Hitting off wrong tee

[Aussiebob43]

When playing in a club competition is there any penalty if players start their game off the 1st tee when they were booked in to play off the 10th tee?

[saevel25]

7 hours ago, Aussiebob43 said:

When playing in a club competition is there any penalty if players start their game off the 1st tee when they were booked in to play off the 10th tee?

There are two situations at play. 

Quote

11-4. Playing from Outside Teeing Ground

a. Match Play

If a player, when starting a hole, plays a ball from outside the teeing ground, there is no penalty, but the opponent may immediately require the player to cancel the stroke and play a ball from within the teeing ground.

b. Stroke Play

If a competitor, when starting a hole, plays a ball from outside the teeing ground, he incurs a penalty of two strokes and must then play a ball from within the teeing ground.

If the competitor makes a stroke from the next teeing ground without first correcting his mistake or, in the case of the last hole of the round, leaves the putting green without first declaring his intention to correct his mistake, he is disqualified.

The stroke from outside the teeing ground and any subsequent strokes by the competitor on the hole prior to his correction of the mistake do not count in his score.

11-5. Playing from Wrong Teeing Ground

The provisions of Rule 11-4 apply.

If the golfer completes the first hole, and tees off on the 2nd hole, then he is disqualified.

Quote

11-5/1

Explanation of "Next Teeing Ground" When Competitors Have Played from Wrong Teeing Ground

Q.In stroke play, two competitors, having completed the 11th hole, played from the 15th tee, completed the hole and played from the 16th tee. Before playing their second shots they realized their mistake, returned to the 12th tee and completed the round. On reporting the incident the competitors were each penalized two strokes, as the Committee interpreted the "next teeing ground" referred to in Rule 11-4b to be that of the 12th hole. Was this correct?

A.No. When the competitors played from the 16th tee, they had played from the "next teeing ground" and could not correct their error. Therefore, they should have been disqualified.

If the golfer completed the first hole, or during the play of the first hole, realized his mistake and proceeded to go to the 10th tee he would only incur a 2 stroke penalty.

Quote

11-5/4

Ball Played from Wrong Teeing Ground in Stroke Play: Error Corrected

Q.In stroke play, after finishing the 10th hole, A and B played from the teeing ground of the 15th hole instead of the 11th hole. They realized their error before completing the 15th hole, returned to the 11th tee and completed the round. What is the ruling?

A.A and B each incurred a penalty of two strokes under Rule 11-4b. They were correct in discontinuing play at the 15th hole and returning to the 11th hole. Strokes played at the 15th hole, when it was played out of order, did not count.

 

[iacas]

Yep. The rules don't take kindly to people who essentially make up their own rules.

The order of the holes to be played is a Committee decision, and a rule.

[Groucho Valentine]

In a club competition? Meh. Ive seen that let go all the time. Not really a big deal there. But In a sanctioned tourney, you're done if you completed the hole. 

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

In a club competition? Meh. Ive seen that let go all the time. Not really a big deal there. But In a sanctioned tourney, you're done if you completed the hole. 

Actually as already posted you're done if you tee off on the next hole.

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, Groucho Valentine said:

In a club competition? Meh. Ive seen that let go all the time. Not really a big deal there. But In a sanctioned tourney, you're done if you completed the hole. 

Why would you think that a club competition was not subject to the Rules of Golf?  Any such event that I've ever played in was by the rules, and that meant all of the rules.  

[NM Golf]

14 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Why would you think that a club competition was not subject to the Rules of Golf?  Any such event that I've ever played in was by the rules, and that meant all of the rules.  

I was thinking the very same thing, my club tournaments follow the rules just as closely as any other competition. Not sure where @Groucho Valentine plays, but if they are that fast and loose with the rules, I wouldn't play there.

Edited November 8, 2017 by NM Golf

[Groucho Valentine]

43 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Why would you think that a club competition was not subject to the Rules of Golf?  Any such event that I've ever played in was by the rules, and that meant all of the rules.  

Im sure it is. Its just that nobody cares. Club tourneys aren't the US Open. Most clubs aren't going to be all super uppity about that kind of thing and possibly lose a member or customer as a result. 

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Im sure it is. Its just that nobody cares. Club tourneys aren't the US Open. Most clubs aren't going to be all super uppity about that kind of thing and possibly lose a member or customer as a result. 

I wouldn't classify enforcement of the rules, all of the rules, for all players, as "super uppity".  I'd be a lot more upset if I found out that the Committee chose to ignore certain infractions by certain players, it brings up the possible appearance of favoritism.  That would be a lot worse than someone actually being penalized for being foolish enough to tee off on the wrong hole.

[Groucho Valentine]

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

I wouldn't classify enforcement of the rules, all of the rules, for all players, as "super uppity".  I'd be a lot more upset if I found out that the Committee chose to ignore certain infractions by certain players, it brings up the possible appearance of favoritism.  That would be a lot worse than someone actually being penalized for being foolish enough to tee off on the wrong hole.

How many clubs actually have functioning committees these days, anyway? What were talking about here is the pro, and a bunch of guys that probably play 75% of their golf at that course. Alot of club tourneys don't have starters, which is how that kind of thing can happen. You're often get sent out strait from the clubhouse. In the situations where I've seen that happen, its been let go as long as they didn't jump in front of anyone else's game. Not a big deal in causal club play. 

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Im sure it is. Its just that nobody cares. Club tourneys aren't the US Open. Most clubs aren't going to be all super uppity about that kind of thing and possibly lose a member or customer as a result. 

Following the rules is not "super uppity."

[DaveP043]

10 hours ago, Aussiebob43 said:

When playing in a club competition is there any penalty if players start their game off the 1st tee when they were booked in to play off the 10th tee?

 

3 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

How many clubs actually have functioning committees these days, anyway? What were talking about here is the pro, and a bunch of guys that probably play 75% of their golf at that course. Alot of club tourneys don't have starters, which is how that kind of thing can happen. You're often get sent out strait from the clubhouse. In the situations where I've seen that happen, its been let go as long as they didn't jump in front of anyone else's game. Not a big deal in causal club play. 

I think we should ask @Aussiebob43, what was the actual situation?  Did the players get a scorecard showing their starting hole?  Were they simply given a verbal directive?  Perhaps there was some other method of indicating the starting hole.  As long as there was a definitive directive, whether verbal or written, the players should be penalized in accordance with the rules.  I can't think of any circumstance when I've played in a competition, even the booziest charity scramble, and didn't know which hole I was supposed to start on.

[Groucho Valentine]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

 

I think we should ask @Aussiebob43, what was the actual situation?  Did the players get a scorecard showing their starting hole?  Were they simply given a verbal directive?  Perhaps there was some other method of indicating the starting hole.  As long as there was a definitive directive, whether verbal or written, the players should be penalized in accordance with the rules.  I can't think of any circumstance when I've played in a competition, even the booziest charity scramble, and didn't know which hole I was supposed to start on.

Last club championship i played in we didn't even get scorecards, we just got them from the mailbox on the first tee and wrote our names in ourselves. There was a whiteboard in the proshop with your tee time on it. Most club tourneys are probably on that level, so its not surprising to me mixups happen. 

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Last club championship i played in we didn't even get scorecards, we just got them from the mailbox on the first tee and wrote our names in ourselves. There was a whiteboard in the proshop with your tee time on it. Most club tourneys are probably on that level, so its not surprising to me mixups happen. 

I've never seen a club championship like that and I'd contest that "most club tourneys are probably on that level."

Your committee is failing you.

[Groucho Valentine]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

I've never seen a club championship like that and I'd contest that "most club tourneys are probably on that level."

Your committee is failing you.

Come down from the mountain and join the rest of us then. Maybe places like Baltusrol or Bedminster have member committees, but most clubs dont have functioning committees anymore. Nobodty has time for that stuff. Its usually just the pro staff.  

[iacas]

Just now, Groucho Valentine said:

Come down from the mountain and join the rest of us then. Maybe places like Baltusrol or Bedminster have member committees, but most clubs dont have functioning committees anymore. Nobodty has time for that stuff. Its usually just the pro staff.  

I'm not on a mountain. The public course two miles from my house runs member tournaments better than your club, it seems.

Hell, the course I first grew up playing, a course which still charges about $18/round for walkers, prints scorecards for all club tournaments any level above their weekly league play (which aren't club organized - they're organized by the various leagues).

[NCGolfer]

46 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Come down from the mountain and join the rest of us then. Maybe places like Baltusrol or Bedminster have member committees, but most clubs dont have functioning committees anymore. Nobodty has time for that stuff. Its usually just the pro staff.  

Not on a mountain here either.  Semi-private course with a men's golf association that functions just fine and our tournaments are run rather professionally and efficiently.  Heck, even when I was at fully public courses I never ran into anything you're describing.  I'd say you are the outlier here.

Sounds like a lack of care or interest by the staff and anyone at the club to make things better.

[DaveP043]

8 minutes ago, NCGolfer said:

Sounds like a lack of care or interest by the staff and anyone at the club to make things better.

I suppose there are some places where the golfers prefer this kind of situation.  No rules, no rulings, no penalties, just play golf any way you choose to.  No expectation that the players should ever actually be involved in the planning or the operation of the events.  Its not for me.