Lexi Thompson's 4 Stroke Penalty at the ANA

[Dave Saari]

There's no question that Lexi violated the rules and was appropriately penalized in accordance with the rules. In an earlier post, I argued that the rule about replacing the ball in "exactly" the same place after marking is silly because nobody can do that -- the only question is how close to the "exact" spot can you actually get. The revised rules that take effect in January 2019 will appropriately fix this situation -- the player will be responsible to do his or her best to put it back in the proper position. If an opponent disagrees they can call it on the spot, but no retroactive review will be considered.

Even those who are adamant that Lexi made an egregious error in her inexact replacement of the ball agree that it gave her no competitive advantage. She simply failed to replace it close enough to the same spot to comply with the letter of the rules, in their judgment. I would suggest that, if the rules fanatics really had detailed video surveillance of their own marking and replacement of balls on the green, they would find that they don't do as well as think they do. Getting it within a half inch in each and every instance is probably about the best they would do.

It's obvious to me from the video that Lexi was rotating the ball to line up a line or mark on her ball or to move the logo away from the top position, and she simply misplaced it about a half inch off from the original spot. Under the current rules that resulted in a four stroke penalty, no matter who alerted the officials to the infraction. Some people are insisting she knew she had done it -- I believe she did it inadvertently. Under the current rules, that is irrelevant. In my opinion this defies common sense, and the 2019 rules revision will correct that. It's about time.

[DrvFrShow]

The problem with people being able to call in from their sofas is that it only affects the groups that are being followed on television. It doesn't affect the field equally. A player in one of the threesomes that isn't being followed doesn't receive the same level of scrutiny. Now the argument here is that they might not be in the money, but that doesn't matter. There could be a player who is in the top 10 and is receiving virtually no coverage, and thus virtually no scrutiny from the armchair officials. So shouldn't the playing field be level? Shouldn't all players in a televised tournament receive the same level of scrutiny? In the interest of fairness, yes. That means people shouldn't be able to phone in calls from their sofas. The tournament should be called by the officials on the course, and by the code of honor among the players.

But what do I know. I'm just a weekend hacker.

Also it's like 1/4" at most.

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by DrvFrShow

[Shorty]

19 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

i know the placement was absurd but honestly asking, how much deviation is allowed? I mean every marked ball that is replaced is never the same as before despite our best effort.

Let's just say that half an inch to the left of where it was is way too much  and can't be done accidentally.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Shorty

[Hategolf]

31 minutes ago, iacas said:

"Every major should have an official watching the TV" Rich Lerner said, and Chamblee said "yeah but they could still miss, and it's important to get it right.".....

There..this is now starting to make sense to me. If the officials miss it, then be it. It happens in other sports....yeah yeah yeah..Golf is not other sport, but it is. 

 

[Shorty]

7 minutes ago, Dave Saari said:

 

Even those who are adamant that Lexi made an egregious error in her inexact replacement of the ball agree that it gave her no competitive advantage.

Absolutely not.  Not if there was a spike mark or depression she was avoiding, which would seem to be the case.

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, Dave Saari said:

The revised rules that take effect in January 2019 will appropriately fix this situation -- the player will be responsible to do his or her best to put it back in the proper position.

I don't think those rules will do that in this type of situation. I don't think this is "reasonable." That proposed rule has more to do with estimating where a ball crossed the line in a penalty area… that sort of thing (like Tiger on what I think was hole #14 at the Players Championship a few years ago when he won).

I don't think that proposed rule would have saved her here. She clearly didn't put it back in the same spot, and could reasonably have done much better.

17 minutes ago, Dave Saari said:

Getting it within a half inch in each and every instance is probably about the best they would do.

I do better than that. She was more than 1/2" away.

17 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

The problem with people being able to call in from their sofas is that it only affects the groups that are being followed on television. It doesn't affect the field equally. A player in one of the threesomes that isn't being followed doesn't receive the same level of scrutiny.

Life's not fair. Neither is golf.

17 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

Also it's like 1/4" at most.

I don't think so.

A golf ball is 1.68 inches. That's about 340px in the image above. Lexi's ball moves from 340 to 480px, a move of 140px.

140/340*1.68 = 0.7". Closer to 3/4".

And that's just in two dimensions. It could be a bit more than 0.7".

9 minutes ago, Hategolf said:

There..this is now starting to make sense to me. If the officials miss it, then be it. It happens in other sports....yeah yeah yeah..Golf is not other sport, but it is.

That doesn't make any sense. And golf is not the same as other sports.

[roamin]

10 minutes ago, Dave Saari said:

In an earlier post, I argued that the rule about replacing the ball in "exactly" the same place after marking is silly because nobody can do that -- the only question is how close to the "exact" spot can you actually get.

No one's arguing about individual blades of grass. She moved the ball. Plain and simple. She placed the marker down to the side and moved the ball over in front of it.

At worst, it was outright cheating. At best, a stupid (and in no way, unnoticeable) mistake.

 

[Dave Saari]

Quote

Not if there was a spike mark or depression she was avoiding, which would seem to be the case.

Looking at the video, there does not seem to be a spike mark or a depression. But, of course, the video is not perfectly clear. If she had marked from behind the ball, she would probably have done a better job, but she was probably trying to stand clear of the other mark that you can see in the video, so she did it from the side which could have resulted in parallax and an imperfect view of the situation.

At the end of the day, only Lexi knows if she was aware of the error or not. The rest of us are only speculating.

[Hategolf]

6 minutes ago, Shorty said:

Let's just say that half an inch to the left of where it was is way too much  and can't be done accidentally.

Is that so?...If one is looking at the hole while lining up the ball, or if one is distracted  a golfer can accidentally misplace the ball.  I don't see that being an impossibility. 

 

[roamin]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

A golf ball is 1.68 inches. That's about 340px in the image above. Lexi's ball moves from 340 to 480px, a move of 140px.

140/340*1.68 = 0.7". Closer to 3/4".

I love it! Taking the camera angle into account, it may have been even more, no? 

[Dave Saari]

And you guys know for an absolute fact that the camera did not move while recording the episode? It was either a hand held camera or a fixed camera located a long distance away.

[DrvFrShow]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Life's not fair. Neither is golf.

 

That's the poorest excuse I've read. Just because "phoning it in" is allowed now doesn't mean it should be. They have enough officials on the course to cover the event. We'll have to agree to disagree on people being able to phone in stuff from their sofas then.

 

[Shorty]

10 minutes ago, Hategolf said:

Is that so?...If one is looking at the hole while lining up the ball, or if one is distracted  a golfer can accidentally misplace the ball.  I don't see that being an impossibility. 

 

In 45 years of golf I can say with certainty that I have never even been close to misaligning my ball after marking it due to distraction.  Now that's not to say that I haven't done exactly what Lexi did in a casual round when I'm on top of a poorly repaired pitch mark. Half an inch to an inch is a hell of a long way.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Shorty

[DrvFrShow]

2 minutes ago, Dave Saari said:

And you guys know for an absolute fact that the camera did not move while recording the episode? It was either a hand held camera or a fixed camera located a long distance away.

Even fixed cameras are known to track so it's not absolute.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Dave Saari said:

And you guys know for an absolute fact that the camera did not move while recording the episode? It was either a hand held camera or a fixed camera located a long distance away.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media?guid=sYMwx39A13jT_vuMmWgS0zE2ce1anj_G

The camera does not move

 

[bpburner]

On 4/2/2017 at 9:30 PM, Jack Watson said:

I think the SF Giants got screwed because of incorrect ball strike calls during the 2016 playoffs.

They actually need to be replayed now.

See how ridiculous this sounds?

But I have video proof!

100% agree and while we are at it there was a hold during the Cowboy's playoff game which kept them from winning that I just found so 5 months later let's fix this.. Or more realistic is the Atlanta Braves "infield fly in 2012"  after the fact it was admitted there was a mistake but non the less never corrected the Cards went on to play.   I can live with a real "ump/ref" screw up better than a random call in.

I'm probably not the first to present this question but what happens if this occurred on Sunday and is called Monday?

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by bpburner

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Dave Saari said:

And you guys know for an absolute fact that the camera did not move while recording the episode? It was either a hand held camera or a fixed camera located a long distance away.

I lined up the other player's mark, the toe of Lexi's putter, and a few spots on the green. The camera didn't move enough. The video comparison is accurate.

11 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

That's the poorest excuse I've read. Just because "phoning it in" is allowed now doesn't mean it should be. 

It "should be" because it gets us closer to the truth. Lexi violated the Rules of Golf. She failed in her responsibility.

11 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

They have enough officials on the course to cover the event.

No, they don't, and that's not their job.

11 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on people being able to phone in stuff from their sofas then.

Cool.

2 minutes ago, bpburner said:

I'm probably not the first to present this question but what happens if this occurred on Sunday and is called Monday?

Read the rules. Or the many posts in this topic which answer that question. The hard line is drawn at the close of competition.

Golf is not other sports.

[bpburner]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

I lined up the other player's mark, the toe of Lexi's putter, and a few spots on the green. The camera didn't move enough. The video comparison is accurate.

It "should be" because it gets us closer to the truth. Lexi violated the Rules of Golf. She failed in her responsibility.

No, they don't, and that's not their job.

Cool.

Read the rules. Or the many posts in this topic which answer that question. The hard line is drawn at the close of competition.

Golf is not other sports.

OK golf is special... I understand the rules but don't understand the application/concept of this particular situation, similar to law there is the law and then there is the legal interpretation/understanding/meaning.  As an avid golfer the rules of golf are screwed up.  Can you name another sport in which the highest level athlete can't tell you that they broke the rule OR EVEN UNDERSTAND THE RULING and on top of it all be penalized day(s) later for the infraction.