Modernized Rules Discussion: Equipment

[iacas]

This is for the discussion of this portion of the new Modernized Rules.

Equipment

Use of Clubs Damaged During Round

Adding Clubs to Replace a Club Damaged During Round

Use of Distance-Measuring Devices

[iacas]

Not sure I like the first one.

Quote

• It would help players avoid the disqualification penalties that can arise today when a player hits a club against something in anger and then continues to use the club, not realizing that the shaft was slightly bent or some other damage had occurred.
• The player would be able to choose whether to continue using that club in its damaged state or to use another club; whereas today, for example, a player who damages a putter in anger is not allowed to use it for the rest of the round (even if it is still in a usable form) and so ends up having to putt with a wedge or another club

What if I "damage" the club in a way that helps me play the later holes in a round differently than the first holes? Couldn't I effectively have 15 or 16 clubs? Oh, shucks, in anger I bent the loft of this club…

Now, as I type that, you'd have to be pretty darn precise to alter your club during play and I don't honestly think that's going to happen very often, so I'm playing a little devil's advocate right now.

Plus I wonder what the interplay between "in anger" and the penalty strokes under the player behavior will be.

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I'm good with not replacing damaged clubs unless someone else damages it. This happens so infrequently, that simplifying this is fine. Plus given the previous rule about playing damaged clubs, even if they occur in anger, eliminates a potential loophole where a player can damage a club in anger and then replace it. 

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DMDs, fine, and I kinda hope the PGA Tour allows them. Even though I think they'll still be glacially slow, and now instead of a player getting yardages from a caddie, they're going to to be checking their yardages themselves, passing the range finder to the caddie, etc. But the 40-second rule may apply to them too… on the whole, I like these being part of the rules now and only excluded by Local Rule, not the opposite way.

[cutchemist42]

So does a DMD only mean rangefinders or does it expand to GPS measuring on phone apps?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

So does a DMD only mean rangefinders or does it expand to GPS measuring on phone apps?

GPS is a DMD.

You can use phones now even though a few years ago if your phone could even DO other things it was technically not allowable as a DMD.

[cutchemist42]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

GPS is a DMD.

You can use phones now even though a few years ago if your phone could even DO other things it was technically not allowable as a DMD.

Thanks for that clearup. I did think the phone wasnt allowed because of the other things. Should have asked in this forum sooner....

[DaveP043]

I have a problem with allowing a player to continue using a club he's damaged in anger.  If the damage isn't visible, that's one thing, but if a player bends his putter to the point its visibly evident, he should be required to take it out of play, even if its still usable.  I'm not sure quite how to write something that differentiates between the two cases (nearly invisible damage vs. visibly apparent), but I'd prefer to see it done that way.

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I have a problem with allowing a player to continue using a club he's damaged in anger.  If the damage isn't visible, that's one thing, but if a player bends his putter to the point its visibly evident, he should be required to take it out of play, even if its still usable.  I'm not sure quite how to write something that differentiates between the two cases (nearly invisible damage vs. visibly apparent), but I'd prefer to see it done that way.

If it isn't visibly damaged right now it's not damaged.

I also don't think players should be allowed to continue to play with a club damaged in anger, but how often is that going to happen that a player gets an advantage? If they bend their putter, they might STILL choose to putt with their wedge if it's damaged enough, and if it's barely damaged, they can keep using it.

So on the whole, though my gut is to be against it, I'm okay with it in the end (for now, reserve the right to change my mind after more than ten seconds of thought later on).

[Fourputt]

Use of Clubs Damaged During Round

Okay with this.

Adding Clubs to Replace a Club Damaged During Round

Okay here too.  I'm not sure that it will stay in it's present form though.  Seems that a player who makes a stroke and the head flies off the shaft shouldn't be penalized for the remainder of the round.  However, as it says on the USGA page, at our level of play, there is rarely a substitute club available anyway, so being allowed to replace it is mostly irrelevant.  Maybe allow a local rule to let a player replace a club damaged during normal play for organizations where it makes sense (PGA Tour is one)

Use of Distance-Measuring Devices

This is how I felt it should have been from the start.  Let us use them unless there is a local rule in place..

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Okay here too.  I'm not sure that it will stay in it's present form though.  Seems that a player who makes a stroke and the head flies off the shaft shouldn't be penalized for the remeinder of the round.  However, as it says on the USGA page, at our level of play, there is rarely a substitute club available anyway, so being allowed to replace it is mostly irrelevant.

Yeah, it almost never happens at any level. This eliminates a bunch of stuff about what caused the damage, how long you can take to get a substituted club, blah blah blah.

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I have a problem with allowing a player to continue using a club he's damaged in anger.  If the damage isn't visible, that's one thing, but if a player bends his putter to the point its visibly evident, he should be required to take it out of play, even if its still usable.  I'm not sure quite how to write something that differentiates between the two cases (nearly invisible damage vs. visibly apparent), but I'd prefer to see it done that way.

Judge Smails disagrees with you.

[No Mulligans]

Repairing damaged clubs... How would someone do that?  Carry an extra shaft with a grip on it, a saw, some epoxy glue, tape?

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

Repairing damaged clubs... How would someone do that?  Carry an extra shaft with a grip on it, a saw, some epoxy glue, tape?

No.

But if you bent the club, you could straighten the shaft or hosel out, or try to.

Page 15 in the rules PDF:

Quote

Repair the club by restoring it as nearly as possible to its condition before this damage happened, while still using the original grip, shaft and clubhead. But in doing so the player must not: 

• Unreasonably delay play (see Rule 5.6a), or

• Repair any damage from before the round. 

[bpburner]

I have mixed feelings on the replacement of a broken club.  I understand that it rarely occurs but, it does occur.  While I realize that the odds of this scenario are extremely small the first scenario that came to my head was a guy like Dustin Johnson is in contention for a major vs a guy like Brooks Koepka and D.J.'s driver implodes on the first hole.  Why not let the guy get a new driver?  How was the golfer supposed to know his equipment limitations / breaking point?  How does this justify potentially the largest penalty in golf besides D.Q.?

I am by no means a rules expert but actually thought that this was one of the rules that was correct or at least nearly correct to begin with.

My other question on this rule is if a guy starts one club short and a club breaks can he add a club mid-round?  I'm not suggesting this method by any means but there have been multiple occasions that I or playing partners don't have a full bag due to various reasons.

[Fourputt]

43 minutes ago, bpburner said:

My other question on this rule is if a guy starts one club short and a club breaks can he add a club mid-round?  I'm not suggesting this method by any means but there have been multiple occasions that I or playing partners don't have a full bag due to various reasons.

That won't change.  You are still entitled to select 14 clubs for the round, and nothing says when you must complete the selection.  The new rule would (apparently) only apply to a club that is damaged in the round.   You could add a club which does in effect replace the broken club  (No rule bars the player from carrying 2 identical clubs as long as they are both part of the 14 he has selected for the round), but once you have reached a total of 14, including the damaged one, you are full up.

[David in FL]

I'm ok with all of it.  And 2 big thumbs up on the DMD's.  Not sure why it's taken this long...

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I'm ok with all of it.  And 2 big thumbs up on the DMD's.  Not sure why it's taken this long...

It may not actually result in much of a change. All they did was flip the "yes/no" Local Rule. Most places had the LR in effect. Colleges use it. Many am events use it. Etc.

It's basically been this way for a long time. I suspect the PGA Tour still may not allow them. Maybe for a test event here or there.

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

It may not actually result in much of a change. All they did was flip the "yes/no" Local Rule. Most places had the LR in effect. Colleges use it. Many am events use it. Etc.

It's basically been this way for a long time. I suspect the PGA Tour still may not allow them. Maybe for a test event here or there.

Exactly what I meant.  I've never played in an event or tournament where the local rule was not in place.

[iacas]

Just now, David in FL said:

Exactly what I meant.  I've never played in an event or tournament where the local rule was not in place.

So my point is… nothing will really change. They saw that "yes" was the more popular option, so they defaulted to "yes," and effectively, little has changed except that they'll save ink in printing out the LR for DMDs on the player information sheets.