]: Ladies Tees - 5300 yards [U]White[/U]: Mens Tees - 6000 yards [U]Blue[/U]: Chanpionship Tees - 6600 yards [U]Black[/U]: The Tips - 7000 yards

I'll play the blues on this course. I'm still fairly long for a hack, so the course has to have some distance or I'll hit 6i on every tee box. It makes me sad when I miss fairways with a 6i.

[rkim291968]

I'd be interested to hear from the bogey gallery which tees you play from.  So many courses set it up different ways, so I'll make up a set.  Which one would be you:

Red: Ladies Tees - 5300 yards

White: Mens Tees - 6000 yards

Blue: Chanpionship Tees - 6600 yards

Black: The Tips - 7000 yards

Depending on difficulty.  If 6600 yard is below 125 rating, I will play it.   If it has higher rating, I will play white tee.  My current home course has 6266 yard blue tee at 128 rating.   It is stretching it a little for me.  But their white tee is only 5637 yards.  I will only play it if my partners plays it.

[CR McDivot]

I'd be interested to hear from the bogey gallery which tees you play from.  So many courses set it up different ways, so I'll make up a set.  Which one would be you:

Red: Ladies Tees - 5300 yards

White: Mens Tees - 6000 yards

Blue: Chanpionship Tees - 6600 yards

Black: The Tips - 7000 yards

Whites or Blues, depending on the course's Bogey Rating and my prior experience.

From the USGA Course Rating™ Primer

Bogey Golfer: A male bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap™ of approximately 20 on a course of standard difficulty. He can hit tee shots an average of 200 yards and can reach a 370-yard hole in two shots at sea level.

A female bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap of approximately 24 on a course of standard difficulty. She can hit tee shots an average of 150 yards and can reach a 280-yard hole in two shots.

Bogey Rating™: A Bogey Rating is the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for bogey golfers under normal course and weather conditions. It is expressed as the number of strokes taken to one decimal place (92.1), and is based on yardage and other obstacles to the extent that they affect the scoring difficulty of the bogey golfer.

I find the Bogey Rating more useful than the Course Rating (typical scratch player's expected score) or the Slope Rating (difficulty of a course for players who are not scratch golfers, compared to scratch golfers).

[inthehole]

I'd be interested to hear from the bogey gallery which tees you play from.  So many courses set it up different ways, so I'll make up a set.  Which one would be you:

Red: Ladies Tees - 5300 yards

White: Mens Tees - 6000 yards

Blue: Chanpionship Tees - 6600 yards

Black: The Tips - 7000 yards

I'm not overly long off the tee, so I'd play white.

[teamroper60]

I'd be interested to hear from the bogey gallery which tees you play from.  So many courses set it up different ways, so I'll make up a set.  Which one would be you:

Red: Ladies Tees - 5300 yards

White: Mens Tees - 6000 yards

Blue: Chanpionship Tees - 6600 yards

Black: The Tips - 7000 yards

Based strictly on the yardages you listed, on your imaginary course, I would be playing from the whites.

[Lihu]

Agreed, we should be playing from whites. Oh well. :-P For those concerned about pace of play, I would pick up if anyone is waiting for my party.

[M2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

I'd be interested to hear from the bogey gallery which tees you play from.  So many courses set it up different ways, so I'll make up a set.  Which one would be you:

Red : Ladies Tees - 5300 yards

White : Mens Tees - 6000 yards

Blue : Chanpionship Tees - 6600 yards

Black : The Tips - 7000 yards

Does not appear that you have provided enough information to make an informed decision.  Not that it really matters I tend to play from whatever tees everyone else plays but I would likely balk at playing the tips.

Quote:

Bogey Rating
the one number every golfer worse than a scratch should check before deciding which tees to play. This rating is the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for the bogey golfer. It is based on yardage, effective playing length and other obstacles to the extent that affect the scoring ability of the bogey golfer. To figure out this number, other than from looking at this database, the bogey golfer should take the Slope Rating®, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, and 4.24 for women) and add that to the Course Rating. The result is a target score for the bogey golfer, and is a truer yardstick of the challenge that lies ahead for the particular set of tees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CR McDivot

Whites or Blues, depending on the course's Bogey Rating and my prior experience.

...

I find the Bogey Rating more useful than the Course Rating (typical scratch player's expected score) or the Slope Rating (difficulty of a course for players who are not scratch golfers, compared to scratch golfers).

CR, I copied the quoted text above from the link you cited and added the red emphasis to the text. If you don't have a bogey rating it is fairly easy to get:

bogey rating = slope/5.381 + course rating

or divide by 4.24 for women. That is just a rehash of the red text (hopefully correctly :)

[jetsknicks1]

Tale of two nines today. Shot 45 on the front, with a triple on #9. Fell apart in the back with four doubles and triple for a 50. Hit the driver and irons pretty good, just couldn't chip or putt today. Blew a shot at breaking 90. :-(

[Meltdwhiskey]

Does not appear that you have provided enough information to make an informed decision.  Not that it really matters I tend to play from whatever tees everyone else plays but I would likely balk at playing the tips.

I didn't mean to put you in a bind with the question.  I was not previously aware of the Bogey Rating, and I find it interesting.  But come on man - I have not provided you with enough information?  It is just kind of a hypothetical to get an idea of what everyone is doing.  I would doubt that any but a few of bogey golfers know about this - and somehow they manage to pick some tees. I'd bet that even of the ones that do know about it - they do not get involved in this math every time before picking tees.  It is a pretty cool little formula - but I fear you might be taking it to far to say that you can't choose tees without this. I think most people would glance at the yardage and maybe the slope and go from there.  Or maybe even more often just pick based on which tees they generally play from.  And in some cases pick the ones that seem manly enough.

Also - you didn't really answer what your target is.  From what I gather with looking at one example, this formula tells you what a bogey golfer would typically score from a give set of tees based on rating and slope.  My home course from the whites puts me at around 90. Great.  What is your target number that gets you to select those tees?  And why that number?

[Meltdwhiskey]

Tale of two nines today. Shot 45 on the front, with a triple on #9. Fell apart in the back with four doubles and triple for a 50. Hit the driver and irons pretty good, just couldn't chip or putt today. Blew a shot at breaking 90.

I had a similar one yesterday.  Was hitting pretty well when I got in a deep discussion about the Kennedy assassination with my opponent.  Tripled 6, 7, and 8 to shoot 47 (par 70 course) for the side and to lose the front Nassau and the press.  Got re-focused on golf and we decided we'd try to shoot in the 30's on the back (par 35).  I didn't quite do it, but shot 41 for an 88 total and won the overall and the back Nassau.  Took home a cool 3 bones.

[GreenIn2]

got my driver down buds, if I hit the driving rang and keep a steady pace I'll hit 220 to 275 straight down the center if not then it slices 200 out or straight 150. it's just so hard to not hit it as hard as I can. I do have an issue with that slice, once it shows it drags through all the woods and hybrids too. it's the weirdest thing, if you start thinking about it, it starts happening

[MissouriHack]

Whites, but if I need too I'll move back.

[M2R]

I didn't mean to put you in a bind with the question.  I was not previously aware of the Bogey Rating, and I find it interesting.  But come on man - I have not provided you with enough information?  It is just kind of a hypothetical to get an idea of what everyone is doing.  I would doubt that any but a few of bogey golfers know about this - and somehow they manage to pick some tees. I'd bet that even of the ones that do know about it - they do not get involved in this math every time before picking tees.  It is a pretty cool little formula - but I fear you might be taking it to far to say that you can't choose tees without this. I think most people would glance at the yardage and maybe the slope and go from there.  Or maybe even more often just pick based on which tees they generally play from.  And in some cases pick the ones that seem manly enough.

Also - you didn't really answer what your target is.  From what I gather with looking at one example, this formula tells you what a bogey golfer would typically score from a give set of tees based on rating and slope.  My home course from the whites puts me at around 90. Great.  What is your target number that gets you to select those tees?  And why that number?

I've never used a bogey rating except maybe indirectly and unknowingly. I just saw that blurb in the link CR McDivot posted and thought it was interesting the USGA presented it as the most important number for a bogey golfer.

My comment was more like in a perfect world I would like a rating, slope, and scorecard and/or yardage book to make a decision. The specific example I had in mind was 5700 white and 6100 blue (the course only had red, white, and blue tees) but the blue tees had a rating of 71.4 and slope of 151 and par was only 70 so I want to play the white. In a case where yardage does matter, I care more about how it is distributed than the total number which is why I like to look at a scorecard. If it is mostly in long par three and five holes then I don't care. If it is mostly in long par fours (long to me) I would want to move to a shorter tee.  Sometimes if it is only one hole that is excessively long the group will agree to just move up on that one hole.

Target, I don't have a target except to be comfortable which usually means finding some balance between the three numbers.  I would ideally want a 10 over par score to also be close to a differential of 10 but that is not always practical. However it does seems to be comfortable spot to play from for a lot of courses I have tried. For example one of the last rounds I posted 81 resulting in a 13.5 differential, which suggests I might want to look into playing from a more difficult tee next time.

[Meltdwhiskey]

I've never used a bogey rating except maybe indirectly and unknowingly. I just saw that blurb in the link CR McDivot posted and thought it was interesting the USGA presented it as the most important number for a bogey golfer.

My comment was more like in a perfect world I would like a rating, slope, and scorecard and/or yardage book to make a decision. The specific example I had in mind was 5700 white and 6100 blue (the course only had red, white, and blue tees) but the blue tees had a rating of 71.4 and slope of 151 and par was only 70 so I want to play the white. In a case where yardage does matter, I care more about how it is distributed than the total number which is why I like to look at a scorecard. If it is mostly in long par three and five holes then I don't care. If it is mostly in long par fours (long to me) I would want to move to a shorter tee.  Sometimes if it is only one hole that is excessively long the group will agree to just move up on that one hole.

Target, I don't have a target except to be comfortable which usually means finding some balance between the three numbers.  I would ideally want a 10 over par score to also be close to a differential of 10 but that is not always practical. However it does seems to be comfortable spot to play from for a lot of courses I have tried. For example one of the last rounds I posted 81 resulting in a 13.5 differential, which suggests I might want to look into playing from a more difficult tee next time.

Gotcha.  And thanks for the input.

It sounds like I do what most do.  I normally play whites.  But pretty often there are people in my group that want to play blues.  And I usually do it just because it is less awkward than doing the different tees every time.  And it looks like all of our answers so far are the blues and the whites at maybe 40/60.

So, philosophically speaking, why wouldn't we just play from the whites every time (excluding those times when others in the group are going blue)?  I'm sure the tee it forward campaign would want us to.  Also, the course I loosely based this on has recommendations on the card and the whites are for handicaps between 15 and 24.  And it isn't a really hard course or anything, slope 119 from whites.  And I'm guessing if a non-golfer were to look at the situation, he would automatically assume that if you have trouble making at least bogey on every single hole (which we do) - why wouldn't you do something easier?  Aren't you supposed to do this in 72 strokes???

It seems a bit arbitrary right?  To borrow a couple of thoughts from above - I'm kinda long / if the slope is xxx / I might use a formula that puts me right at 18 over, etc.  I have these conversations on the first tee box as well.  But it feels like we're saying, "I can't shoot anywhere near par, but even still I'm not going to pick the tees that will give me the best chance to score low.  I'll pick a set that adds a few strokes.  I'm trying to shoot 20 over instead of 17 over." It almost seems silly to choose something more challenging when you haven't remotely conquered the easy one yet.

I guess somewhere around bogey isn't completely arbitrary - but it seems a more logical theory might be to play the "men's" tees until we could scare par.  Or scare 80 frequently.  No matter how long you are, you'll still do better from closer.  No matter how easy the whites are, you might not break 90, and you VERY likely won't break 80.  Tee shots should improve, approach shots should be closer, resulting in more GIR's, closer pin proximity, more shot control, experience with the pressure of shooting a low score, etc.

I just got to thinking about this this weekend and would be interested to hear your thoughts.

[jetsknicks1]

Gotcha.  And thanks for the input.   It sounds like I do what most do.  I normally play whites.  But pretty often there are people in my group that want to play blues.  And I usually do it just because it is less awkward than doing the different tees every time.  And it looks like all of our answers so far are the blues and the whites at maybe 40/60. So, philosophically speaking, why wouldn't we just play from the whites every time (excluding those times when others in the group are going blue)?  I'm sure the tee it forward campaign would want us to.  Also, the course I loosely based this on has recommendations on the card and the whites are for handicaps between 15 and 24.  And it isn't a really hard course or anything, slope 119 from whites.  And I'm guessing if a non-golfer were to look at the situation, he would automatically assume that if you have trouble making at least bogey on every single hole (which we do) - why wouldn't you do something easier?  Aren't you supposed to do this in 72 strokes??? It seems a bit arbitrary right?  To borrow a couple of thoughts from above - I'm kinda long / if the slope is xxx / I might use a formula that puts me right at 18 over, etc.  I have these conversations on the first tee box as well.  But it feels like we're saying, "I can't shoot anywhere near par, but even still I'm not going to pick the tees that will give me the best chance to score low.  I'll pick a set that adds a few strokes.  I'm trying to shoot 20 over instead of 17 over." It almost seems silly to choose something more challenging when you haven't remotely conquered the easy one yet. I guess somewhere around bogey isn't completely arbitrary - but it seems a more logical theory might be to play the "men's" tees until we could scare par.  Or scare 80 frequently.  No matter how long you are, you'll still do better from closer.  No matter how easy the whites are, you might not break 90, and you VERY likely won't break 80.  Tee shots should improve, approach shots should be closer, resulting in more GIR's, closer pin proximity, more shot control, experience with the pressure of shooting a low score, etc. I just got to thinking about this this weekend and would be interested to hear your thoughts.

. the last 4-5 rounds my buddies and I started moving up a set of tees and I gotta tell ya, it's a lot more fun. It feels a bit weird at first and if I'm in a different group, I'll move back one so it's not so awkward but it's much more enjoyable playing 5700/5800 yds rather than trying to blast away from 6200 all day.

[AmazingWhacker]

I don't keep official handicap but I meet the description of a bogy golfer AND I started golfing relatively late in life (started at age 35, now 39).  As I keep learning more and more about my golf swing I have come to the terrible conclusion that I am not capable of making a full-swing.  About 3/4 is the best I can do without getting all out of sequence and off-balance.

Lately at home and at the range I've been working on making these really nice almost-3/4 swings and not trying to do a full-swing.  My longest shots haven't really decreased much at all and my average distance has gone way up from having fewer mishits.  In fact, I'm kind of hopefull that I'll be able to consider myself a "former bogey golfer" sometime soon.  On the courses I play, I could get to a pretty low handicap with the distance a 3/4 swing provides.

[Lihu]

. the last 4-5 rounds my buddies and I started moving up a set of tees and I gotta tell ya, it's a lot more fun. It feels a bit weird at first and if I'm in a different group, I'll move back one so it's not so awkward but it's much more enjoyable playing 5700/5800 yds rather than trying to blast away from 6200 all day.

Yeah, it's kind of funny that the USGA created guidelines for our enjoyment of the game, then most of us use the furthest tees to make ourselves miserable.

[rkim291968]

I don't keep official handicap but I meet the description of a bogy golfer AND I started golfing relatively late in life (started at age 35, now 39).  As I keep learning more and more about my golf swing I have come to the terrible conclusion that I am not capable of making a full-swing.  About 3/4 is the best I can do without getting all out of sequence and off-balance.

Lately at home and at the range I've been working on making these really nice almost-3/4 swings and not trying to do a full-swing.  My longest shots haven't really decreased much at all and my average distance has gone way up from having fewer mishits.  In fact, I'm kind of hopefull that I'll be able to consider myself a "former bogey golfer" sometime soon.  On the courses I play, I could get to a pretty low handicap with the distance a 3/4 swing provides.

If you have distance & accuracy with 3/4 swing, why not?  I've seen pros use 3/4 swing (or other partial swing) more than half of their shots.  One pro golfer I know hits 70% of shots with less than full swing.