High Iron forgiveness

[lastings]

aright..  bear with me here.  

so, in anticipation of my club fitting and subsequent purchase of new irons next week, I was over at the shop hitting some balls today.  I have done this plenty of times now, and I am pretty sure I am leaning towards Mizuno MP-25s.  So, I was hitting that for a bit.   But, sitting by me were a set of Mp-5's.  Mizuno's newest blade iron.  I took a few swings for fun, because there is noting like the feel of puring a good blade.  

side note:  I am well aware that I am no where near capable of carrying a set of blades, we don't need to have "the talk"  

The club I happen to be hitting was an 8-iron.  And I was just on-the-money with this club swing after swing.   It felt amazing.  and that got me thinking...  

--now, here's the point --

When you start working with your high irons, (8,9,PW), what is the actual difference, forgiveness wise, between clubs geared towards low-handicappers and geared towards mid handicappers?  

So, I was thinking about it, and decided to give it a bit of a test.   I pulled out the MP-25 8-iron and hit 15 shots, then the mp-5 8-iron adn hit 15 shots.  good shots felt great with both clubs (albeit a bit better with the blade).  Mishits were mishits with both clubs, and felt pretty similar.   Then reviewed the results.    I pulled out the two worst shots, one a terrible thin shot with the MP-25 that cut to the right, and a snap hook with the MP-5.   these were both terrible swings, and not really representative of the work the club was doing.  i.e..   no amount of forgiveness was saving either of these swings.  so I was left with 14 shots from each club.   

disbursement between the two was nearly identical.  The only difference was that I appeared to pushing the MP-5 a tad more right, and getting a tad more right-to-left draw bringing it back to the middle.   But, ultimately, we were looking at nearly identical results between the clubs, and there was no noticeable difference between either club on mishits.   

so..   this begs the question.   When we talk about forgiveness in clubs, is this really only represented in the mid to long irons?   and, might I benefit myself by opting to go with a blended Mizuno set with an 8,9,PW in the mp-5?  

Edited March 17, 2017 by lastings

[woodzie264]

Great question.  I have no answer and i'm not qualified to give one, but if you saw no real difference between them, why get the blades (I presume that they are more expensive)?...for a slightly better feel on good swings? Nothing wrong with that, I wasn't just curious

[lastings]

2 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

Great question.  I have no answer and i'm not qualified to give one, but if you saw no real difference between them, why get the blades (I presume that they are more expensive)?...for a slightly better feel on good swings? Nothing wrong with that, I wasn't just curious

All of Mizuno's clubs are interchangeable for the same price.  

There was definitely a difference in feel on the good shots.  however, that difference in feel didn't really represent a difference in quality.   The blades may be a bit more workable, which may be an added incentive down the road, if I improve.   But, honestly, they are just prettier.  

 

[woodzie264]

Just now, lastings said:

All of Mizuno's clubs are interchangeable for the same price.  

There was definitely a difference in feel on the good shots.  however, that difference in feel didn't really represent a difference in quality.   The blades may be a bit more workable, which may be an added incentive down the road, if I improve.   But, honestly, they are just prettier.  

 

Cool, I didn't realize they were priced the same...thanks for that

[lastings]

Just now, woodzie264 said:

Cool, I didn't realize they were priced the same...thanks for that

Yeah, it's a cool thing about Mizuno.  You and build blended sets, upgrade or swap out shafts, and swap out grips all at no additional cost..  

[Dave2512]

Bigger face and wider sole typically with a GI iron compared to a blade, should be more forgiving. I'd look at the numbers after the fitting. IMO casually demoing clubs to vague targets in wide spaces or sims can be deceiving. I got to a point where I had to decide what looked better, pretty clubs or pretty good misses, chose the latter. 

[roamin]

Like @woodzie264, I'm in no way qualified to give you a real answer on this but the timing was funny for me and it's the internet, so I'm more than happy to share my opinion.

My dad gave me an old set of Royal blades years ago that he said he played for a while and "really liked". I had the 8-iron re-gripped just last week and have been hitting plastic balls at home with it. I've been hitting lots of nice shots, center-face, working it left and right and thought, hey, these aren't so bad.

Similar to these:  

I took it to the range today and after warming up with my normal clubs (Cleveland CG-4), I hit 20 shots with the Royal blade. The shots looked ~okay (lower and maybe shorter), and I could work the ball left and right, but everything felt like a hitting a rock with a hard metal brick. If you ask me...that club doesn't have a sweet spot. 

I hit one more shot afterwards with my normal 8-iron, instantly new it was a little out on the toe but that had negligible effect on ball flight and yardage. Compared to the blade, though, it was like I had just hit the ball with a luxury, 800-thread count, sweet-spot padded with golden butter.  

So, I think there is an obvious difference at wide enough points on the spectrum.

One thing I noticed about the clubs you mentioned (MP-5 vs. MP-25)...the GI "features" of the MP-25s appear to be very minimal. (confession, I only looked at pictures). A little bit of perimeter weighting and a shallow, half cavity-back at the top of the face.

Other than that, they look like the same irons and both appear to have quite a bit of weight re-distributed to the bottom for launch and forgiveness. Also, the claim on the MP-5s is that they're the ultimate blend of "classic muscle back and a players' cavity design" because of their new "channel back" (okay, I read a little, too).

Unless your hitting them way up or out/in on the face, seems reasonable to me that most shots could feel and perform similarly.

On the other hand, the full CB, perimeter weighting, and softer metal of my CG4s makes them act like one big sweet-spot compared to a traditional blade design.

Just my two-cents, though. YMMV. 

(edit: with a second glance, the MP-25s do appear to have more perimeter weighting and a deeper cavity that I noticed at first)

[lastings]

just want to bump this..   fitting is tomorrow, So anyone with a bit of insight here, your thoughts would be greatly appreciated..   

 

thanks!

[paininthenuts]

On 3/17/2017 at 9:14 PM, lastings said:

aright..  bear with me here.  

so, in anticipation of my club fitting and subsequent purchase of new irons next week, I was over at the shop hitting some balls today.  I have done this plenty of times now, and I am pretty sure I am leaning towards Mizuno MP-25s.  So, I was hitting that for a bit.   But, sitting by me were a set of Mp-5's.  Mizuno's newest blade iron.  I took a few swings for fun, because there is noting like the feel of puring a good blade.  

side note:  I am well aware that I am no where near capable of carrying a set of blades, we don't need to have "the talk"  

The club I happen to be hitting was an 8-iron.  And I was just on-the-money with this club swing after swing.   It felt amazing.  and that got me thinking...  

--now, here's the point --

When you start working with your high irons, (8,9,PW), what is the actual difference, forgiveness wise, between clubs geared towards low-handicappers and geared towards mid handicappers?  

So, I was thinking about it, and decided to give it a bit of a test.   I pulled out the MP-25 8-iron and hit 15 shots, then the mp-5 8-iron adn hit 15 shots.  good shots felt great with both clubs (albeit a bit better with the blade).  Mishits were mishits with both clubs, and felt pretty similar.   Then reviewed the results.    I pulled out the two worst shots, one a terrible thin shot with the MP-25 that cut to the right, and a snap hook with the MP-5.   these were both terrible swings, and not really representative of the work the club was doing.  i.e..   no amount of forgiveness was saving either of these swings.  so I was left with 14 shots from each club.   

disbursement between the two was nearly identical.  The only difference was that I appeared to pushing the MP-5 a tad more right, and getting a tad more right-to-left draw bringing it back to the middle.   But, ultimately, we were looking at nearly identical results between the clubs, and there was no noticeable difference between either club on mishits.   

so..   this begs the question.   When we talk about forgiveness in clubs, is this really only represented in the mid to long irons?   and, might I benefit myself by opting to go with a blended Mizuno set with an 8,9,PW in the mp-5?  

Buy a set of Ping Karstens and let them do the work for you

[Lihu]

On 3/17/2017 at 11:37 PM, roamin said:

I took it to the range today and after warming up with my normal clubs (Cleveland CG-4), I hit 20 shots with the Royal blade. The shots looked ~okay (lower and maybe shorter), and I could work the ball left and right, but everything felt like a hitting a rock with a hard metal brick. If you ask me...that club doesn't have a sweet spot. 

I hit one more shot afterwards with my normal 8-iron, instantly new it was a little out on the toe but that had negligible effect on ball flight and yardage. Compared to the blade, though, it was like I had just hit the ball with a luxury, 800-thread count, sweet-spot padded with golden butter. 

That's because like the rest of us you mishit the clubs. Mishits feel terrible with players clubs and the faster you swing the more terrible they'll feel.

 

40 minutes ago, lastings said:

just want to bump this..   fitting is tomorrow, So anyone with a bit of insight here, your thoughts would be greatly appreciated..  

I got new woods instead of a new set of irons then pulled out my i20 in lieu of my MP-52 (which are a harder to hit club than the MP-32), and I still mishit the crap out of it all the time on the course but the results seem to be a tiny bit better and it really feels a lot better and makes me "feel good" about my terrible game. The distances go about the same and up to 8i I can't feel that much difference, but when I pulled out my MP-52 4i my first thought was how terrible it would feel with mediocre results. When I pull out the i20-4i I only think about how mediocre my shot is going to be and get a high trajectory to boot.

So, the forgiveness really makes me feel better about my terrible shots!

Edited March 20, 2017 by Lihu
verb tense; explicit pronoun

[Wanzo]

On 3/17/2017 at 4:14 PM, lastings said:

When we talk about forgiveness in clubs, is this really only represented in the mid to long irons?

IMHO, It's just magnified in the longer irons. I personally like the idea of blended sets as long as the gaps work for distances. I would lean towareds what gives you the most confidence when standing over the ball, assuming results are similar. 

[roamin]

11 hours ago, Lihu said:

you mishit the clubs

Yeah, I know, just my attempt at humor. I'm sure it has a sweet spot, just don't think I can find it with my swing. 

[Lihu]

6 hours ago, roamin said:

Yeah, I know, just my attempt at humor. I'm sure it has a sweet spot, just don't think I can find it with my swing. 

That statement was not directed towards your swing only, I just meant that most of us miss the sweet spot.

[1badbadger]

With short irons and wedges, the amount of loft and spin generated, along with a shorter shaft makes them easier to hit straight. Perimeter weighting has a little bit of an effect, and will usually create a little higher trajectory, but as irons get longer the benefits are more apparent.  

The MP5 and MP25 have almost the exact same specs with just a couple slight differences, so they will make a great combo set.

[lastings]

Well..   I did it.   pulled the trigger on the new set of irons.  

Went with the Blended Mizuno set.  MP-H5 in my 4 & 5, MP-25 in the 6,7,8, MP-5 in the 9 & PW.  

deciding to go with the Mp-5 in the high irons was the toughest decision.   I mean, the last thing I would want is for my 9 & PW to be the most difficult clubs in the bag to hit.  But, after spending about an hour and a half in the launch monitor hitting just 9 irons, I think it was the best choice for me.   

swing after swing after swing, I really could not tell a difference forgiveness wise between the two clubs.  but, the thing that pushed me towards the MP-5 was the fact that while distance was nearly identical between the two, the MP-5 was producing a different ball flight that created a steeper decent angle and an additional 500 rpms of spin.  

I really hope i didn't make a poor decision, but at least I feel like I put in the requisite amount of work, and testing, and research to make the the most informed decision possible.  That said, there is only so much you can learn from hitting off a mat and a launch monitor.   We'll find out in about a month when I'm able to get these guys out on the course.  

 

 

 

[1badbadger]

52 minutes ago, lastings said:

Well..   I did it.   pulled the trigger on the new set of irons.  

Went with the Blended Mizuno set.  MP-H5 in my 4 & 5, MP-25 in the 6,7,8, MP-5 in the 9 & PW.  

deciding to go with the Mp-5 in the high irons was the toughest decision.   I mean, the last thing I would want is for my 9 & PW to be the most difficult clubs in the bag to hit.  But, after spending about an hour and a half in the launch monitor hitting just 9 irons, I think it was the best choice for me.   

swing after swing after swing, I really could not tell a difference forgiveness wise between the two clubs.  but, the thing that pushed me towards the MP-5 was the fact that while distance was nearly identical between the two, the MP-5 was producing a different ball flight that created a steeper decent angle and an additional 500 rpms of spin.  

I really hope i didn't make a poor decision, but at least I feel like I put in the requisite amount of work, and testing, and research to make the the most informed decision possible.  That said, there is only so much you can learn from hitting off a mat and a launch monitor.   We'll find out in about a month when I'm able to get these guys out on the course.  

 

 

 

Congratulations!  Nothing is more fun than getting new sticks.  Don't second-guess your decision...you thoroughly tested them and did your homework, and made an informed choice.  I think you'll really like them and be glad you got the models you ordered.