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Foresight Sports will unveil its new GCQuad launch monitor, which delivers a wide range of ball and club data in a compact unit for golfers who want all the information and statistics they can learn to help improve their game the right way.

The launch monitor has four cameras measuring everything from ball spin axis and carry distance to clubface angle and impact point. It also has a larger, outdoor-viewable display than its predecessor and Wi-Fi connectivity, making it even easier to use.

Foresight Sports will be in booth 1025 at the PGA Show on Jan. 25-27 in Orlando. 
Foresights Sports
 

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I'm still not sold on their accuracy.

And the accurate club data requires you to put dots and things on the clubs fairly accurately, still.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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1 hour ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Is the retail price around $12,000?  Not something most of us are going to have in our garage driving range.

Is it? The one advantage Foresight used to have was that it was a good bit cheaper. Something like… Trackman $30k, FlightScope $12k, Foresight $6k.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Is it? The one advantage Foresight used to have was that it was a good bit cheaper. Something like… Trackman $30k, FlightScope $12k, Foresight $6k.

A site called Golf News Net stated the following:

"The Foresight Sports GCQuad will retail in the range of $12,000 -- a reasonable price, given the technology and competition in the marketplace -- with software running in the area of $3,000."

Since I saw it on the internet, it must be true.

 

Brian Kuehn

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4 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

A site called Golf News Net stated the following:

"The Foresight Sports GCQuad will retail in the range of $12,000 -- a reasonable price, given the technology and competition in the marketplace -- with software running in the area of $3,000."

Since I saw it on the internet, it must be true.

Ouch.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Perhaps they've decided the accuracy with the extra cameras merits the price right in between FlightScope and Trackman (if you include the HMT unit).

I have to think the actual measurement of ball flight via Trackman is the most precise for what the ball is doing. But if IIRC clubhead info other than the path of geometric center is computed from an algorithm rather than measured. I understand it's a very accurate model with excellent algorithms for what conditions create what ball flights.

That said, things like point of strike on the face (gear effect) and dynamic lie angle and can affect ball flight, so in an ideal world it would be great to have radar for the ball flight plus cameras for the head angles.

My eyes were opened to the value of the HMT by some of Mark Crossfield's videos where he very helpfully works on point of strike / clubhead related issues with both good and less good golfers. For me that would be worth the trouble to put the dots on the clubhead for a lesson / fitting.

Too bad each company is only doing either camera or doppler with no inter-operability between systems expected.

Edited by natureboy

Kevin

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7 hours ago, natureboy said:

I have to think the actual measurement of ball flight via Trackman is the most precise for what the ball is doing. But if IIRC clubhead info other than the path of geometric center is computed from an algorithm rather than measured. I understand it's a very accurate model with excellent algorithms for what conditions create what ball flights.

That said, things like point of strike on the face (gear effect) and dynamic lie angle and can affect ball flight, so in an ideal world it would be great to have radar for the ball flight plus cameras for the head angles.

Things like the strike point on the face are easy to determine, either by looking at the data (path-to-face says fade, ball has slight draw tilted axis) or by using a dry erase marker, spray, or other things on the clubface.

I've always found it to be far more important to get very accurate ball data. That's ultimately what we care about - where the ball goes/what the ball does.

7 hours ago, natureboy said:

My eyes were opened to the value of the HMT by some of Mark Crossfield's videos where he very helpfully works on point of strike / clubhead related issues with both good and less good golfers. For me that would be worth the trouble to put the dots on the clubhead for a lesson / fitting.

For many players it's not. For many of the coaches who OWN the Foresight, it's not. Several of them have told me that taking the time to put the dots on precisely, calibrate, etc. really isn't worth it and interrupts the flow of the lesson.

Plus, most bad golfers like yourself don't need to worry about strike location. You often have far bigger things to worry about than whether you're striking the ball a groove high, and when you're a better player, you often don't need a machine to tell you where you're striking the ball on the clubface, because you can feel it.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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10 hours ago, iacas said:

Things like the strike point on the face are easy to determine, either by looking at the data (path-to-face says fade, ball has slight draw tilted axis) or by using a dry erase marker, spray, or other things on the clubface.

I use both dry erase and spray myself. Seems like it would be extra informative if one could see characteristics like this quantified and displayed as part of the before / after comparison in a lesson or a fitting.

You can estimate (or back calculate?) what happened at impact based on a mis-match between the measured flight data and the imputed club data, but can you edit to get it to show up in the shot comparisons?

If not, I'd still consider it more of an inconvenience than a defecit, but I'd think the same about marking the clubface. Marking balls for indoors with radar would take a little time too, but admittedly you wouldn't have to do it for each new student.

10 hours ago, iacas said:

For many of the coaches who OWN the Foresight, it's not. Several of them have told me that taking the time to put the dots on precisely, calibrate, etc. really isn't worth it and interrupts the flow of the lesson.

It seems to me like it would be easy to take a few minutes before the lesson to mark up the club(s). And you'd get handier at it with time. If it's so much trouble to mark up the club, maybe those coaches should unload their unit on the used market. From what I've heard GC2s hold their value pretty well.

You have to calibrate radar units too, don't you? If you wanted to generate some less generic info for the clubhead (measurable trends / tendencies / improvements) using a radar unit, seems like that would take some extra time as well to measure and calculate and/or edit the data for side-by-side comparison.

10 hours ago, iacas said:

For many of the coaches who OWN the Foresight, it's not. Several of them have told me that taking the time to put the dots on precisely, calibrate, etc. really isn't worth it and interrupts the flow of the lesson.

Plus, most bad golfers like yourself don't need to worry about strike location. You often have far bigger things to worry about than whether you're striking the ball a groove high, and when you're a better player, you often don't need a machine to tell you where you're striking the ball on the clubface, because you can feel it.

I don't worry about strike a groove high. I know my swing is not that consistent or precise. I'd be more interested in patterns and tendencies and understanding club feedback. At this point I can usually feel thin & toe, but not with a lot of precision.

I think radar units are awesome with Trackman still the 'gold standard'. But why are you so down on a San Diego based company? Trackman is still more pricey by a lot. If the Foresight product is overpriced for what it delivers or is too inconvenient to use for most purchasers, I'm sure sales will lag.

Edited by natureboy

Kevin

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54 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I use both dry erase and spray myself. Seems like it would be extra informative if one could see characteristics like this quantified and displayed as part of the before / after comparison in a lesson or a fitting.

I feel as though you didn't really get the point of my message.

For better players, they often don't need a machine to tell them where they hit it on the face. For worse players, where they hit it on the face is likely not what you're working on - they're likely doing ten other worse things than hitting the ball a quarter inch toward the toe.

Strike location is less useful than ball flight data. The ball is ultimately what we care most about.

54 minutes ago, natureboy said:

It seems to me like it would be easy to take a few minutes before the lesson to mark up the club(s).

You can't mark up the club before the lesson if the student isn't there before the lesson, or you're teaching another student.

54 minutes ago, natureboy said:

You have to calibrate radar units too, don't you?

Not really. We set it up the first time and all that involves is lining it up and clicking the ball so the distance is figured out. That's it.

54 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I don't worry about strike a groove high. I know my swing is not that consistent or precise. I'd be more interested in patterns and tendencies and understanding club feedback. At this point I can usually feel thin & toe, but not with a lot of precision.

You likely have far more important issues than whether you hit the ball a little toward the toe or heel or whatever.

54 minutes ago, natureboy said:

But why are you so down on a San Diego based company?

Because their tech has not proven itself from what I've seen and tested. What's San Diego have to do with anything? FlightScope is headquartered in Orlando. And costs $12k or so, too.

If the technology has improved remarkably, in particular the ball tracking aspect of it, as I consider that more important, then I'd give it a shot. I'm just sharing my experiences and perspective thus far.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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23 hours ago, iacas said:

For better players, they often don't need a machine to tell them where they hit it on the face.

I agree. It isn't hard to tell if a shot was on the toe or heel, or thin or high on the club face. 

 

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Some more detailed info on what is measured:

 

Steve

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43 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Some more detailed info on what is measured:

 

FlightScope X3: less than both, and as good as Trackman.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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12 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Some more detailed info on what is measured:

 

Interesting, I though TM was up around $30K. Wonder if the 25 number included the software? I think Finney missed the dynamic lie angle too, but his twitter account seems to consider TM the non 'messing around' choice' so he might have been a little sold already and didn't need to be scrupulous to justify his choice.

The thing with optical approach of Foresight that grabs me now that visual tech is improving is if (this could be a big if) it can capture enough data for a good read on the ball's speed, angle of launch, spin rate and spin axis, then I'd expect the flight algorithms to be very accurate. The only thing changing beyond a certain point that will affect the ball is atmospheric and landing conditions. TM and FlightScope's data capture rate near impact with the radar may be a lot higher so they may be more sensitive to some sudden changes / manipulations?

I don't see why the full measured ball path is essential for general practice / coaching. If you're outdoors you can see the ball flight and where it lands and rolls. What you want to know is why it's doing whatever it's doing and if your intention to change things at impact is having an effect. I could see the fully measured flight as extra valuable if you want to measure how different intended shots (low spin / knockdown) behave in a particular atmosphere or on particular fairway conditions (it measures until the ball stops rolling, yes?).

11 hours ago, iacas said:

FlightScope X3: less than both, and as good as Trackman.

I have little experience with FlightScope other than some club testing on a likely older unit (I thought the roll was unrealistic, but the golf store probably had the hardest fairway setting to 'give' a customer yards with a new club).

If it's as accurate as you say, I'd take a hard look at it over the other two just on price. If you were a facility you could have 2 for the price of one and serve more golfers. 

But how can they not then be killing TM in the market at half the price with equal or even functionally comparable accuracy? Just reputation / marketing? Clunky interface? Are they lacking one or two features that TM has?

Edited by natureboy

Kevin

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3 hours ago, natureboy said:

But how can they not then be killing TM in the market at half the price with equal or even functionally comparable accuracy? Just reputation / marketing? Clunky interface? Are they lacking one or two features that TM has?

They're not the best at marketing.

We tested them side by side a few years ago with the Phantom camera. The FlightScope was much more accurate.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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I'm no expert on any of these devices. But I have been on a flight scope and if foresight is asking the same price point, they better be balls on accurate and have all the bells and whistles. 

Yours in earnest, Jason.
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10 hours ago, iacas said:

They're not the best at marketing.

We tested them side by side a few years ago with the Phantom camera. The FlightScope was much more accurate.

I was wondering about that. Does Trackman being first to market also give it an advantage?

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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9 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I was wondering about that. Does Trackman being first to market also give it an advantage?

It probably did when it comes to getting used by the PGA Tour and having their devices shown on the tee boxes. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Note: This thread is 2578 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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