Here is How to move the hip

[Peter_b]

That is just what I am trying to explain here. You can translate the hip position from feet together drill where it is a 100 times easier to do right. 

Video works now. This is my hip position from the closed feet drill after the side step in P6. I think its pretty good for someone who is not able to open his hips at impact. I now understand on how to do so. 

[Vinsk]

20 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

That is just what I am trying to explain here. You can translate the hip position from feet together drill where it is a 100 times easier to do right. 

Video works now. This is my hip position from the closed feet drill after the side step in P6. I think its pretty good for someone who is not able to open his hips at impact. I now understand on how to do so. 

To show hip rotation I think DTL may be better. In this photo your hips look pretty square to me, lead hip may be bit back, hard to tell. Did you 'feel' your hips to be open on that position?

[Peter_b]

Yeah for me its pretty open. Check the video some posts above where you see how I sidestep. 

[mdl]

I like the feel of keeping it loose and flowing while keeping the the club on plane with the face getting back to square from P6 to P8 that you seem to be going for on your video.  For some players I could totally see that as a useful drill to get the feel for that flow through/around at impact.  But I disagree that the sidestep position you show is one you actually want at P6.  Look at face on views of any great player and their hips are significantly more forward, down the target line, at that position than yours are.  And most of them are probably a good bit more open as well.

[Peter_b]

Oh Ill get better at this! I just understood how the hip has to go where. 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Peter_b said:

Lets see if I can make people understand on how to rotate the hip correctly.

Before you do that, it's gonna be helpful to you if you establish some credibility. A 5 handicap and 31 posts (many of which are in this topic) doesn't really help you.

4 hours ago, Peter_b said:

And I am not lying, I do really think your Tripod thing, like the bucket thing of other pros does not help understand what there is to do with the hip.

It's a lie to say it helped nobody.

4 hours ago, Peter_b said:

I dont think I insulted you.

You did, and your fellow members, too. Just a poor tactic to take here, man.

1 hour ago, Peter_b said:

My opinion is that it is not the lateral movement to the target but to bring the hip in the right position, is the key to a good swing.

That doesn't really mean anything. Different people will have different things that they need to do.

1 hour ago, Peter_b said:

The lateral movement is a necessity as the feet are apart.

The lateral movement doesn't occur just because the feet are apart, nor does the feet being apart make it a "necessity." I don't agree with that at all, unless you're being very unclear in what you mean somehow.

1 hour ago, Peter_b said:

You will find a lot of longhitters hitting 300y and more in the first group and and a lot of arms swingers, goat humpers and hand flippers where driving is limited to about 250y-280y.

Please try to resist just making things up. The arms are the dominant source of power in the golf swing. EVERY good golfer is an "arms swinger" to a large extent.

1 hour ago, Peter_b said:

In fact my method is extremely easy to do with a strong feedback that lateral movement, with swinging the hip around the left femur like a western-door, is not the way to go and a strong feedback on how it is to be done. 

Dude… who teaches players to move the hips around the left femur? Not I.

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You do realize that all good players (many, many videos showing this) show the player making a lateral movement of the hips as the first move down and not just rotating. This is not 'opinion', it's plain fact. What drill you think provides that feel the best is your own opinion. But to say 'lateral movement..is not the way to go..is unfortunately incorrect 100%. .

@Vinsk gets it. He's capable of looking at video and understanding things.

57 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

Never said its not the way to go, read my answer to iacas. You absolutely have to do the lateral movement when the feet are apart.

Yeah, this is where stuff starts to get off the rails.

You criticized a topic about the lateral movement, have made many comments denigrating it, and then say things like "yeah, it's necessary because the feet are apart."

To which @Vinsk has a pretty good response:

52 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Right. And I, nor anybody else, plays golf with feet together.

Yep.

And that's not at all to say you can't do a DRILL like this. But you've gone beyond just "hey, here's a thing that I think will help, and it's an overlooked part of how the hips move on the downswing."

49 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

That is just what I am trying to explain here. You can translate the hip position from feet together drill where it is a 100 times easier to do right.

This is where being an actual instructor pays off. A few quick comments:

• Drills don't work for everyone.
• The drill removes a part of how the hips actually work in the downswing - the lateral translation.
• You're misunderstanding things I've shared here.
• You're insulting the people you're ostensibly trying to help.
• You're making up stuff re: "arms swingers" and so on.
• Translating something from a drill doesn't always work, either.

8 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

Yeah for me its pretty open. Check the video some posts above where you see how I sidestep. 

Really?

Here's what I see:

• A little flip. You're not achieving inline impact here
• Your hips are significantly less open than Rory's. Well below Tour average, too.
• Your hips aren't forward. Rory's are (lines drawn at A4… and with a driver, where it's less important to get them forward).
• Your knees are still bent.
• Your shoulders/torso remain more closed than Tour averages.

What are we too stupid to see, here, @Peter_b?

I don't care about your feels. I'm glad they work for you, but since we're not just talking about YOUR swing, let's talk about what actually happens in the golf swing, and then judge any drills based on whether they help players achieve that better.

43 minutes ago, mdl said:

I like the feel of keeping it loose and flowing while keeping the the club on plane with the face getting back to square from P6 to P8 that you seem to be going for on your video.  For some players I could totally see that as a useful drill to get the feel for that flow through/around at impact.  But I disagree that the sidestep position you show is one you actually want at P6.  Look at face on views of any great player and their hips are significantly more forward, down the target line, at that position than yours are.  And most of them are probably a good bit more open as well.

Bingo.

[Peter_b]

You are overreacting iacas but alright  Ill stop here.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

You are overreacting iacas but alright  Ill stop here.

I'm not doing any such thing.

I'm trying to determine what it is you're trying to say, and ultimately, whether it's correct.

Right now what you're saying isn't passing simple scrutiny.

[Peter_b]

alright

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

alright

At least you're scratch at playing the victim.

[Peter_b]

Wow I really insulted you, sorry for that, wasn’t intended. I wanted to share a finding I thought could help others with my problem. It went south. That’s about it, I don't have more to say. Won´t happen again.

[iacas]

51 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

Wow I really insulted you, sorry for that, wasn’t intended.

You did. I don't really care - it doesn't affect my life one way or the other - it's just not a great way to start the topic here.

You insulted members, too, and said that nobody had been helped by a topic I shared. That too doesn't affect my life, but it certainly affects the likelihood that they'll hear what you have to say.

51 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

I wanted to share a finding I thought could help others with my problem.

And when questioned or shown things that conflict, you played the victim and ran away.

---

Again, is there likely some value in doing the drill and feeling the rotation of the hips, too?

But your "you heard it here first" (which uses a drill used by many, many people before you) has some gaping holes in it, and you're unable or unwilling to close them, or explain them, or even discuss them.

And no, again, I don't teach turning around the left femur. I'm still not sure what that's about.

[Peter_b]

And when questioned or shown things that conflict, you played the victim and ran away.

I just don't want to be part of a conversation like this. I am said to insult which I still don't understand why and when I want to back off I am playing victim. 

Never said you teach the swingdoor hip around the left femur, that is what most of us bad hippers do and you are trying to fix. Never said that you teach something wrong. Never said the Tripod drill is wrong. 

My problem with the hip is hauting me for 33 years. So frustrating to know that you are not using an engine in the swing, that you could hit it a 50y more if you understood. I even flew to DanC to Jacks from Europe. You can check it on his site. You will see a bucket between my legs. He could fix it for a short time indirectly. No one could ever explain to me what the hip motion was about how it had to work. Then I saw the GGswingtips squat and that was maybe the closest explanation to what there is to be done with the hip. The problem with the GG squat is a timing one and you can squat in so many positions with so many possible hip positions.

So yeah "you heard it here first" was to put it sensational. I found a way to show someone how to position his hip in the downswing. That is something I have never read or seen in hundreds of books and thousands of youtube flics and was never taught in countless Pro lessons.  For me it was sensational and I wanted to share that. "you heard it here first"

Ill just turn OFF notification now as you cant delete your account here.

Again sorry for any bad feelings.

[Jack Watson]

The title of the post was presumptuous to say the least.

HERES WHAT TO DO WITH THE HIPS.

Come on.  I am all for theory and knowledge and sharing but many many great golfers have differences in this aspect if analyzed in detail.

Pretty much Hogan wrote.

"THERE MUST BE ENOUGH LATERAL MOTION TO TRANSFER THE WEIGHT TO THE LEFT FOOT"

Imo there's many variations. 

 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Peter_b said:

Again sorry for any bad feelings.

I've got no bad feelings. Again, I don't take this stuff that seriously. What some guy who's never talked with me or never met me thinks or says has little bearing on my life. I'm happy when I'm able to help people like that, but when they say things that I take negatively, I may comment on them but that's where it ends.

7 hours ago, Peter_b said:

Ill just turn OFF notification now as you cant delete your account here.

Forums don't let you due to the massive disruption it would cause.

7 hours ago, Peter_b said:

I am said to insult which I still don't understand why and when I want to back off I am playing victim.

This is insulting:

On 8/9/2017 at 0:39 AM, Peter_b said:

Hi iacas, I hoped you would take part in this conversation. I know your thread with the tripod and right knee to it. It is partly why this thread exists. I was not able to learn the correct hip motion by your findings nor could any of the arm swingers, short hitters, goat humpers, flippers on the following 28 pages. 

Is it over the top? Not at all. But it's insulting, to both me and the members who HAVE gotten better.

---

It's very simple.

You started the topic with "Here is how to move the hips" and "you heard it here first". Neither of those things turned out to be true. They were sensationalistic, by your own admission.

7 hours ago, Peter_b said:

So yeah "you heard it here first" was to put it sensational. I found a way to show someone how to position his hip in the downswing. That is something I have never read or seen in hundreds of books and thousands of youtube flics and was never taught in countless Pro lessons.  For me it was sensational and I wanted to share that. "you heard it here first"

The proper hip motion is both lateral and rotational. And it's not just "lateral" "because we have two feet."

At the end of the day, I object to much of what you actually wrote about the mechanics you espoused. That's the main thing, and that's the thing from which you're running away - defending your position. It does not help that you came in with the topic title and first few sentences that you did, or that you had the small insults, but at the end of the day… I don't agree with what you said about the golf swing itself.

Do the hips rotate in the golf swing? Absolutely. The tripod (i.e. "hips slide forward") topic is not about that part, though - it's about the lateral part.

And you didn't even, in doing the drill, get your hips very far open.

The mechanics are why I disagreed with you. I couldn't care less about the insults or victim stuff. I mentioned that to you as it's a poor choice of tactics, but it didn't affect me beyond that.

[dchoye]

I didn't read all the posts

For me I play better when I feel like I'm turning my hips and the lateral hip movement happens after ball  impact as a result of a "pulling" feeling from my upper body than purposely shifting my hips laterally    I get this feeling primarily from the driver swing 

With the irons it feels like I'm turning "in a box " My hips do move laterally but not as much as a the driver and I feel more of an upward as well as a lateral pull with my upper body

[iacas]

@Peter_b, I used the feet together, butt as a counterweight drill today, as I do two or three times per year with my students.

For his backswing. He swayed his hips back, and getting him to feel the rotation and his butt sticking out a little "toward the target" helped him pivot better on the backswing.

[BaconNEggs]

I like the feet together drill to help stop swaying and complete a turn. When I do the drill and import that feel into my full swing, what feels like my hips swinging open to start the swing is in actuality more of my core and upper body turning (hips are turning to some extent as well but not as much as I perceive). Otherwise I tend to swing back with the arms, sway, have a lack of total lack of width, hips probably only open 15 degrees, shoulders on a flat almost inverse shoulder plane (left shoulder going up), and I end up coming way over the top. The feel is my hips open up very quickly but the reality on film is they actually appear to slightly lag my upper body, but they do end up getting probably around 40-45 degrees open by the end. In my mind's eye they're open more like 70 degrees.  

 

I think it just goes to show you how potentially misleading personal feels can be. What you think feels like a certain body part moving might not even be that part at all, or may be only partially accurate. I can isolate my shoulders in drills or stretches, but during a full swing consciously trying to turn my shoulders gets me moving my arms (without much shoulder turn); consciously trying to turn my hips gets me a better shoulder turn, plus hip turn, but not as much as I think.