Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Forget about Coyote Creek, I'll be up there sometime early spring. I want to join you on one of your trips. I noticed you need a foursome at $95 for the first person.

Do you think we can do a celebratory round when we get to 12 hcp or better?

We can do celebratory round even if we don't get to 12 hcp .  Let's you and me play mano a mano (no handicap), Southern Cal vs Northern Cal.   Anything you want to bet?   This will give me added motivation to improve before you get up here in early spring.

Back to OT, I've just got back from another range practice.  My ball striking is under control, and I am getting a good handle on getting out of high bunker.  For crying out loud, I am beginning to put some spin on the ball out of bunker.

But you were a 12 hcp, and I am a beginning bogey golfer.... Give me 6 strokes, and a buck a hole?

My son might join too. You could probably compete with him ? He's a mere 6 or 8 strokes better since our last outing, he'll be 14 so just give him a couple strokes or so

Seriously, we should make a day of it. I plan to head up north this spring. I will PM you and let you know, I look forward to the Grill and Wine tasting! Got to save up big for this outing.

[Meltdwhiskey]

I've got a hypothetical question for the bogey crew based on a conversation a buddy and I were having about "par".  First, I'd like to tip a hat to those that can shoot par - it seems a long way off to me.  Great job! Anyway, we were talking about how far 72 is from what most people actually shoot - and how the golf gods are kind of cruel to make it seem like this is what we should shoot.  This led to my question: what length would a course need to be for you to shoot even par?

Let's assume a medium difficulty course, par 72, and you would be able to shoot par on this course 25-50% of the time.  When thinking about it, I couldn't decide which angle to attack the question from - based on my u&d; percentage, tee length/accuracy, scoring on par 3 holes / par 4 holes, etc.  Also, maybe the answer is affected by what a person's strengths and weaknesses are.

[Lihu]

I've got a hypothetical question for the bogey crew based on a conversation a buddy and I were having about "par".  First, I'd like to tip a hat to those that can shoot par - it seems a long way off to me.  Great job! Anyway, we were talking about how far 72 is from what most people actually shoot - and how the golf gods are kind of cruel to make it seem like this is what we should shoot.  This led to my question: what length would a course need to be for you to shoot even par?

Let's assume a medium difficulty course, par 72, and you would be able to shoot par on this course 25-50% of the time.  When thinking about it, I couldn't decide which angle to attack the question from - based on my u&d; percentage, tee length/accuracy, scoring on par 3 holes / par 4 holes, etc.  Also, maybe the answer is affected by what a person's strengths and weaknesses are.

5000 yards of wide open fairways with no divots on the perfectly level tee boxes, and fluffy and level greens that are trimmed extra short right around the hole with large approaches on them. No par 5 longer than 475 yards and par 3 that are only 125 yards. Maximum par 4 would be 330 yards and most of them could be driven with a carry of 250 yards and hard dry fairway approaches so the balls can roll 80 yards downhill on every par 4 green.

Did I forget anything?

It was hypothetical, of course.

[Meltdwhiskey]

5000 yards of wide open fairways with no divots on the perfectly level tee boxes, and fluffy and level greens that are trimmed extra short right around the hole with large approaches on them. No par 5 longer than 475 yards and par 3 that are only 125 yards. Maximum par 4 would be 330 yards and most of them could be driven with a carry of 250 yards and hard dry fairway approaches so the balls can roll 80 yards downhill on every par 4 green.

Did I forget anything?

It was hypothetical, of course.

You changed it from a medium difficulty course to a notably easy course - but within that, maybe 5000 is doable (your maximums actually add up to about 5700).  I didn't have any holes at your lengths because:

1. I probably average 5 on most 325-400 yard par 4's - I don't think I could average 5 on a 475 yard par 5

2. I know I can't average 3 on 125 yard par 3's - or even 100 yard par 3's

3. I know I can't average 4 on 330 yard par 4's - as stated above - I probably average close to 5 at that length

But your course is easier and those were maximums - not average distances. I might still be a bogey golfer on that course.  Damnit!

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

5000 yards of wide open fairways with no divots on the perfectly level tee boxes, and fluffy and level greens that are trimmed extra short right around the hole with large approaches on them. No par 5 longer than 475 yards and par 3 that are only 125 yards. Maximum par 4 would be 330 yards and most of them could be driven with a carry of 250 yards and hard dry fairway approaches so the balls can roll 80 yards downhill on every par 4 green.

Did I forget anything?

It was hypothetical, of course.

You changed it from a medium difficulty course to a notably easy course - but within that, maybe 5000 is doable (your maximums actually add up to about 5700).  I didn't have any holes at your lengths because:

1. I probably average 5 on most 325-400 yard par 4's - I don't think I could average 5 on a 475 yard par 5

2. I know I can't average 3 on 125 yard par 3's - or even 100 yard par 3's

3. I know I can't average 4 on 330 yard par 4's - as stated above - I probably average close to 5 at that length

But your course is easier and those were maximums - not average distances. I might still be a bogey golfer on that course.  Damnit!

Ah, but on the course I described, you might par the 5s most of the time. Plus you have more birdie chances with the numerous drivable par 4 holes.

Remember that I described some pretty friendly flat and fluffy greens (hence GIR is very possible as most balls will stop on the green) with large approaches. Don't forget about the fast ring of trimmed green around the hole.

As I mentioned, I might have "forgotten" some features to make it even friendlier.

I wonder if we could make a golf course like this and possibly get a lot of satisfied customers...

[Meltdwhiskey]

Ah, but on the course I described, you might par the 5s most of the time. Plus you have more birdie chances with the numerous drivable par 4 holes.

Remember that I described some pretty friendly flat and fluffy greens (hence GIR is very possible as most balls will stop on the green) with large approaches. Don't forget about the fast ring of trimmed green around the hole.

As I mentioned, I might have "forgotten" some features to make it even friendlier.

I wonder if we could make a golf course like this and possibly get a lot of satisfied customers...

It's not a bad idea, huh?  Although it seems most golfers want to play increasingly more difficult courses from all ability levels.  But it sounds fun to me.  Golf is hard enough.

I called it a medium difficulty course because I was trying to get an apples to apples comparison for yardage as opposed to building a different kind of golf course.  But playing a super easy course is a good question as well.  Harder to quantify maybe.

I also don't think the greens 'holding' the long approaches is why we miss most of them on long approaches.  I think we just miss them. As for the 475 yard par 5 - I'll give that some more thought.  Still having trouble seeing me getting a par there 25-50% of the time even on an easy course.  You still need a 175 / 175 / 125 to get a GIR.  Or a 200 / 200 / 75.  Three pretty good shots consecutively any way you look at it - and then you still can't 3 putt.  I'll think on that one.

Anyway, what yardage would you guess on a regular golf course?

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/70872/bogey-golfer-only-thread-handicap-index-from-16-22-what-are-you-going-through-working-on-sob-stories/396#post_926206"] Ah, but on the course I described, you might par the 5s most of the time. Plus you have more birdie chances with the numerous drivable par 4 holes. Remember that I described some pretty friendly flat and fluffy greens (hence GIR is very possible as most balls will stop on the green) with large approaches. Don't forget about the fast ring of trimmed green around the hole. As I mentioned, I might have "forgotten" some features to make it even friendlier. :-)   I wonder if we could make a golf course like this and possibly get a lot of satisfied customers... [/QUOTE] It's not a bad idea, huh?  Although it seems most golfers want to play increasingly more difficult courses from all ability levels.  But it sounds fun to me.  Golf is hard enough. I called it a medium difficulty course because I was trying to get an apples to apples comparison for yardage as opposed to building a different kind of golf course.  But playing a super easy course is a good question as well.  Harder to quantify maybe.   I also don't think the greens 'holding' the long approaches is why we miss most of them on long approaches.  I think we just miss them. As for the 475 yard par 5 - I'll give that some more thought.  Still having trouble seeing me getting a par there 25-50% of the time even on an easy course.  You still need a 175 / 175 / 125 to get a GIR.  Or a 200 / 200 / 75.  Three pretty good shots consecutively any way you look at it - and then you still can't 3 putt.  I'll think on that one. Anyway, what yardage would you guess on a regular golf course?

That's a lot tougher for me to answer, but I have a relatively easy course I have not been on for a while rated only 65/108. I'll see if I can get someone to go with me this weekend.

[rkim291968]

"A scratch golfer hits an average of 12 greens in regulation, 81% of the fairways, has 29.0 putts, 3.2 birdies per round and 11.8 pars per round."   The also drive about 250 yards on average.

[jetsknicks1]

"A scratch golfer hits an average of 12 greens in regulation, 81% of the fairways, has 29.0 putts, 3.2 birdies per round and 11.8 pars per round."   The also drive about 250 yards on average.

Is that all I need to do? I wish somebody had told me that earlier. :-D

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

"A scratch golfer hits an average of 12 greens in regulation, 81% of the fairways, has 29.0 putts, 3.2 birdies per round and 11.8 pars per round."   The also drive about 250 yards on average.

Is that all I need to do? I wish somebody had told me that earlier.

It's easier to doctor your scorecard.

Of all the things listed above, what do you think is the easiest to achieve (for you, and for bogey golfers)?   For me, getting to 29 putts is the closest, 250 yard drive, then 11.8 pars.   The other stats?   I cannot even touch.

[Meltdwhiskey]

That's a lot tougher for me to answer, but I have a relatively easy course I have not been on for a while rated only 65/108. I'll see if I can get someone to go with me this weekend.

I have a little to go on.  My course has a compact little par 3 course.  It is pretty easy and short.  It has bunkers and some water and such - but the average hole is about 100 yards - with the longest being about 135.  Earlier in the year, I was practicing on it a good bit and recorded my scores.  Over 20 rounds of 9 holes - my average score was about 5.5 over par - which projects to 11 over par for 18 and a per hole average of 3.6 strokes.  2-over for 9 was the best I ever did.  I would have thought 100 yard holes would be easier.

But either way, I apparently need to be somewhere inside 100.  And short game is my strength!  My HC is a little lower now - so I might do a little better.  But I can't shoot par on it.  It also means that I can't shoot par if all the par 4's left my approach at 100 yards.  So what shot is consistent enough to get me well inside 100 yards on average?

I'm thinking I'd need to be well under 300 for the par 4's.  The course I play has a 194 yard par 3 - which I almost never par.  I probably average close to 4 on that hole.  But I might average close to 4 from 210, 225, 250 as well.  Not sure where a break point would be.

At par 3's being 75, par 4's being 225 and par 5's being 360(I can probably average 5 from there) - That's just under 4000 yards.  This would be my closest guess.  But I can't say I'm confident I'd actually pull that off.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Of all the things listed above, what do you think is the easiest to achieve (for you, and for bogey golfers)?   For me, getting to 29 putts is the closest, 250 yard drive, then 11.8 pars.   The other stats?   I cannot even touch.

That seems right.  Since we miss so many greens, we chip up nearer to the hole than we would when hitting an actual approach shot.  It is a little bit of a cheat.  If you went irons all the time off the tee, you might be able to manipulate that 81% fairways, but they would be woefully short of that 250 yards.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetsknicks1

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

"A scratch golfer hits an average of 12 greens in regulation, 81% of the fairways, has 29.0 putts, 3.2 birdies per round and 11.8 pars per round."   The also drive about 250 yards on average.

Is that all I need to do? I wish somebody had told me that earlier.

It's easier to doctor your scorecard.

Of all the things listed above, what do you think is the easiest to achieve (for you, and for bogey golfers)?   For me, getting to 29 putts is the closest, 250 yard drive, then 11.8 pars.   The other stats?   I cannot even touch.

You need to change your balls to: Rangè

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIR3oCQMQBE

Seriously, though. I think the 11.8 pars depends upon the 250 yard drives and the 29 putts. I am pretty sure the next argument is what is more important 250 yard drives or 29 putts.

If you drive 250 yards on average straight down the fairway, our average par 4 (360 yards) would leave us about 110 yards to the hole. So, getting good at 80 to 150 yards is also essential. Next, chipping and putting. But if you are pretty good at the former, the chips are from near the approach or on it. Or the best case is a 2 putt or eagle. Putting comes last for me as long as it is under 35.

[rkim291968]

I changed my mind.  I think I can get to 250 yard drive average the quickest.   I need to lower my ball flight, and fit my driver & ball to maximum carry.  And if I can gain 3 MPH in swing speed (93 now), I can get to 250 yard drive average.   The rest will take some time and a lot of practice to overcome.   11 GIRs/round will be the hardest to get to.

[Hammer 4]

[billchao]

I've got a hypothetical question for the bogey crew based on a conversation a buddy and I were having about "par".  First, I'd like to tip a hat to those that can shoot par - it seems a long way off to me.  Great job! Anyway, we were talking about how far 72 is from what most people actually shoot - and how the golf gods are kind of cruel to make it seem like this is what we should shoot.  This led to my question: what length would a course need to be for you to shoot even par? Let's assume a medium difficulty course, par 72, and you would be able to shoot par on this course 25-50% of the time.  When thinking about it, I couldn't decide which angle to attack the question from - based on my u&d; percentage, tee length/accuracy, scoring on par 3 holes / par 4 holes, etc.  Also, maybe the answer is affected by what a person's strengths and weaknesses are.

There's an executive course by me: 3,300 yards, par 58. Lowest I ever shot there was 79, so I'll say shorter than 3,000 yards to shoot 72, but it's not even par. I think it's a fallacy to pick one aspect of our game or another as the reason we're not better golfers. Every aspect of our games need work, that's why we're bogey golfers. I bet I'd have a hard time shooting par on a pitch and putt, and I doubt I'm the only one here that would.

[Lihu]

I can get the 250, it's finding the fairways enough to get the GIR's though..LOL

Right. That's what makes a scratch golfer, scratch.

[randomzero]

The great thing is, I've got all new clubs coming. The driver is already here, and even though I haven't actually hit a ball yet, I love the feel swinging it. In my case, I really think that the new clubs will make a major difference. Quality clubs and the right shaft flex should improve my accuracy and consistency a great deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

"A scratch golfer hits an average of 12 greens in regulation, 81% of the fairways, has 29.0 putts, 3.2 birdies per round and 11.8 pars per round."   The also drive about 250 yards on average.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

It's easier to doctor your scorecard.

Of all the things listed above, what do you think is the easiest to achieve (for you, and for bogey golfers)?   For me, getting to 29 putts is the closest, 250 yard drive, then 11.8 pars.   The other stats?   I cannot even touch.

I think: 250 yard drive, 3 birdies, 12 GIR, 29 putts, 12 pars, then 81% fairways.

1) 250 yard drive: Generally, you can hit it pretty far if you don't care about accuracy.

2) 3 birdies: I've had 2 birdies in a round, and maybe even 3.

3) 81% FWs: Pretty difficult if you're going for distance, too, but 11/14 isn't that bad, depending on the course.

4) 12 GIR: Tough ask, but not unreasonable.

5) 12 pars: Well, if I can hit 12 GIR...

6) 29 putts: You need a killer short game for this one. If you were given 18 shots around the green, some from trouble lies, etc., could you get up and down 7/18 times? Could you two putt the rest of them? I probably couldn't, and I doubt most bogey golfers could.

Nice thread, by the way. Was a fun read. I need to work some more on that course management thing.