NFL 2017-2018

[b101]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

**** the NFL.

Absolute bullshit that has real effects on the post-season.

More specifically? Quite a few 'interesting' calls this season so far.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, b101 said:

More specifically? Quite a few 'interesting' calls this season so far.

Pats-Steelers

[b101]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Pats-Steelers

Seconded - the 'catch' rule has to be cleared up. There are two calls that I really dislike at the moment; that one and the fumble through the end zone resulting in a touch-back (notably this one: 

The clock run-off is a bit of a killer as well - that Lions-Falcons game earlier in the season was a shocker for that. I'm waiting for our 24hr blackout on Steelers-Pats to clear so that I can watch it in full tomorrow morning.

[iacas]

34 minutes ago, b101 said:

I'm waiting for our 24hr blackout on Steelers-Pats to clear so that I can watch it in full tomorrow morning.

It goes well beyond that lone play, though on that play you won’t find any angle that shows his hand not under the ball.

The Pats never hold? They held on the game-ending INT. They blocked in the back on a punt. They blatantly held on an earlier running TD. The list is long. The overturned TD leads it.

[Marty2019]

Congratulations to the Jaguars for earning their first trip to the postseason in 10 years.  

Go Jags! 

DuuuuuuVaaaaaal   !!!

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Marty2019

[Groucho Valentine]

Who says the NFL and Roger Goddell hate the Patriots? 

MERRRRY CHRISTMAS! 

[mcanadiens]

I was rather surprised by that call in Pittsburgh as well.

In the old days, before, instant replay, receivers almost always got the benefit of the doubt. If it looked like a catch, it was a catch. When replay came in, it seemed they mostly used it to review possible trapping of the ball. Most of those calls were pretty non-controversial. With the focus now on "demonstrating control", they've really got into some pretty gray areas. The basic concept is that there is some moment in time when the would-be receiver has the ball and becomes a "runner". So you get a lot of very harsh assessments of any catch made while going to the ground. Watching the Jesse James video, I don't see much "loss of control".

Instead of receivers getting the benefit of the doubt, as they used to, it seems like any significant reception has to be proven true by the replay. 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by mcanadiens

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Who says the NFL and Roger Goddell hate the Patriots?

Nobody.

Ever.

Just now, mcanadiens said:

I was rather surprised by that call in Pittsburgh as well.

In the old days, before, instant replay, receivers almost always got the benefit of the doubt. If it looked like a catch, it was a catch. When replay came in, it seemed they mostly used it to review possible trapping of the ball. Most of those calls were pretty non-controversial. With the focus now on "demonstrating control", they've really got into some pretty gray areas. The basic concept is that there is some moment in time when the would-be receiver has the ball and becomes a "runner". So you get a lot of very harsh assessments of any catch made while going to the ground. Watching the Jesse James video, I don't see much a "loss of control".

Instead of receivers getting the benefit of the doubt, as they used to, it seems like any significant reception has to be proven true by the replay. 

Not one view showed the ball hitting the ground without James' hand underneath it. To overturn the call on the field the evidence had to be definitive. No such evidence exists.

And that's not the only call. There are ten others. Complete bullshit that their O-Line never holds. They held or PI'd Rogers on the penultimate play, the INT. Two penalties for four yards. Uh huh.

Gronk pointed at and taunted a Steeler. That's an automatic taunting penalty. Didn't happen.

[Papa Steve 55]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

Pats-Steelers

Don't know if your one of the whiney 'we was robbed' fans but....

Too bad the Steeler secondary never heard of that tight end on NE,  87, Gronk something, they might have covered him once in the second half. And that goal line slant route that Seattle proved was so effective vs the Pats.....

Play was called correctly as the rule is currently written, that's the way you have to call the game.

[iacas]

38 minutes ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

Don't know if your one of the whiney 'we was robbed' fans but....

Too bad the Steeler secondary never heard of that tight end on NE,  87, Gronk something, they might have covered him once in the second half. And that goal line slant route that Seattle proved was so effective vs the Pats.....

Play was called correctly as the rule is currently written, that's the way you have to call the game.

Bullshit.

There’s not a single view that shows his hand didn’t stay under the ball.

And that’s one of MANY.

Gronk’s own taunt is an automatic foul against any team not from Foxboro.

Watch the tape.

[Papa Steve 55]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

Bullshit.

There’s not a single view that shows his hand didn’t stay under the ball.

And that’s one of MANY.

Gronk’s own taunt is an automatic foul against any team not from Foxboro.

Watch the tape.

It was very clear to anybody not A Stealers fan that his right hand was on the SIDE of the ball and the BACK of his left hand was on top of the ball, and the ball was on the ground, but yeah, that's possession. You better hope the players don't have the attitude of 'we lost but its not our fault' or they will be watching another Super Bowl on TV.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

It was very clear to anybody not A Stealers fan that his right hand was on the SIDE of the ball

Wrong.

Cowboys fan there (I know him from another area, so this tweet immediately sprung to mind).

Definitely NOT a Steelers fan there.

I could post thousands of others from NOT Steelers fans. But hey, you were so clever as to have written "Stealers," so I can't argue with that! You've got me!

Here's the thing, too… you can't show me a SINGLE photo that proves his hand, fingers, whatever weren't under the ball. Go ahead. I'll wait. And definitive evidence is required, as the ruling on the field was touchdown.

This makes three times now the Pats have benefited from the rule. Once when they won a game and the call was not overturned even though the player (Cooks) did LESS (two feet down, not a knee, not an elbow). "New England’s Brandin Cooks caught a 25-yard touchdown pass with 23 seconds left to beat Houston 36-33 on Sept. 24. He caught the ball with both feet in the end zone but lost control as he hit the ground out of bounds. It was ruled a touchdown, and Riveron did not overturn it upon review."

The ball came out of his grasp and the only thing he'd done was to tap two feet in when he landed. James had two feet in, pulled the ball in, went to a knee, went to an elbow, and extended the ball out, while keeping his right hand under the ball (yeah, it moved, we aren't blind), and a TD was called on the field.

Seferian-Jenkins, man, I don't even know what to say about this… the guy runs for five yards with the ball and never loses possession to anyone else. Call him OB… at the one-foot line, but giving the ball to the Patriots when he has control when he lands OB through the end zone, and he has control when he breaks the plane?

C'mon.

1 hour ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

You better hope the players don't have the attitude of 'we lost but its not our fault' or they will be watching another Super Bowl on TV.

Just sucks that the other teams in the league have to not only out-play the Patriots, they have to out-play the referees, too.

I'm not a "the referees suck" kinda guy. But sometimes, particularly when a game-winning TD is taken away in the last 20 seconds of a game, their actions directly change the game.

Never mind the holding on the game-ending INT. Or the many other times Patriots OL players hold. Yeah yeah, there's holding on every play in the NFL if you want to look for it… but… the refs never once looked for it Sunday against the Patriots.

Nope. That's not hold on a TD there. I mean, you can't expect an NFL referee to see a guy with his arm completely around the neck and collarbones of an opposing player. It's not like the Patriot player's white armband stands out against the black Steelers uniform.

Nope. Not a hold there either. Patriots players have simply learned how to use The Force to keep players within the area of their arms.

No flag there. Why, never mind that the guy had to catch the ball one-handed because the Patriot was clutching his other arm. No harm no foul, and no flag, right? You throw the flag anyway, and let the opposing team decline.

That's a penalty. Not just that, but the Patriot is clutching and pulling him and slowing him down from the get-go.

Never mind the automatic taunting penalty on your frat boy Gronk, who should have been suspended for more than one game, but hey, he's a Patriot, and they were playing the Steelers, so… let 'im play, and don't penalize him for what is an automatic penalty for the rest of the league.

---

Take off your homer glasses, @Papa Steve 55. The Patriots were lucky to escape with a victory. The Steelers were down two all-pro defenders. They lost AB early in the game. And they still beat the Patriots, only to have the refs steal it from them on a bullshit overturned call with NO definitive evidence.

BTW, the rule says initial contact with the ground. How much more do you need?

Oh, and there you go. This was after he took a step and pulled the football in to his chest.

BTW, notice how big his right hand is - it's wrapped around half of the football.

[mcanadiens]

Ha. Ha. The hold on #28 at the top looked pretty bad.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Wrong.

Cowboys fan there (I know him from another area, so this tweet immediately sprung to mind).

Definitely NOT a Steelers fan there.

I could post thousands of others from NOT Steelers fans. But hey, you were so clever as to have written "Stealers," so I can't argue with that! You've got me!

Here's the thing, too… you can't show me a SINGLE photo that proves his hand, fingers, whatever weren't under the ball. Go ahead. I'll wait. And definitive evidence is required, as the ruling on the field was touchdown.

This makes three times now the Pats have benefited from the rule. Once when they won a game and the call was not overturned even though the player (Cooks) did LESS (two feet down, not a knee, not an elbow). "New England’s Brandin Cooks caught a 25-yard touchdown pass with 23 seconds left to beat Houston 36-33 on Sept. 24. He caught the ball with both feet in the end zone but lost control as he hit the ground out of bounds. It was ruled a touchdown, and Riveron did not overturn it upon review."

The ball came out of his grasp and the only thing he'd done was to tap two feet in when he landed. James had two feet in, pulled the ball in, went to a knee, went to an elbow, and extended the ball out, while keeping his right hand under the ball (yeah, it moved, we aren't blind), and a TD was called on the field.

Seferian-Jenkins, man, I don't even know what to say about this… the guy runs for five yards with the ball and never loses possession to anyone else. Call him OB… at the one-foot line, but giving the ball to the Patriots when he has control when he lands OB through the end zone, and he has control when he breaks the plane?

C'mon.

Just sucks that the other teams in the league have to not only out-play the Patriots, they have to out-play the referees, too.

I'm not a "the referees suck" kinda guy. But sometimes, particularly when a game-winning TD is taken away in the last 20 seconds of a game, their actions directly change the game.

Never mind the holding on the game-ending INT. Or the many other times Patriots OL players hold. Yeah yeah, there's holding on every play in the NFL if you want to look for it… but… the refs never once looked for it Sunday against the Patriots.

Nope. That's not hold on a TD there. I mean, you can't expect an NFL referee to see a guy with his arm completely around the neck and collarbones of an opposing player. It's not like the Patriot player's white armband stands out against the black Steelers uniform.

Nope. Not a hold there either. Patriots players have simply learned how to use The Force to keep players within the area of their arms.

No flag there. Why, never mind that the guy had to catch the ball one-handed because the Patriot was clutching his other arm. No harm no foul, and no flag, right? You throw the flag anyway, and let the opposing team decline.

That's a penalty. Not just that, but the Patriot is clutching and pulling him and slowing him down from the get-go.

Never mind the automatic taunting penalty on your frat boy Gronk, who should have been suspended for more than one game, but hey, he's a Patriot, and they were playing the Steelers, so… let 'im play, and don't penalize him for what is an automatic penalty for the rest of the league.

---

Take off your homer glasses, @Papa Steve 55. The Patriots were lucky to escape with a victory. The Steelers were down two all-pro defenders. They lost AB early in the game. And they still beat the Patriots, only to have the refs steal it from them on a bullshit overturned call with NO definitive evidence.

BTW, the rule says initial contact with the ground. How much more do you need?

Oh, and there you go. This was after he took a step and pulled the football in to his chest.

BTW, notice how big his right hand is - it's wrapped around half of the football.

Are you suggesting that the league cheats to favor the Patriots?  Because that is kinda how this post collectively comes across.

Didnt the league spend like 8 billion dollars a couple of years ago to try and bury them with the deflate gate nonsense?  If they loved the Pats I’d have thought they’d try to quash that whole thing from the git go.

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Are you suggesting that the league cheats to favor the Patriots?  Because that is kinda how this post collectively comes across.

Nope. Not at all. The first thing my post did was disprove Papa's homer idea that only Steelers fans think that wasn't a catch. The vast majority of NFL fans seem to think that was a catch, and I'd wager that if you polled neutral fans, they'd say "catch." SInce he said "nobody" or something similar, providing two examples was enough to prove him wrong.

I'm saying the Patriots were the recipient of some pretty blatantly blown calls in their favor in this particular game, including the game-winning TD which was taken away from the Steelers, despite no conclusive evidence to overturn the call on the field, and despite the rule saying "initial contact" when James had five points of contact down, pulled the ball in, and extended it out…

I'm saying that the Patriots have somehow come out on the correct side of this now three times in similar situations this year. That's in spite of the fact that the one time the call was upheld, it had some of the strongest evidence to overturn - the guy did nothing and the football popped out below his hands and hit the ground.

10 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Didnt the league spend like 8 billion dollars a couple of years ago to try and bury them with the deflate gate nonsense?  If they loved the Pats I’d have thought they’d try to quash that whole thing from the git go.

They fought tooth and nail on Deflategate because it went beyond that - it went to the courts, it went to all of the sports leagues abilities for the commissioner to do certain things… It went above and beyond whether Tom Brady deflated - or instructed others to deflate - the footballs. It went to the CBA, it went to the power the commissioner yields, etc.

The league also destroyed the Spygate tapes/evidence, IIRC.

[mcanadiens]

For what it is worth. ...

I hate the Steelers and I hate the Steelers more than I like any team. But, that was a brutal call. It was the harshest possible interpretation on a bad rule. The hand never left the ball. It may have shifted slightly when he brought it down in the end zone, but that can't be a loss of control.

The NFL needs to sort this stuff. This is hardly the only dodgy catch call in recent years.

 

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

For what it is worth. ...

I hate the Steelers and I hate the Steelers more than I like any team. But, that was a brutal call. It was the harshest possible interpretation on a bad rule. The hand never left the ball. It may have shifted slightly when he brought it down in the end zone, but that can't be a loss of control.

The NFL needs to sort this stuff. This is hardly the only dodgy catch call in recent years.

This almost cost the Steelers a trip to the Super Bowl. This would have almost ended the game, but instead, the Colts maintained possession. Despite the referee saying "he caught the ball," rolls over twice, pops up, and only then bumps the ball out of his hands with his knee.

Should have been an INT + a fumble recovery.

The NFL's explanation for the Jesse James "incomplete" pass includes something like "Ben Roethlisberger completes a pass to Jesse James…" before going on to explain how, despite a lack of evidence that James's hand was not under the ball, it's incomplete.

[Hardspoon]

I think there are a lot of people hiding behind the "call was correct based on the current rule" crap.  But it isn't that simple.  You can call reaching for the goal line a "football move", or say his "initial contact with the ground" was "survived", or a lot of other ways to say that by any subjective measure, that's a catch.

It makes no sense to me that it was overturned.  Maybe upheld if called incorrectly at first...but not overturned.