Multiple People Killed in Shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport

[Elmer]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

I can't believe people didn't come up and beat the daylights out of him to subdue him 'for sure', but they may have thought it was a ruse and were just following the shelter instructions on the PA.

 

2 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

 

Can't believe he wasn't confronted by anyone before running out of ammo and laying on the ground.

"If he had hit a 6 iron instead of a 7 he would have been pin high on the green"!

Monday Morning Quarterbacking is a wonderful thing!

[Abu3baid]

4 hours ago, Lihu said:

It's kind of tough to tackle down someone trained to kill who is shooting at you. . .

It's my fault, I wasn't specific enough.  I meant, I can't believe he wasn't confronted by an officer.  As in, I can't believe it took them that long to respond.  I would never advocate nor suggest for regular citizen to do anything but run or hide.

4 hours ago, Hatchman said:

In the 23 second TMZ graphic YouTube video I don't think the young man with the two boys in front of him walking or the older couples walking behind him have training to take out an active shooter.  Once he pulled and fired to his right he then started running out of baggage camera view.  

Of course I agree with you!

3 hours ago, natureboy said:

I can't believe people didn't come up and beat the daylights out of him to subdue him 'for sure', but they may have thought it was a ruse and were just following the shelter instructions on the PA.

They did the right thing unless they were trained and armed.

3 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

But then you're leaving the entrance to the public library unguarded... Putting a ton of cops outside airport entrances after the fact is like making people take their shoes off at security. It makes people feel better, but it's a little ****ing late.

Well the library door is a problem you are right.  It might be late, but I'm not saying put a ton either.  How about having a revolving patrol that if someone shot a gun within a few seconds someone trained is there to respond?  Remember, I'm specifically talking about the airport and not all public buildings here.

 

2 hours ago, Elmer said:

 

"If he had hit a 6 iron instead of a 7 he would have been pin high on the green"!

Monday Morning Quarterbacking is a wonderful thing!

Again, I wasn't suggesting some regular Joe try and play arrow.

[natureboy]

5 hours ago, Elmer said:

"If he had hit a 6 iron instead of a 7 he would have been pin high on the green"!

Monday Morning Quarterbacking is a wonderful thing!

I'm not blaming or critiquing anyone. I'm just a bit surprised it didn't happen.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

if you have a better solution to help protect travelers please let us know.  I say, with all the money thrown into airport security they can have a little bit stronger security so that a guy can't just shoot the place up until he runs out of ammo.  

We're not getting into political  discussions anymore. If I did propose a solution I would hope that it would be a little more than "show" that would prevent only the style of attack that has happened all of, what, one time in history?

Millions of travelers have flown with both firearms and bullets prior to this without incident. So the count is now 1. Over-reacting leads to bad policy and wasted money.

[carpediem4300]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

We're not getting into political  discussions anymore. If I did propose a solution I would hope that it would be a little more than "show" that would prevent only the style of attack that has happened all of, what, one time in history?

Millions of travelers have flown with both firearms and bullets prior to this without incident. So the count is now 1. Over-reacting leads to bad policy and wasted money.

Its not about "over-reacting" its about seeing an issue that could occur again and finding a sensible solution to fix it,......your a very smart guy and you say alot of smart stuff that even if i dont agree with it I can appreciate it and I can appreciate your line of thought and opinion, but the line "Millions of travellers have flown with both firearms and bullets prior to this without incident. So the count is now 1" is about the most retarded thing I have ever seen you say, you may as well of said "Dont worry about it, a few people died but it doesnt happen often so no sweat" this is what I see is the over-riding problem with Americans and their views on gun laws or gun accidents, you turn everything into a statistic and remove the fact that life was lost needlessly, this is why the world looks to America and thinks WTF?

 New years day in America and 204 people reportedly lost their lives to guns, but thats only 0.000064% of the population so it doesnt matter right? you didnt know any of them right? 

Live's have been lost, and pointlessly so, here is a problem that can be addressed without a gun law debate, but a debate on security and common sense, you dont need to "over-react" to solve this problem

[RandallT]

2 hours ago, carpediem4300 said:

is about the most retarded thing I have ever seen you say

Is this really the direction you want to take this thread? 

Disagree, fine. But when one escalates like this, it lights a match to a topic we all know to be toxic. 

To bring things back a bit from the brink and inject some humor, Erik has probably said much more retarded things!  Kidding, boss  

Let's just all take it down a level and treat opinions with respect. A bit of understanding and allowing people to have their own beliefs is healthy, but I have no problem with you laying out a reasoned disagreement. 

[carpediem4300]

Apologies @RandallT & @iacas it came from a place of passion rather than hatred, and was not said to start an argument or anything toxic, I still think it's a stupid thing to say, but agree i could of been more eloquent in how i disagreed with it

[CarlSpackler]

Between this and the massive manhunt going on in Orlando for a guy who shot a cop yesterday (and another died in a motorcycle accident during the search), I think I'll crawl in a hole for a while. Let me know when it is safe to come out. 

There is a new report that the shooter had made plans to fly to NYC for NYE. 

[Ernest Jones]

I'm going down to the States at the end of the month. First time since the election. I travel to the States about 3-4 times a year. It feels different this time. For the first time ever, it feels a little uncomfortable and disconcerting. Crazy time in history. 

[RandallT]

30 minutes ago, carpediem4300 said:

Apologies @RandallT & @iacas it came from a place of passion rather than hatred, and was not said to start an argument or anything toxic, I still think it's a stupid thing to say, but agree i could of been more eloquent in how i disagreed with it

Thanks, man. I get the passion thing and overall, life's boring without the passion- as are discussion forums.  Just trying to strike a balance here, as in sure you understand. 

Now continue your battle 

[carpediem4300]

19 minutes ago, RandallT said:

Thanks, man. I get the passion thing and overall, life's boring without the passion- as are discussion forums.  Just trying to strike a balance here, as in sure you understand. 

Now continue your battle 

Im always grouchier in the morning, I blame that,.....im literally 28 going on 58 with how grumpy i get nowadays

 

ive tried to edit the post to make it more friendly mannered but it wont let me, for whatever reason so what will be will be, and to be honest I dont think I have anything else to add that doesnt move the topic into the political debate realm which has been asked to not happen so I shant

[14ledo81]

1 hour ago, Ernest Jones said:

I'm going down to the States at the end of the month. First time since the election. I travel to the States about 3-4 times a year. It feels different this time. For the first time ever, it feels a little uncomfortable and disconcerting. Crazy time in history. 

 

Interesting.  I am traveling to California for some business training next week.  I have traveled across most of the northern half of the nation (not the NE) and felt completely comfortable.  I have to say it feels a bit uncomfortable and disconcerting for myself to travel to Cali.  I think it is just different view points.  I am fairly certain we will both be fine.

[David in FL]

10 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

 

Interesting.  I am traveling to California for some business training next week.  I have traveled across most of the northern half of the nation (not the NE) and felt completely comfortable.  I have to say it feels a bit uncomfortable and disconcerting for myself to travel to Cali.  

Just make sure you get your shots!

[iacas]

5 hours ago, carpediem4300 said:

Its not about "over-reacting" its about seeing an issue that could occur again and finding a sensible solution to fix it,......your a very smart guy and you say alot of smart stuff that even if i dont agree with it I can appreciate it and I can appreciate your line of thought and opinion, but the line "Millions of travellers have flown with both firearms and bullets prior to this without incident. So the count is now 1" is about the most retarded thing I have ever seen you say, you may as well of said "Dont worry about it, a few people died but it doesnt happen often so no sweat" this is what I see is the over-riding problem with Americans and their views on gun laws or gun accidents, you turn everything into a statistic and remove the fact that life was lost needlessly, this is why the world looks to America and thinks WTF?

A guy just stabbed a bunch of people at Ohio State, and the country (rightly, IMO) didn't halt the sale of butcher knives, spend a bunch of money investigating what we have to do about our growing "knife crime," or whatever.

Am I all for the spending of millions of dollars for what seems to have been a once-in-history event? No. I'm for the study of it and the careful and correct application of law and spending.

Five lives were lost, I get that. But to react now to "solve" this particular problem is just what I said it was: reactionary. Reacting to solve this particular problem doesn't give time for thought, time to consider the problem as a whole.

Perhaps the best solution involves better care for those suffering from mental health issues. Or better recognition of mental health issues.

I simply proposed study before enacting laws and spending money. But hey, sorry for being so retarded as to suggest that we not simply "react" but think about something and come up with a GOOD law.

5 hours ago, carpediem4300 said:

New years day in America and 204 people reportedly lost their lives to guns, but thats only 0.000064% of the population so it doesnt matter right? you didnt know any of them right?

I wasn't commenting on any of that, now was I? I was commenting on this specific instance.

[carpediem4300]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

A guy just stabbed a bunch of people at Ohio State, and the country (rightly, IMO) didn't halt the sale of butcher knives, spend a bunch of money investigating what we have to do about our growing "knife crime," or whatever.

Am I all for the spending of millions of dollars for what seems to have been a once-in-history event? No. I'm for the study of it and the careful and correct application of law and spending.

Five lives were lost, I get that. But to react now to "solve" this particular problem is just what I said it was: reactionary. Reacting to solve this particular problem doesn't give time for thought, time to consider the problem as a whole.

Perhaps the best solution involves better care for those suffering from mental health issues. Or better recognition of mental health issues.

I simply proposed study before enacting laws and spending money. But hey, sorry for being so retarded as to suggest that we not simply "react" but think about something and come up with a GOOD law.

I wasn't commenting on any of that, now was I? I was commenting on this specific instance.

I think what i meant was your response seemed blaze in respect of doing anything,  how many times does something have to happen for it to require a quicker reaction? what price do you put on peoples lives?

I mean when terrorists flew planes into the twin towers that was the first time it had happened in the states on that scale did you sit back and go "hold on, dont tighten airline security yet, its only happened the once?" the response of immediate stricter airline security was the right decision,....the decision to invade Afghanistan perhaps not so and maybe needed a longer reaction time, but thats venturing into political debate territories so ill pull back from that

I know your comments come from a good place that you would rather find the best solution rather than react quick and throw bandaids at it, but to me it feels like the comment of someone that never really gets anything done because they um and ah and evaluate and re-evaluate,.....a bit like a politician, they say a whole lot, how much do they ever get done?

 

 

[Jeremie Boop]

2 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

I'm going down to the States at the end of the month. First time since the election. I travel to the States about 3-4 times a year. It feels different this time. For the first time ever, it feels a little uncomfortable and disconcerting. Crazy time in history. 

People are still the same, still act the same, still do the same things on a daily basis. I can see how viewing things on the media could lead you to feel like you do, but you really don't need to be disconcerted or uncomfortable.

 

On topic, I agree with @iacas that we shouldn't rush into making a new law or changing regulations right away based on a single event. Perhaps it's just a matter of tightening up what's already there or looking into what the cause was instead of focusing on the act itself. I think if we started focusing more on what caused the people who do these things to act as they have we'd probably be able to find a much more appropriate and effective answer on how to stop future occurrences.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, carpediem4300 said:

I think what i meant was your response seemed blaze in respect of doing anything,  how many times does something have to happen for it to require a quicker reaction? what price do you put on peoples lives?

All I said was that reactionary laws and spending tend to be bad, and urged that we not do that. I kept it short because to go on would get into a political discussion.

You're so badly misinterpreting my post and position at this point that this line of discussion ends with my post here. Sorry, but when you misunderstand and then call my ideas "retarded," you lose the right to get the last word.

1 hour ago, carpediem4300 said:

I mean when terrorists flew planes into the twin towers that was the first time it had happened in the states on that scale did you sit back and go "hold on, dont tighten airline security yet, its only happened the once?"

You're being ridiculous.

1 hour ago, carpediem4300 said:

the response of immediate stricter airline security was the right decision

Actually there are differing opinions on that, too. Because I don't care much about politics I haven't read them and don't know where I fall, but I know for certain that there are those who feel the TSA is a boondoggle that wastes money without providing much in the way of actual security. Some call it the "TSA Theater" because it's more of a show than actual security. I'm sure there are specifics out there, but I don't know 'em.

I also know that there are many, many intelligent people who think that many of the laws we passed post-9/11 were over-reaching, reactionary, and ultimately bad. These people have problems with the Patriot Act, Homeland Security's creation and reach/power, etc. The laws passed post-9/11 are not universally accepted as "good" laws, and it's ridiculous to assume that they are. Particularly by an outsider.

1 hour ago, carpediem4300 said:

the decision to invade Afghanistan perhaps not so and maybe needed a longer reaction time, but thats venturing into political debate territories so ill pull back from that

I'm glad you've decided now's the time to show restraint… </sarcasm>

You said "perhaps that needed a longer reaction time," yet I suggested the same thing after an event with several orders of magnitude lower significance, and I'm the one who gets yelled at? Please.

That guy that shot up the Batman movie a few years ago… should we have footed the bill to pay for metal detectors and armed security at our movie theaters? Or maybe just closed all the movie theaters, since they were no longer safe? Maybe we should have created the MSA, the Movie Security Administration, and spent billions of dollars making sure that nobody was smuggling in weapons in their popcorn or Jujubes.

Or would doing that have been reactionary and done little to solve the actual problem, whether it's mental health, economic, etc.?

1 hour ago, carpediem4300 said:

I know your comments come from a good place that you would rather find the best solution rather than react quick and throw bandaids at it, but to me it feels like the comment of someone that never really gets anything done because they um and ah and evaluate and re-evaluate, a bit like a politician, they say a whole lot, how much do they ever get done?

No, wrong approach. I'm hardly the type of person who sits around and doesn't get things done. I'm one of the most "get things done" people know. So no.

It's pretty incredible how badly you misread or misunderstood my post. And instead of walking it back and saying "okay, it seems clear to me now I really misunderstood your post, and I was probably tired and caught up in the emotions a little bit, sorry" you're almost doubling down on how you read my post.

You were wrong in how you read it. When told you were wrong, you continued on down the path.

Enough.

---

And yeah, @Ernest Jones, I second what @Jeremie Boop said, for the most part.

[CarlSpackler]

We have a guy who went to the FBI in Alaska and said that voices in his head were telling him to join ISIS. He buys a 1-way ticket (which are supposed to be highly scrutinized post 9-11) and checks a gun and ammo. There were plenty of warning signs here, but I would argue that things like this will continue to happen in 1 form or another. Instead of metal detectors, we could really use mental detectors.