Chris Speilman sues Ohio State & IMG

[saevel25]

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2017/07/83547/chris-spielman-on-ohio-state-lawsuit-its-the-right-thing-to-do

This is a bit old, but it seems like the issue of paying college players is coming to a tipping point.

If anyone knows anything about Chris Spielman, he is not doing this for his own image. He believes that players should have control of their likeness after they leave college football and be compensated for it. You also have Archie Griffin who is named as a plaintiff as well. Archie has basically been the ambassador for Ohio State Football for over 35 years. This guy bleeds scarlet and gray. He would not sign his name to this if he didn't think it was a cause worth fighting.

I think this is just a stepping stone for the big issue of college athletes being paid.

I personally, think that they can make it work. Maybe the way to do this is with how Univ. Florida has their athletic department. The Florida Gator's Athletic department is actually a separate entity from the school. It's classified as a non-profit corporation. All the revenues from their sports stay inside the this corporation to improve the athletic department. The main issue is Title-IX. No matter what, this will be a big blow to college sports. This is because the sports are linked to a public college.

If I had to guess, the schools can create a corporation like Florida Athletics. I can see it going this route because they can escape Title-IX if they are a private institution and receive no federal funding. They can then provide the students with a private interest free loan, or partial loan. They can also provide the students with housing assistance. They can also pay the athletes.

I know people will say, "The athletes get paid, they get a free tuition." Here is what I say to that.

Student A: Full ride scholarship for academics. They get a part time job or full time job. They are able to study, and get some side money.
Student B: Full ride football athletic scholarship. They are required to spend upwards of 40 hours a week practicing and preparing for their games. They get no money for it.

Why should Student A be able to work a side job and make money when Student B is working a side job for the school and not getting paid?

 

[David in FL]

Florida and OSU, the two most arrogant, narcissistic schools and fans in the country.  Why am I not surprised?   

[saevel25]

35 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Florida and OSU, the two most arrogant, narcissistic schools and fans in the country.  Why am I not surprised?   

Florida isn't being sued. 

61-6 over the past 5 years. We kinda back it up ?

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

Florida and OSU, the two most arrogant, narcissistic schools and fans in the country.  Why am I not surprised?   

This issue could have been brought against nearly any major football- or basketball-playing college in the country. The reason it was Ohio State is that Spielman played at Ohio State. 

It's sort of the next logical step after the Ed O'Bannon suit that ended the EA Sports college sports games. Pissed me off at the time, because I enjoyed those.

 

[JonMA1]

http://www.air.org/sites/default/files/downloads/report/Academic-Spending-vs-Athletic-Spending.pdf

This report is old, but I found it interesting.

I no longer have a stake in this argument as my sons are finished with school. Between the debt they owe and the smaller portion that we took on as parents, it will be a while before we're all through paying it off.

If some of that debt went towards supporting an athletic department, so be it. That's the system as it is. But I have zero concern about whether college athletes get paid to play a game, especially when compared to those non-athletes who lack any sort of support system for getting through college, for example.

D1 college athletics may be the most important thing in the world to some, but to others it has little value.

[saevel25]

9 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

But I have zero concern about whether college athletes get paid to play a game, especially when compared to those non-athletes who lack any sort of support system for getting through college, for example.

Yet, a student with an academic scholarship can easily use their abilities to get an internship, a side job, and make money while still going to school and receive that scholarship. What if an academic scholarship student has a part time job with the athletic department? How is their situation different from the student athlete? It isn't. They both get scholarships, and they both make money for the school.

---

If the University of Michigan suddenly puts up Tom Brady posters with out his knowledge you'd be damn sure that Tom Brady would have his agent or who ever runs that side of his business. Tom Brady is in the business of using his likeness to make him a lot of money. That he would reach out with strong words to say, no you can't do that. What is the difference between Tom Brady and a student athlete? Why does being a student athlete prohibit them from making money off their likeness? Just because they happen to go to college? That is really a ridiculous reason.

[JonMA1]

Maybe I'm missing the big picture here.

If you'e saying they should be able to receive money from outside the universities, I'm 100% fine with that. But if you're saying the schools should pay them in addition to the scholarships, not so much. I'd only be ok with that if colleges were making a net profit from athletics. From what I understand, that isn't the case.

My only concern with any of this is the cost of tuition going higher.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

Maybe I'm missing the big picture here.

If you'e saying they should be able to receive money from outside the universities, I'm 100% fine with that. But if you're saying the schools should pay them in addition to the scholarships, not so much. I'd only be ok with that if colleges were making a net profit from athletics. From what I understand, that isn't the case.

My only concern with any of this is the cost of tuition going higher.

They would be paid the same way the schools get money from selling jerseys. It's not really an extra cost to the school academically. I'm some instances the athletic departments are independent of the school.

Whats the difference between a student on academic scholarship who works for the school and recieves fair compensation for their service?

[JonMA1]

33 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Whats the difference between a student on academic scholarship who works for the school and recieves fair compensation for their service?

I understand your point and I understand that classes, practices and studying leave little time for a part time job. I suppose it comes down to how important college sports are to the overall reason colleges exist. You likely see more importance in college athletics than I do.

College tuition continues to climb as does housing. The vast majority of students receive very little aid, much less a full ride. Those receiving academic scholarships are required to maintain a high GPA and, depending on their curriculum, it's pretty demanding. I'm not sure what GPA athletes are required to maintain, but keeping 3.6 in advanced science classes doesn't leave that much time for work either.

I'll admit right away that I'm out of my scope of knowledge on this, so bear with me. The jobs I think you're taking about that non-athletes work on campus are either necessary expenses for the college, such as  office work and grounds maintenance, or they work for profit centers such as eateries, catering or the campus bookstores. If you're talking about co-op or internship, depending on the profession, some of those don't pay the student anything and are sometimes considered a class the student must pay tuition costs for. 

If you're talking about paying athletes $10 an hour to practice sports, I don't know... not unless the sport is truly making a profit for the University. Otherwise, I see that driving up the cost of tuition for others who care more about having a decent job when they graduate than the win/loss record of the school's football team.

Here's an idea... take the money that the boosters are already giving athletes illegally and make it legal.

Really Matt, as I said in my original reply, I no longer have a stake in this. But I do see how absolutely necessary a college degree has become in corporate America.

[saevel25]

14 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

If you're talking about paying athletes $10 an hour to practice sports, I don't know... not unless the sport is truly making a profit for the University. Otherwise, I see that driving up the cost of tuition for others who care more about having a decent job when they graduate than the win/loss record of the school's football team.

Just on the TV Network deal for The BigTen Network, 

http://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/the-big-tens-new-tv-deal-puts-it-into-the-lead-may-provide-a-competitive-edge.html

Quote

The league’s new TV deal kicks in later this year, a reported $2.6 billion package over six years. The Cedar Rapids-Gazette reported that per-school payouts are conservatively estimated to top $43 million in 2017-18 and could top out at $54 million per school at the end of the contract.

Ohio State brought in about 170.8 million in revenue, and spends 166.8 million on expenses for their athletic department. It is totally self sufficient. The primary cost to the athletic department is athletic staff pay and benefits, and coaching pay and benefits. http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2017/03/ohio_state_buckeyes_sports_mon.html

Ohio State brings in over 6.2 billion in revenues, and spends 5.7 billion, https://www.osu.edu/osutoday/stuinfo.php

There is plenty of room to pay the athletes if you cut back on paying the staff and coaches. The only reason the coaches are getting multi-million dollar contracts is because the money has to go somewhere. 

The school can't find a way to pay the athletes? If anything they should get a sizable cut from any athletic apparel sold with their number on it. 

[JonMA1]

9 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Just on the TV Network deal for The BigTen Network, 

http://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/the-big-tens-new-tv-deal-puts-it-into-the-lead-may-provide-a-competitive-edge.html

Ohio State brought in about 170.8 million in revenue, and spends 166.8 million on expenses for their athletic department. It is totally self sufficient. The primary cost to the athletic department is athletic staff pay and benefits, and coaching pay and benefits. http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2017/03/ohio_state_buckeyes_sports_mon.html

Ohio State brings in over 6.2 billion in revenues, and spends 5.7 billion, https://www.osu.edu/osutoday/stuinfo.php

There is plenty of room to pay the athletes if you cut back on paying the staff and coaches. The only reason the coaches are getting multi-million dollar contracts is because the money has to go somewhere. 

The school can't find a way to pay the athletes? If anything they should get a sizable cut from any athletic apparel sold with their number on it. 

As I've said, if a program is completely self-sufficient, that's a different story. I agree with you in this instance, there's no reason why a small amount of that profit can't go towards the athletes.

Thanks. I didn't research it thoroughly. The small amount of information I read indicated athletic departments being an expense.

[Jack Watson]

One of the biggest signs of the stupidity in our world is what athletes earn.

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

One of the biggest signs of the stupidity in our world is what athletes earn.

So where should the money go? 

It is the fans who buy the tickets, watch the games, buy the merchandise. If you have a close system, then the money has to be distributed some how. If you don't like them being paid that much then don't support any of the teams. 

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

One of the biggest signs of the stupidity in our world is what athletes earn.

How do you figure?

They're paid what the market will bear.

[InTheRough]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

Those receiving academic scholarships are required to maintain a high GPA and, depending on their curriculum, it's pretty demanding. I'm not sure what GPA athletes are required to maintain, but keeping 3.6 in advanced science classes doesn't leave that much time for work either.

The athletes are required to maintain a high level of performance on the field as well as a (lower) GPA.  The majority of scholarships are 1 year scholarships meaning if you don't perform, get hurt, or if a new coach steps in and wants to take the team in a different direction you can lose your scholarship.

I'm not necessarily a fan of the athletes being directly paid by the schools but I would like to see the restrictions on what they can and cannot receive from the schools loosened and the athletes to be able to make money off of their own likeness.   It's the epitome of stupid that a star football player can't sell signed picture of themselves but no other student on a scholarship would lose their scholarship for doing the same thing.  

[JonMA1]

18 minutes ago, InTheRough said:

but I would like to see the restrictions on what they can and cannot receive from the schools loosened and the athletes to be able to make money off of their own likeness.   It's the epitome of stupid that a star football player can't sell signed picture of themselves but no other student on a scholarship would lose their scholarship for doing the same thing.  

I agree with letting them make money in anyway that doesn't hurt others. I never realized that's what the debate had been about. 

Those rules seem archaic. So much has changed over the years in regards to international sports such as the olympics. Seems like the NCAA could loosen up a bit and nothing bad would happen as a result.

---

A little off topic, but regarding scholarships and losing them... my oldest son received a small academic scholarship called the "Michigan Promise Scholarship" because of his ACT scores. It was like $1000 per year. The state did away with it in his freshman year as one of the cuts to balance the state budget.

The irony... it had the word "Promise" in it, Lol. That's the way things go when they balance the budget, but I felt bad for him.

[Jack Watson]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

How do you figure?

They're paid what the market will bear.

Exactly.  That's what I mean.  I like Steph Curry fine.  Seems a good guy and all but is throwing a ball into a round metal ring really worth that kinda cash?

Look how many people pay what they do for a jersey with another mans name embroidered on it and some league official tag.  I just think it's silly.  I like sports like most do,  but the players are not curing cancer or finding new renewable energy sources.

I view them like skilled tradesman in a sense.  Obviously not a perfect analogy but that's my view.  

The market is absolutely my point.  People spend so much for the privilege of being there when so and so sports figure hits the homer un or sinks a three pointer as time runs out.

Now on topic,  I would be pissed about a college controlling me to the point I couldn't use my image on my own time as I wished for income but conversely without the exposure given by the college based on my skill would I be able to do that?  As far as the topic goes I really have no opinion.

Athletes in full ride mode have done well and if they take advantage are in a good position to begin life well.  The bottom line is there is stupid money in athletics as a whole and really what's the difference from the gladiators?  Is it really different?  In a few more years maybe we will pay to watch fighting to the death I dunno.  Pretty extreme twist to add but I think there's a small kernel of truth in there people should consider.

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

So where should the money go? 

It is the fans who buy the tickets, watch the games, buy the merchandise. If you have a close system, then the money has to be distributed some how. If you don't like them being paid that much then don't support any of the teams. 

Imo imo the real question is where does the money come from?

 

[jamo]

I support college athletes being allowed to collectively bargain for payment from schools. If the school's (and athletic department's) finances dictate that what the athletes are asking for will put the program in the red, then I support the school cutting the program. But if the athletes are making millions upon millions for the school in profit (which aren't being funneled into academics anyway) then I support the athletes being able to bargain for that money.