Impact of lessons....

[Lihu]

12 hours ago, bones75 said:

So my buddy just texted me.  He played a double round today after playing hookey at work (im guessing his wife may now regret him getting lessons, as the dude is super golf-amped up right now).  He shot a 103 and a 90.  Him and his coach are truly a good match.  I'm super stoked for him, and look forward to not giving him 12 strokes a side anymore (it just gets silly when u have a playing partner who is competitive yet u guys have highly disparate handicaps.

Nice! Something is starting to click for sure.

Your buddy and I started within a year of each other. Lessons were definitely a must as I'm also not naturally gifted at this game at all. I think I shot a 108 the first time I was out, but that was with cheating. For the next 2 years pretty much the same thing. Then I started on this site, and things started to change. I only worked with good instructors after the first lesson here. Improvement came slow at first, but once I figured out the proper sequencing to maximize my swing speed everything changed. It was like an overnight thing too, and only took 2 months to transition from a bogey swing. So, something clicked. I still play pretty terrible, but at least my best rounds are pretty decent.

Also, it's not like I'm some uncoordinated mushy dork or anything. With all other endeavors, it's never taken me this much time and effort to learn to get to a reasonable level.

[rehmwa]

20 hours ago, bones75 said:

You underestimate my stubbornness.  In the end, I'm basically no different from my friend I talk about in my OP.  Example: I have a chronic issue with over swinging on my backswing. Typical lesson with my coach:

 

I spent and entire winter lengthening my backswing at the golf dome thinking it would help me generate more distance.

I've now been drilling the last year and a half shortening my swing to improve my contact.  It's not easy.

I really hate this game    ; ) 

 

 

post comments - 1 - yes, lengthening my swing did help.  but, strangely enough shortening my backswing also lengthened my distance even more, and I also get better hits a higher percentage than ever.....  Apparently, my issue wasn't power, it was contact.

.............I wonder if a good instructor could have pointed me in the right direction in the beginning......

Edited September 9, 2017 by rehmwa

[Keith White]

On ‎08‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 6:06 AM, bones75 said:

@rehmwa I do something kinda similar, but w/ more frequency.

I always call my coach when I'm struggling and stop when I feel I'm "back" or even had some gains, whether that be after 1 or 6 lessons.  But I've probably had 30+ lessons over 10 years of play.  The annoying part is that I should just record what my coach says and play it back... it feels like he gives me the same damn lesson at least half the time, I just fall into the same bad habits over and over again, but can't seem to recognize I'm doing it.  What does Einstein call insanity again?

Same thing happened to me, at my lesson this week the Pro said my grip was a bit strong.  I smiled and said "you have told me that before" and to be honest I kinda knew anyway.  I took my medicine and got the hands on better and yesterday at the range I was striping missiles down the line for fun.

The Pro was honest about this, stating that's why an occasional lesson is good because it's human nature to slip off the good habits, and I know it does me good to have a "swing review" not to change it, just to tidy things back up.  Think how much time most Pro's spend under the eyes of coaches, constantly analysing and keeping things on track.  We don't have that luxury, but a relaxed refresher can be useful.

I think the right coach is important, and you have to make it really clear what you want from your lesson, it's your money.

[bones75]

On 9/9/2017 at 4:50 AM, Keith White said:

The Pro was honest about this, stating that's why an occasional lesson is good because it's human nature to slip off the good habits, and I know it does me good to have a "swing review" not to change it, just to tidy things back up.  Think how much time most Pro's spend under the eyes of coaches, constantly analysing and keeping things on track.  We don't have that luxury, but a relaxed refresher can be useful.

Agreed.  I remember watching a video where Mcilroy was saying his routine starts with him consciously thinking about his stance. He said that one would think a pro golfer would have these things as 2nd nature because they've done it so many times, but emphasized how easy it is for all golfers to fall out of the most basic of good habits.

[Lihu]

3 hours ago, bones75 said:

Agreed.  I remember watching a video where Mcilroy was saying his routine starts with him consciously thinking about his stance. He said that one would think a pro golfer would have these things as 2nd nature because they've done it so many times, but emphasized how easy it is for all golfers to fall out of the most basic of good habits.

That's pretty much why there are so many golf instructors. We need them to watch what we're doing wrong. . .video helps, but it's always nice to have someone watch or watch your videos.

[Keith White]

4 hours ago, Lihu said:

That's pretty much why there are so many golf instructors. We need them to watch what we're doing wrong. . .video helps, but it's always nice to have someone watch or watch your videos.

Video - the easy way out?  So much is there in an instant and we can load the brain with a ton of conflicting info, all shot in 2D and subject to cameraman angles etc. I would say 90% of the tips I have watched have done me no good at all.  The simple ones, like trying a five iron for a long chip and run have been useful.  But the full swing instructions usually do more harm than good in my honest opinion.

[Lihu]

3 hours ago, Keith White said:

Video - the easy way out?  So much is there in an instant and we can load the brain with a ton of conflicting info, all shot in 2D and subject to cameraman angles etc. I would say 90% of the tips I have watched have done me no good at all.  The simple ones, like trying a five iron for a long chip and run have been useful.  But the full swing instructions usually do more harm than good in my honest opinion.

That gets to my point, actually. Good instruction helps, bad instruction as you've experienced I only makes things worse.

If you have bad instructors in your area, try out evolvr. I'm not affiliated in any way with this site, nor paid by this site, but it's had a lot of success. My son and I have had good experiences with evolvr type of instruction through this site. My daughter might sign up for it as well depending upon her seriousness to golf.

Video instruction with good instructors will help you as well.

[golfingfiend]

some friends and I haven't taken any lessons to date. it is as if we want to work out who is the most macho and naturally talented (me, obviously)

We all playoff handicaps between 15 and 20 (i know, spectacular golf eh! ) and have been stuck in this rut for quite some time. Ridiculous really how none of us take lessons and expect to improve drastically from playing on average once a week.

I know others who picked up the game some time after I did, and with a few decent lessons and practice sessions, have reached and surpassed my  "lofty"heights already.
 

Conclusion: Lessons help a lot. as long as it is with the right coach/teacher. but practice between lessons is where the real improvement lies.

Cheers

[Keith White]

7 hours ago, Lihu said:

That gets to my point, actually. Good instruction helps, bad instruction as you've experienced I only makes things worse.

If you have bad instructors in your area, try out evolvr. I'm not affiliated in any way with this site, nor paid by this site, but it's had a lot of success. My son and I have had good experiences with evolvr type of instruction through this site. My daughter might sign up for it as well depending upon her seriousness to golf.

Video instruction with good instructors will help you as well.

I think I may have been a little unclear, apologies, my days of video instruction are over but thank you.  My instructor is very good and I guess I was more trying to point out the dangers of hours of online "do it like this" which some golfers consume by the ton ( I certainly did ) and it always seemed to send me off on tangents and extremes.  I'm a happy 50 year old golfer and bogey golf will do me fine.  I have a decent swing and my instructor is there to help me brush up a bit when I think he will help, and it does. Best regards. 

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, Keith White said:

I think I may have been a little unclear, apologies, my days of video instruction are over but thank you.  My instructor is very good and I guess I was more trying to point out the dangers of hours of online "do it like this" which some golfers consume by the ton ( I certainly did ) and it always seemed to send me off on tangents and extremes.  I'm a happy 50 year old golfer and bogey golf will do me fine.  I have a decent swing and my instructor is there to help me brush up a bit when I think he will help, and it does. Best regards. 

That makes sense. A good instructor will get you a long way, especially if you are on friendly terms with him. Cheers.

 

[cutchemist42]

I've reached the point where I cant figure out why Im shooting 2-3 tee shots OBs every hole for the past 2 months using ym driver, and intend to finally get a lesson to hopefully make the last 1.5 mont of golf more enjoyable. Its reached a point where I dont even see the ball in the air when I hit it, thats how erratic it is.

I play bogey golf on par3s, and can play bogey golf on par4s when I put my driver away. If I use my driver I usually get a 8-12 on par4s.

I might have done it sooner but the cost has always scared me, but I now realize I've been wasting more money going it alone.

Part of what also scared me was paying money for a bad instructor, but it seems the guy I picked has a good rep.

Edited September 12, 2017 by cutchemist42

[Keith White]

5 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

I've reached the point where I cant figure out why Im shooting 2-3 tee shots OBs every hole for the past 2 months using ym driver, and intend to finally get a lesson to hopefully make the last 1.5 mont of golf more enjoyable. Its reached a point where I dont even see the ball in the air when I hit it, thats how erratic it is.

I play bogey golf on par3s, and can play bogey golf on par4s when I put my driver away. If I use my driver I usually get a 8-12 on par4s.

I might have done it sooner but the cost has always scared me, but I now realize I've been wasting more money going it alone.

Part of what also scared me was paying money for a bad instructor, but it seems the guy I picked has a good rep.

Hope it goes well.  I think you have made a wise choice.

[Midpack]

On 9/7/2017 at 3:15 PM, nevets88 said:

An important corollary to take lessons is to take them from someone who knows what they're doing. It sounds like he found someone good so good for him. 

I totally agree with taking lessons from a qualified pro. I had to go through one who made my full swing and scoring worse, but I stuck with it for six weeks to 'give her recommendations a chance' as I know change usually takes time. Fortunately I then moved on to a pro who has helped me immensely, and I plan to work with him into next season at  least. Maybe others are, but I am just not capable of accurate self diagnosis. I don't want amateurs or YouTube monkeying with my swing. YMMV

Edited September 12, 2017 by Midpack

[WUTiger]

Instructions don't help if the golfer doesn't practice and reinforce positive swing changes.

Some golf instructors have started giving students homework to do before the next lesson. The golfers have to accomplish so many practice/play sessions on their own.

As one pro said, "I got sick of giving people the same lesson over and over again, every six weeks."

[dzclarkcpa]

I have started working with a new instructor (probably 5 weeks ago). He asked me pretty early in our discussions if I was willing (and able) to spend the time on the range necessary to make a swing change. This happened before he ever saw me swing a club. I was honest and said that I was probably not willing or able to make that time. So we went out and played a 9 hole round. 

After he asked what my goals were. In my case, they are to carry a most a 5 HI (8.1 now). He believes with my swing we can get there, so now it all becomes understanding course management, my tendencies and working from there. I spend a couple of hours of week on Trackman trying to dial in distances in my short game and we discuss the mental side. 

There is no doubt in my mind my swing needs work, but if I am not going to spend the time between lessons making a change (as WU Tiger talks about) why would I expect change. Most people expect the teacher to work miracles. The people I have seen improve, so it by working their butts off. I have too many other commitments, I just want to be a good as I can be.  

 

 

[bones75]

Just an update on my buddy.  He played another double round yesterday.  98 and 89.  6 lessons in over a few months now, after 300 rounds / 7 years of shooting ~110++, he's shot dropped at least 15 strokes looking at his last 6 rounds. He's basically feeling like Tiger right now.  Such a good feeling.

[bones75]

I should also say, that he's never broken 100 (w/o mulligans) prior to a month ago.  And now he's broken 90.  (assuming shooting an 89 on a par 71 counts).

[Antneye]

I am starting to think it is time for me to get a lesson, but I really don't want to waste time with a poor instructor.  If anyone has any recommendations for a good (and affordable) instructor on the South side of Charlotte, N.C. it would be appreciated.

I've been improving thanks to this site, but I may need a little more help than that.  I wish there was a 5SK instructor around here, but I don't see anyone in the area.